"Sin Tax" OH MY GOSH who can think like this?
and have many "Sin Tax" for gold and fiat?
Topic: Fake News Of The Day: "Bitcoin Mining Is A Growing Environmental Threat" (Read 353 times)
September 20, 2018, 05:26:44 PM
September 20, 2018, 04:06:04 PM
Bitcoin mining is always looking for the cheapest energy available anywhere in the world. It makes no difference if you are mining in America or Asia, you just need the cheapest energy.
Hydroelectricity is the cheapest (or of the cheapest) energy sources available.
All this fake news and misinformation about bitcoin mining is sad.
Bitcoin mining uses as much electricity as Christmas lights decorations.
http://www.coindaily.co/christmas-decorations-consume-as-much-electricity-as-bitcoin-mining/
Hydroelectricity is the cheapest (or of the cheapest) energy sources available.
All this fake news and misinformation about bitcoin mining is sad.
Bitcoin mining uses as much electricity as Christmas lights decorations.
http://www.coindaily.co/christmas-decorations-consume-as-much-electricity-as-bitcoin-mining/
I guess that's true with only mining rig that is used but, how about if you are using multiple mining rig to mine Bitcoin? Is it also the same power usage as Christmas decorations? I know I am not into mining but I was just curious about it and how much is the power consumption on every mining rig or is there any way to lessen it's energy consumption without using hydroelectricity.
September 20, 2018, 03:37:14 PM
This is probably one of those government sponsored researches to make Bitcoin look bad?
It's funny though the damage this kind of propaganda has done to the world of Crypto mining. Very few people want to be recognized as miner these days. Many have gone into hiding. Gone are the days people proudly display their mining hardware on social media. No one wants to be accused of being part environmental terrorism or hunt down by "governments."
It's funny though the damage this kind of propaganda has done to the world of Crypto mining. Very few people want to be recognized as miner these days. Many have gone into hiding. Gone are the days people proudly display their mining hardware on social media. No one wants to be accused of being part environmental terrorism or hunt down by "governments."
September 20, 2018, 09:09:50 AM
At the moment, mining is not very profitable from the point of favor for the miner, because the price of bitcoin has fallen, which means that they are working at a loss.
August 10, 2018, 11:05:15 AM
As I said, the number is quite small at the moment, and I'm not concerned about the implication right now, but with the evolution. Even with the price below 7k$ we still see gear added, for example for me is still profitable to min even with the first generation of s9, not talking about the new inno t2, which means that miners could still burn more energy and still get profit even now.
The problem is that money miners get could double overnight, you can't do that with the world energy.
And what bothers me is this ongoing comparison between bitcoin and the industry, like @Mjadon15 is doing
Can we live with bitcoin? Yes, we can as we did in 2000.
Can we live without cars or steel or plastic? Yes, we can as we did in....2000.... BC...
You are correct here, if Bitcoin will continue to grow, than even with fraction of todays rewards the hashrate and energy consumption will be much higher than it is now. But there's a good chance that we'll have energy supply in the future, maybe thanks to fusion power, maybe there will be a resurgence of atomic power or just some new technologies. And in worst case, Bitcoin's PoW will find some equilibrium due to its game-theoretic nature. In worst case, if PoW will not be able to catch up with network's value due to lack of electric power, then the network might get attacked and it's value will reduce to sustainable level.
I think that comparison is valid because even if we "kill" Bitcoin today, it won't save the planet, so eco-activists should focus more on the bigger problems first.
August 10, 2018, 10:38:51 AM
World's final energy consumption is around 110,000 TWh per year, so Bitcoin's consumption is 0.037% of it. IMO it's still very far away from being an environmental threat on par with transports and industry.
There is one small detail here, final energy consumption is one and electric energy consumption is another thing.
Electric energy generation is just 1/5 of the total energy consumption, we can't just convert every energy source into electric power.
We can't start burning all coal, gas, oil just to produce electric energy, we still have tractors,cars, and smelters to run.
As I said, the number is quite small at the moment, and I'm not concerned about the implication right now, but with the evolution. Even with the price below 7k$ we still see gear added, for example for me is still profitable to min even with the first generation of s9, not talking about the new inno t2, which means that miners could still burn more energy and still get profit even now.
The problem is that money miners get could double overnight, you can't do that with the world energy.
And what bothers me is this ongoing comparison between bitcoin and the industry, like @Mjadon15 is doing
Can we live with bitcoin? Yes, we can as we did in 2000.
Can we live without cars or steel or plastic? Yes, we can as we did in....2000.... BC...
