The fact something is subjective doesn't mean it is non-existent. Or that you can run over our society structure and laws.
No morals comes from God or any supernatural thing, "morals" come from philosophy, human experience and practical results and sometimes envy, greed or other hard feelings.
i.e A society of murders wouldn't live long as they would keep killing each other.
And still, under the subjective view, for a 21st century western it is equally wrong to kill a woman or a man, for a traditional Afghan it isn't, kill a woman is a somewhat "normal thing". If it was a "fixed view" then the Afghans would put this pedophile behind bars and threw away the key.
Edit:
And more! If morals were fixed then there would be no social evolution. Gays would still be persecuted and/or killed at US, for an instance, whereas whatever they do cause no harm to the society.
Topic: Family Considers Killing 10-Year-Old Daughter After Mullah Rapes Her In Mosque (Read 6251 times)
July 22, 2014, 04:19:00 PM
July 22, 2014, 03:58:22 PM
What are "morals" and "corrupt morals"?
Are the "morals" from the "holy" books right? Do they set the bar? If so, why we feel so much of immorality and twisted morals on all of them? Fathers fucking daughters, killing sons and wives for nothing... the (un)holy books are an "everything goes" as long as it is "in the name of God".
"Morality" is a subjective path, the very same thing can be moral to one and immoral to another. But we can draw a few lines, and those would be to not hurt our kin and protect the weak ones, anything within this boundaries can be considered "moral", anything that violates it "immoral".
If we go by the unholy books we will get Hell on Earth, with people picking on other people for things that aren't in anyway of their concern nor harm or disturb them on anyway.
Work to make Earth a Paradise, because this is the only place you're sure to exist!
Are the "morals" from the "holy" books right? Do they set the bar? If so, why we feel so much of immorality and twisted morals on all of them? Fathers fucking daughters, killing sons and wives for nothing... the (un)holy books are an "everything goes" as long as it is "in the name of God".
"Morality" is a subjective path, the very same thing can be moral to one and immoral to another. But we can draw a few lines, and those would be to not hurt our kin and protect the weak ones, anything within this boundaries can be considered "moral", anything that violates it "immoral".
If we go by the unholy books we will get Hell on Earth, with people picking on other people for things that aren't in anyway of their concern nor harm or disturb them on anyway.
Work to make Earth a Paradise, because this is the only place you're sure to exist!
Morals are NOT subject to your whims. That is why we can mostly agree that rape and murder are wrong. Simply because it is a fixed absolute idea with the source being of supernatural origin. We don't just make these laws to get along. We make them because its the right thing to do. I propose that the reason you don't agree is because you deny the supernatural. Fine, but be honest about it.
If morals were subjective, then were the US Constitution unlawful, null & void. (ie. who are you tell me what rights I can't have. This is implied by the constitution, that you can't do whatever you decide is right).
July 22, 2014, 01:23:39 PM
hbdchick talks about this on her blog. The practice of honor killings seems evil and insane to Westerners. It is evil, there really isn't any doubt. However it isn't insane, and in fact is a logical course of action.
The Bedouin practiced what is called "father's brother's daughter marriage" (FBD) which means that you marry the daughter of your father's brother, your paternal first cousin. While cousin marriage has been common throughout the world and throughout history, FBD is very rare with one exception: areas formerly part of the caliphate.
FBD, unlike cross-cousin marriage, tends to turn a family tree into a ladder. The result is a much higher degree of genetic similarity among relatives. The result is that a man will care for his nephews and nieces much more than normal. If his daughter has scandalous behavior then it could compromise the ability of his relatives to get good marriages (remember that while most marriages are to closely related members of the family, there are still many that aren't). So for the sake of family success the family has a massive incentive keep its honor intact.
Ok, so now you find that your daughter has been raped. No one will dishonor his family by marrying a broken woman, and so the woman is unmarriageable. Genetically, she is a dead end. However, unlike a dead daughter, she can still harm the honor and thus the marriage prospects of her extended family. She might get raped again. She might become despondent and start sleeping around. Genetically, she has no upside and plenty of downside. Thus the muslim populations of these lands have evolved a response (honor killing) to handle this situation.
So while it is an evil practice, it is perfectly logical. The only way to eliminate it would be to eliminate FBD marriage. Eliminating all cousin marriage would speed the process, though it would probably still take a few centuries.