August 09, 2018, 02:03:29 PM
While the future of Bitcoin might be bright, environmentalists don’t think so, and I believe it is safe to call this a beef against the Bticoin/Cryptocurrency industry. My reasons are;
People, in general, seem to accept that industries that are into production causes pollution, but can they wrap their heads around a digital item making pollution? Will they accept that? We have many data centers around the world that house and compute our data, and they run using electricity and require cooling causing a higher need for electricity. Storing data is causing pollution like steel mills and coal mines.
Our largest energy consumers though seem to be steel and iron, refining, basic chemical production, pulp and paper making, metal production (nonferrous) such as aluminum, and nonmetallic minerals (primarily cement). Together these industries account for half of the delivered energy. Bitcoin is a drop in the energy bucket compared to any of these behemoths.
https:/www.tokens24.com/cryptopedia/mining/bitcoin-mining-power-consumption-facts/amp
People, in general, seem to accept that industries that are into production causes pollution, but can they wrap their heads around a digital item making pollution? Will they accept that? We have many data centers around the world that house and compute our data, and they run using electricity and require cooling causing a higher need for electricity. Storing data is causing pollution like steel mills and coal mines.
Our largest energy consumers though seem to be steel and iron, refining, basic chemical production, pulp and paper making, metal production (nonferrous) such as aluminum, and nonmetallic minerals (primarily cement). Together these industries account for half of the delivered energy. Bitcoin is a drop in the energy bucket compared to any of these behemoths.
https:/www.tokens24.com/cryptopedia/mining/bitcoin-mining-power-consumption-facts/amp
August 09, 2018, 01:58:39 PM
The hash rate since then has reached 50 exahash
That's 3 times as much as that or 42TWh... at least!!!!
I don't really understand why people are so fast on dismissing this huge energy consumption as FUD.
This is real, there are at least 3 million S9 or equivalent out there each running at ~ 1400W.
Simple math, no FUD!!!
World's final energy consumption is around 110,000 TWh per year, so Bitcoin's consumption is 0.037% of it. IMO it's still very far away from being environmental threat on par with transports and industry.
Also, the article sounds like FUD because it talks how expensive Bitcoin transactions are, trying to make readers compare them with their regular bank transactions. This is incorrect because Bitcoin transactions are different, especially with Lightning Network when one onchain transaction can lead to countless LN transactions.
If you read and analyze ICO projects,now in fact,now there are a lot of startups associated with alternative energy sources.Most likely, in the near future, the production of all crypto-currencies will be provided with alternative energy sources
If you read and analyze ICO projects, you will know that they are scams. You don't need to create a token every time you start a business, and you don't need to put blockchain into everything.
August 09, 2018, 01:14:52 PM
I totall agree with the topic that it is fake statement that Bitcoin mining is a growing environmental threat because nowadays bitcoin mining has been developing with a good speed and the growth rate is really having some positive impacts on the market and of course i do know that there are some issues of electricity and heating issues which occurs due to mining process but believe me they will soon be removed from the mining process.
August 09, 2018, 07:27:27 AM
If you read and analyze ICO projects,now in fact,now there are a lot of startups associated with alternative energy sources.Most likely, in the near future, the production of all crypto-currencies will be provided with alternative energy sources
August 04, 2018, 05:33:45 PM
How much does the banking system consumes per year?
It's not as easy to calculate as bitcoin energy consumption. That's why everyone attack bitcoin, but not banking system energy consumption.
It's not as easy to calculate as bitcoin energy consumption. That's why everyone attack bitcoin, but not banking system energy consumption.
How many transactions does the global banking system process each day?
Let's go for bitcoin with the number of 200 000 tx /day and 0.3% of the world power consumption.
Assuming, just for laughs that the baking system does 200 million, that would lead proportionally to > 300%
How about we compare the bitcoin power consumption with something that matches it also in usage?
Right now the power is not yet an issue it's somewhere between 0.3-0.4% nothing that can affect global prices yet, but what I'm concerned is what will happen if we experience another pump to 30-40k before the next halving.
Manufacturers have a lot of equipment on stock, there is old gear available also, if a spike happens the energy burned by miners will go instantly beyond 1%.
Public transport in the EU, which is used daily by millions if not hundreds of millions uses 2%, this just doesn't sound right.
And what is worse...what will happen when the rewards will drop to 0.0x?
Fees? Will fees compensate 18 millions $/day?
All that abandoned gear could be picked up by cents/ton and used as in an attack.
There has to be a solution, not PoS (I dislike it more than PoW) but something else. Don't have a clue what or how could it be done but the longer we go this path the harder will be to deal with it.
August 04, 2018, 05:07:28 PM
I don't think that case is so serious, because we are having so much different plans and fabrics, that are really a threat to Environmental. But they are not speaking about them they are speaking about hyping topic of Bitcoin.
August 04, 2018, 04:35:31 PM
No offense but that article is soooo outdated
Quote
He found that the range of electricity consumption was between 6.78 TWh/year and 2.85 TWh/year which gives an average assumed consumption of approximately 4.73 TWh/year.