The Bedouin practiced what is called "father's brother's daughter marriage" (FBD) which means that you marry the daughter of your father's brother, your paternal first cousin. While cousin marriage has been common throughout the world and throughout history, FBD is very rare with one exception: areas formerly part of the caliphate.
FBD, unlike cross-cousin marriage, tends to turn a family tree into a ladder. The result is a much higher degree of genetic similarity among relatives. The result is that a man will care for his nephews and nieces much more than normal. If his daughter has scandalous behavior then it could compromise the ability of his relatives to get good marriages (remember that while most marriages are to closely related members of the family, there are still many that aren't). So for the sake of family success the family has a massive incentive keep its honor intact.
Ok, so now you find that your daughter has been raped. No one will dishonor his family by marrying a broken woman, and so the woman is unmarriageable. Genetically, she is a dead end. However, unlike a dead daughter, she can still harm the honor and thus the marriage prospects of her extended family. She might get raped again. She might become despondent and start sleeping around. Genetically, she has no upside and plenty of downside. Thus the muslim populations of these lands have evolved a response (honor killing) to handle this situation.
So while it is an evil practice, it is perfectly logical. The only way to eliminate it would be to eliminate FBD marriage. Eliminating all cousin marriage would speed the process, though it would probably still take a few centuries.
This is just "logical" if you got repeatedly hit in the head by a hammer or your parents are close relatives and therefore you have mental issues! O.o
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding
July 22, 2014, 01:19:50 PM
hbdchick talks about this on her blog. The practice of honor killings seems evil and insane to Westerners. It is evil, there really isn't any doubt. However it isn't insane, and in fact is a logical course of action.
The Bedouin practiced what is called "father's brother's daughter marriage" (FBD) which means that you marry the daughter of your father's brother, your paternal first cousin. While cousin marriage has been common throughout the world and throughout history, FBD is very rare with one exception: areas formerly part of the caliphate.
FBD, unlike cross-cousin marriage, tends to turn a family tree into a ladder. The result is a much higher degree of genetic similarity among relatives. The result is that a man will care for his nephews and nieces much more than normal. If his daughter has scandalous behavior then it could compromise the ability of his relatives to get good marriages (remember that while most marriages are to closely related members of the family, there are still many that aren't). So for the sake of family success the family has a massive incentive keep its honor intact.
Ok, so now you find that your daughter has been raped. No one will dishonor his family by marrying a broken woman, and so the woman is unmarriageable. Genetically, she is a dead end. However, unlike a dead daughter, she can still harm the honor and thus the marriage prospects of her extended family. She might get raped again. She might become despondent and start sleeping around. Genetically, she has no upside and plenty of downside. Thus the muslim populations of these lands have evolved a response (honor killing) to handle this situation.
So while it is an evil practice, it is perfectly logical. The only way to eliminate it would be to eliminate FBD marriage. Eliminating all cousin marriage would speed the process, though it would probably still take a few centuries.
The Bedouin practiced what is called "father's brother's daughter marriage" (FBD) which means that you marry the daughter of your father's brother, your paternal first cousin. While cousin marriage has been common throughout the world and throughout history, FBD is very rare with one exception: areas formerly part of the caliphate.
FBD, unlike cross-cousin marriage, tends to turn a family tree into a ladder. The result is a much higher degree of genetic similarity among relatives. The result is that a man will care for his nephews and nieces much more than normal. If his daughter has scandalous behavior then it could compromise the ability of his relatives to get good marriages (remember that while most marriages are to closely related members of the family, there are still many that aren't). So for the sake of family success the family has a massive incentive keep its honor intact.
Ok, so now you find that your daughter has been raped. No one will dishonor his family by marrying a broken woman, and so the woman is unmarriageable. Genetically, she is a dead end. However, unlike a dead daughter, she can still harm the honor and thus the marriage prospects of her extended family. She might get raped again. She might become despondent and start sleeping around. Genetically, she has no upside and plenty of downside. Thus the muslim populations of these lands have evolved a response (honor killing) to handle this situation.
So while it is an evil practice, it is perfectly logical. The only way to eliminate it would be to eliminate FBD marriage. Eliminating all cousin marriage would speed the process, though it would probably still take a few centuries.
So while it is an evil practice, it is perfectly logical.
Wow...
July 22, 2014, 01:17:28 PM
It was bad enough that the alleged rape took place in the sanctity of a mosque and that the accused man was a mullah who invoked the familiar defence that it had been consensual sex.
But the victim was only 10 years old. And there was more: The authorities said her family members openly planned to carry out an honour killing in the case – against the young girl. The mullah offered to marry his victim instead.
This past week, the awful matter became even worse. On Tuesday, local policemen removed the girl from the shelter that had given her refuge and returned her to her family, despite complaints from women’s activists that she was likely to be killed.
The case has broader repercussions. The head of the Women for Afghan Women shelter here where the girl took refuge, Dr. Hassina Sarwari, was at one point driven into hiding by death threats from the girl’s family and other mullahs, who sought to play down the crime by arguing the girl was much older than 10. One militia commander sent Sarwari threatening texts and an ultimatum to return the girl to her family. The doctor said she now wanted to flee Afghanistan.
The head of the women’s affairs office in Kunduz, Nederah Geyah, who actively campaigned to have the young girl protected from her family and the mullah prosecuted, resigned May 21 and moved to another part of the country.
The case itself would just be an aberrant atrocity, except that the resulting support for the mullah, and for the girl’s family and its honour killing plans, have become emblematic of a broader failure to help Afghan women who have been victims of violence.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/20/family-under-pressure-to-kill-10-year-old-daughter-after-mullah-rapes-her-in-afghanistan-mosque/
------------------------------
http://youtu.be/E2VCwBzGdP
But the victim was only 10 years old. And there was more: The authorities said her family members openly planned to carry out an honour killing in the case – against the young girl. The mullah offered to marry his victim instead.
This past week, the awful matter became even worse. On Tuesday, local policemen removed the girl from the shelter that had given her refuge and returned her to her family, despite complaints from women’s activists that she was likely to be killed.
The case has broader repercussions. The head of the Women for Afghan Women shelter here where the girl took refuge, Dr. Hassina Sarwari, was at one point driven into hiding by death threats from the girl’s family and other mullahs, who sought to play down the crime by arguing the girl was much older than 10. One militia commander sent Sarwari threatening texts and an ultimatum to return the girl to her family. The doctor said she now wanted to flee Afghanistan.
The head of the women’s affairs office in Kunduz, Nederah Geyah, who actively campaigned to have the young girl protected from her family and the mullah prosecuted, resigned May 21 and moved to another part of the country.
The case itself would just be an aberrant atrocity, except that the resulting support for the mullah, and for the girl’s family and its honour killing plans, have become emblematic of a broader failure to help Afghan women who have been victims of violence.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/20/family-under-pressure-to-kill-10-year-old-daughter-after-mullah-rapes-her-in-afghanistan-mosque/
------------------------------
http://youtu.be/E2VCwBzGdP
Pedophiles being protected, really really backwards. Afghanistan needs a cultural reform.
As for honour killings in Afghanistan: recorded 240 cases of honor killings, but the total number is believed to be much higher. Of the reported honor killings, 21% were committed by the victims’ husbands, 7% by their brothers, 4% by their fathers, and the rest by other relatives (2012) Within the United States, the overwhelming majority of honor killings are perpetrated by Muslims against Muslims (90% of honor killings known to have taken place in Europe and the United States from 1998 to 2008. Source: wiki
July 22, 2014, 01:11:02 PM
What are "morals" and "corrupt morals"?
Are the "morals" from the "holy" books right? Do they set the bar? If so, why we feel so much of immorality and twisted morals on all of them? Fathers fucking daughters, killing sons and wives for nothing... the (un)holy books are an "everything goes" as long as it is "in the name of God".
"Morality" is a subjective path, the very same thing can be moral to one and immoral to another. But we can draw a few lines, and those would be to not hurt our kin and protect the weak ones, anything within this boundaries can be considered "moral", anything that violates it "immoral".
If we go by the unholy books we will get Hell on Earth, with people picking on other people for things that aren't in anyway of their concern nor harm or disturb them on anyway.
Work to make Earth a Paradise, because this is the only place you're sure to exist!
Are the "morals" from the "holy" books right? Do they set the bar? If so, why we feel so much of immorality and twisted morals on all of them? Fathers fucking daughters, killing sons and wives for nothing... the (un)holy books are an "everything goes" as long as it is "in the name of God".