He relies from data found here:
Nothing bad at first but..the math is done for:
Quote
Therefore the lower bound electricity consumption of the network at 3250 PH/s assuming the best-case scenario of 100% of miners currently running one of the latest 3 most efficient ASICs (at best 0.10 J/GH) is 325 MW or 2.85 TWh/year.
He has later updated it for January 2018
Quote
As of 11 January 2018 (average hash rate of 16200 PH/s):
Lower bound Best guess Upper bound
Energy consumption (TWh/yr) 14.19 18.40 27.4
Lower bound Best guess Upper bound
Energy consumption (TWh/yr) 14.19 18.40 27.4
The hash rate since then has reached 50 exahash
That's 3 times as much as that or 42TWh... at least!!!!
I don't really understand why people are so fast on dismissing this huge energy consumption as FUD.
This is real, there are at least 3 million S9 or equivalent out there each running at ~ 1400W.
Simple math, no FUD!!!
Thanks for your reply
I agree that it's a huge consumption. However, that's the cost to secure the network.
It's the only way to make bitcoin safe against an attack from a country, or something big like that
How much does the banking system consumes per year?
It's not as easy to calculate as bitcoin energy consumption. That's why everyone attack bitcoin, but not banking system energy consumption.
August 04, 2018, 10:52:02 AM
High crypto miner energy consumption could translate to large investment and funding towards so called "zero emissions" and "renewable" energy sources like hydroelectric power.
Bitcoin miners are likely to represent a massive consumer base for industrial hydroelectric power worldwide.
Bitcoin miners are likely to represent a massive consumer base for industrial hydroelectric power worldwide.
All good till here....
This could mean large piles of money are being thrown at hydroelectric power plants which will encourage the construction of more hydroelectric plants.
This is where the problems start.
You just can't go around and build dams like you build gas power plants or nuclear reactors.
You need a huge river, you need elevation and you need a constant debit or you're just going to have to put one incredible dam to balance the water from the rainy season to the dry one, which leads to a lot of money spent., a lot!!!!
And now the real problem.
What if bitcoin reaches 50 000 in November? Or 100 000 by December?
The hashrate continues to go up, meaning that miners are still adding gear even at those prices.
From 40-70 TWh we go to 560-980 Twh and at this point, we're talking about 5% of electric energy production worldwide.
The laws of supply and demand will kick in, gues who are going to be the collateral victims of a rising demand in energy and the supply not keeping with it?
This thing will hit us out of nowhere just like the 20-40$ tx...
Which was also dismissed as FUD just months before it actually happened.
August 04, 2018, 09:03:54 AM
It appears this "study" was funded by a university in Qatar. For those who know the middle easts reputation for oil production, Qatar is one of the oil production capitals of the world. Oil based energy produces emissions and so Qatar claiming about emissions is a bit ironic if not hypocritical.
It actually makes sense to me. Such 'studies' are a good way to try distracting society from the real harm countries like Qatar make on the life of our planet.Bitcoin mining uses as much electricity as Christmas lights decorations.
http://www.coindaily.co/christmas-decorations-consume-as-much-electricity-as-bitcoin-mining/
That's actually a good piece of information! I decided to dig a bit more into electricity consumption though. The current estimated rate of electricity consumption for bitcoin mining per year is 73 TWh (well, throughout the year it went from 15 to 72, actually). This article by coindaily is pretty old, but perhaps it is just that this website on consumption is providing inaccurate data (https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption), because it says that at the time the article got published, estimated energy consumption of btc mining per year was 34 TWh, not less than 6 TWh. This website also estimates btc mining energy consuption to be close to the one of Austria. Even according to this website, though, it is only 0.33% of the total Earth's energy consumption, so it doesn't seem to be a big deal. http://www.coindaily.co/christmas-decorations-consume-as-much-electricity-as-bitcoin-mining/
August 04, 2018, 08:22:34 AM
It is true that BTC mining is currently has a consumption of maybe 1% or less of the total world consumption of electricity, so by just these facts at this point to consider it a danger to the environment is somewhat exaggerated. China is still keep the lead role in BTC mining with some 70% or more hash rate, but most of mining farms are located near the hydroelectric power stations and use this green energy - but it is also true that some use energy from coal-fired power plants which is one of the most important energy sources in China today.
On the other hand hydroelectric power station may be a source of green energy, but they are also dangerous for the environment in a way that when people make them, they change landscape by making a dams which leads to large areas being flooded, people need to be relocated-stay without homes and river life suffer great damage.