"Morality" is a subjective path, the very same thing can be moral to one and immoral to another. But we can draw a few lines, and those would be to not hurt our kin and protect the weak ones, anything within this boundaries can be considered "moral", anything that violates it "immoral".
If we go by the unholy books we will get Hell on Earth, with people picking on other people for things that aren't in anyway of their concern nor harm or disturb them on anyway.
Work to make Earth a Paradise, because this is the only place you're sure to exist!
July 22, 2014, 01:05:21 PM
i once knew an asian girl in college who was raped while out on a date.. i asked her if her parents knew, and she said no... because they would end up blaming it on her. people can be really backwards sometimes.
July 22, 2014, 12:58:25 PM
What is wrong with this peoples mind. Look like they are still living in stone age.
Are you implying that honor killing was ok in the stone age? If so, its not a moral issue for you. Moral values are absolute.
I should hope you're outraged because these people have corrupt morals. They're not following a moral-giving higher power, they're serving themselves.
I fear this sad situation will translate from 'Muslim honor killing is evil' to 'People of faith are evil'.
July 22, 2014, 12:50:34 PM
Another day in the lives of women under the brutality of Islam.. there will be no justice or redemption for this girl until Islam is eradicated from the earth!!!
July 22, 2014, 12:40:15 PM
No it can't, have you ever debated againts someone obsessed with Religion? No logic, no agrument will work, they are 100% blinded by their beliefs no matter the evidence given to them.
Isn't easy, for sure!
But if we recall it correctly, when Scorsese's "The Last Temptation of Christ" came out, back on late 80's we had even Christian terrorist attacks on a theater at Paris along with demonstrations across Europe. But now anybody would be ashamed to assume to ever take part of that madness 30 years ago.
Muslims will change too, their Stone Age religion is breaking apart, just not faster because the death threats over their heads if they leave that thing.
July 22, 2014, 12:14:37 PM
What kind of Mother or Father are you to let this happen to your child and still swear allegiance that "religion" ?........ The kind of mother and father that hate Jews more than they love their kids
Virginity is seen as a very important virtue for unmarried girls. Even it was rape,they think that their family honor was blemished. As screwed up as that sounds,honor is given much more importance than the life of any one individual. Moreover,sons are given more attention than daughters there. Stuff like this happens very often in those countries. Education alone can change actions like this.
No it can't, have you ever debated againts someone obsessed with Religion? No logic, no agrument will work, they are 100% blinded by their beliefs no matter the evidence given to them.
July 22, 2014, 11:47:46 AM
What kind of Mother or Father are you to let this happen to your child and still swear allegiance that "religion" ?........ The kind of mother and father that hate Jews more than they love their kids
Virginity is seen as a very important virtue for unmarried girls. Even it was rape,they think that their family honor was blemished. As screwed up as that sounds,honor is given much more importance than the life of any one individual. Moreover,sons are given more attention than daughters there. Stuff like this happens very often in those countries. Education alone can change actions like this.
July 22, 2014, 11:41:50 AM
What kind of Mother or Father are you to let this happen to your child and still swear allegiance that "religion" ?........ The kind of mother and father that hate Jews more than they love their kids
July 22, 2014, 11:08:33 AM
they do lots of honor killings too.. they are just really backwards. the chinese also blame their children for getting molested as well.
July 22, 2014, 10:54:15 AM
Wow that's crazy stuff, can't wrap my head around this 
So a ten old girl gets raped in a mosque by a religious man and everyone is rooting to have the girl killed?? WTF? That's some sick shit man.
The thing is this is the world we all agree to live in. Each and every human alive is personally responsible for this.
I honestly believe that scumbag relatives who would murder a girl (a child no less) for being raped should be covered in baby oil, handcuffed and then thrown into a cell with a predatory homosexual rapist, preferably one who has an ironic nickname like ‘Tiny’. Then perhaps they could develop some empathy for the the rape victim they murdered to regain their perverted sense of ‘honor’. So a ten old girl gets raped in a mosque by a religious man and everyone is rooting to have the girl killed
?? WTF? That's some sick shit man.The thing is this is the world we all agree to live in. Each and every human alive is personally responsible for this.