Only one example how devastating effect hydroelectric power station have on wild life and people who live by the river and from the river can be seen in Brazil.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/energy/2015/07/150701-hydropower-dam-threatens-amazon-wildlife/
On the other hand hydroelectric power station may be a source of green energy, but they are also dangerous for the environment in a way that when people make them, they change landscape by making a dams which leads to large areas being flooded, people need to be relocated-stay without homes and river life suffer great damage.
Only one example how devastating effect hydroelectric power station have on wild life and people who live by the river and from the river can be seen in Brazil.
Quote
“We’re watching extinction unfold in front of us,” one scientist says of the impact of Brazil’s Balbina Dam.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/energy/2015/07/150701-hydropower-dam-threatens-amazon-wildlife/
August 04, 2018, 06:38:50 AM
I don't really understand why people are so fast on dismissing this huge energy consumption as FUD.
This is real, there are at least 3 million S9 or equivalent out there each running at ~ 1400W.
Simple math, no FUD!!!
This is real, there are at least 3 million S9 or equivalent out there each running at ~ 1400W.
Simple math, no FUD!!!
High crypto miner energy consumption could translate to large investment and funding towards so called "zero emissions" and "renewable" energy sources like hydroelectric power.
Bitcoin miners are likely to represent a massive consumer base for industrial hydroelectric power worldwide. This could mean large piles of money are being thrown at hydroelectric power plants which will encourage the construction of more hydroelectric plants. It could be far better than money being thrown at coal, natural gas or oil powered power plants.
The irony here is this study was funded by a Qatar based university. Qatar being one of the largest producers of oil and natural gas in the entire world means them funding "studies" complaining about emissions is like apple funding a study complaining about there being too many smartphones(iphones) and tablets(ipads) in the world.
I think this is meant to attack the consumer base of hydroelectric power plants as they are a competitor to the oil and natural gas plants which Qatar powers.
August 04, 2018, 01:10:25 AM
"Growing environmental threat" is a very big exaggeration.
I don't see millions of people buying Antminer S9 and I don't see millions of new mining facilities all over the place.The mining growth is really small and ,if there's a problem with energy consumption,the blockchain devs will figure out a way to reduce it.The problem isn't in crypto mining itself.It's in the dirty energy production technology.
I don't see millions of people buying Antminer S9 and I don't see millions of new mining facilities all over the place.The mining growth is really small and ,if there's a problem with energy consumption,the blockchain devs will figure out a way to reduce it.The problem isn't in crypto mining itself.It's in the dirty energy production technology.
August 03, 2018, 06:04:19 PM
Bitcoin mining is always looking for the cheapest energy available anywhere in the world. It makes no difference if you are mining in America or Asia, you just need the cheapest energy.
Hydroelectricity is the cheapest (or of the cheapest) energy sources available.
All this fake news and misinformation about bitcoin mining is sad.
Bitcoin mining uses as much electricity as Christmas lights decorations.
http://www.coindaily.co/christmas-decorations-consume-as-much-electricity-as-bitcoin-mining/
Hydroelectricity is the cheapest (or of the cheapest) energy sources available.
All this fake news and misinformation about bitcoin mining is sad.
Bitcoin mining uses as much electricity as Christmas lights decorations.
http://www.coindaily.co/christmas-decorations-consume-as-much-electricity-as-bitcoin-mining/
No offense but that article is soooo outdated
Quote
He found that the range of electricity consumption was between 6.78 TWh/year and 2.85 TWh/year which gives an average assumed consumption of approximately 4.73 TWh/year.
He relies from data found here:
Nothing bad at first but..the math is done for:
Quote
Therefore the lower bound electricity consumption of the network at 3250 PH/s assuming the best-case scenario of 100% of miners currently running one of the latest 3 most efficient ASICs (at best 0.10 J/GH) is 325 MW or 2.85 TWh/year.
He has later updated it for January 2018
Quote
As of 11 January 2018 (average hash rate of 16200 PH/s):
Lower bound Best guess Upper bound
Energy consumption (TWh/yr) 14.19 18.40 27.4
Lower bound Best guess Upper bound
Energy consumption (TWh/yr) 14.19 18.40 27.4
The hash rate since then has reached 50 exahash
That's 3 times as much as that or 42TWh... at least!!!!
I don't really understand why people are so fast on dismissing this huge energy consumption as FUD.
This is real, there are at least 3 million S9 or equivalent out there each running at ~ 1400W.
Simple math, no FUD!!!
August 03, 2018, 07:19:20 AM
Yes, Bitcoin's cost for production is about 6K, 200 kWh is used to verify one transaction using the PoW SHA-256 algorithm.
But with increasing complexity, these costs will increase, besides the cost of maintaining the system itself is also expensive.
Help in this problem can only coordinate changes in mining.
But with increasing complexity, these costs will increase, besides the cost of maintaining the system itself is also expensive.
Help in this problem can only coordinate changes in mining.
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