July 22, 2014, 10:33:21 AM
Why do those women even bother to have children? This is not "mothering." This is "eating your young."
Bring the child to our Southern border. She's got more right to claim refugee status than any of those interlopers down there.
Bring the child to our Southern border. She's got more right to claim refugee status than any of those interlopers down there.
July 22, 2014, 10:21:04 AM
It was bad enough that the alleged rape took place in the sanctity of a mosque and that the accused man was a mullah who invoked the familiar defence that it had been consensual sex.
But the victim was only 10 years old. And there was more: The authorities said her family members openly planned to carry out an honour killing in the case – against the young girl. The mullah offered to marry his victim instead.
This past week, the awful matter became even worse. On Tuesday, local policemen removed the girl from the shelter that had given her refuge and returned her to her family, despite complaints from women’s activists that she was likely to be killed.
The case has broader repercussions. The head of the Women for Afghan Women shelter here where the girl took refuge, Dr. Hassina Sarwari, was at one point driven into hiding by death threats from the girl’s family and other mullahs, who sought to play down the crime by arguing the girl was much older than 10. One militia commander sent Sarwari threatening texts and an ultimatum to return the girl to her family. The doctor said she now wanted to flee Afghanistan.
The head of the women’s affairs office in Kunduz, Nederah Geyah, who actively campaigned to have the young girl protected from her family and the mullah prosecuted, resigned May 21 and moved to another part of the country.
The case itself would just be an aberrant atrocity, except that the resulting support for the mullah, and for the girl’s family and its honour killing plans, have become emblematic of a broader failure to help Afghan women who have been victims of violence.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/20/family-under-pressure-to-kill-10-year-old-daughter-after-mullah-rapes-her-in-afghanistan-mosque/
------------------------------
http://youtu.be/E2VCwBzGdPM
Great, some people still resist to the western cultural imperialism
July 22, 2014, 10:17:49 AM
I'm not sure how the US expected to bring the concept of democracy (1 person = 1 vote) to a land where women apparently are not considered humans but more like livestock.
Oh I'm sorry, did my 10 year olddog daughter interfere with your life, I'll it put down immediately.
It's one thing to be culturally sensitive and not push "western" ideals onto another culture, it's another thing to look away while an innocent 10 year old child had to endure rape and them may feel even more pain thinking minutes before she dies that she shamed her family.
Maybe it's a father in me talking, but personally I would have taken the mullah to the back of my house, beaten him silly and let my dogs have dinner. Guess I'm a westerner.
Oh I'm sorry, did my 10 year old
It's one thing to be culturally sensitive and not push "western" ideals onto another culture, it's another thing to look away while an innocent 10 year old child had to endure rape and them may feel even more pain thinking minutes before she dies that she shamed her family.
Maybe it's a father in me talking, but personally I would have taken the mullah to the back of my house, beaten him silly and let my dogs have dinner. Guess I'm a westerner.
Religion FUCK YA making the world a better place!!! Right.. right?!?!?!!? Oh WAIT it kills MILLIONS of people .. oh.
July 22, 2014, 10:10:46 AM
Children are less than slaves in the world of Islam. The incident where little Saudi girls ran out of a burning boarding school in their night clothes, only to be sent back in by the religious police epitomizes Muslim morality. Islamic virtue determined it was better to let those little girls burn to death than to have them tempt Muslim perverts. Islamic hierarchy values religious leaders, terrorist leaders, influential Muslim men and camels. Everyone and everything else is as disposable as yesterday’s garbage.
July 22, 2014, 09:11:57 AM
hbdchick talks about this on her blog. The practice of honor killings seems evil and insane to Westerners. It is evil, there really isn't any doubt. However it isn't insane, and in fact is a logical course of action.
The Bedouin practiced what is called "father's brother's daughter marriage" (FBD) which means that you marry the daughter of your father's brother, your paternal first cousin. While cousin marriage has been common throughout the world and throughout history, FBD is very rare with one exception: areas formerly part of the caliphate.
FBD, unlike cross-cousin marriage, tends to turn a family tree into a ladder. The result is a much higher degree of genetic similarity among relatives. The result is that a man will care for his nephews and nieces much more than normal. If his daughter has scandalous behavior then it could compromise the ability of his relatives to get good marriages (remember that while most marriages are to closely related members of the family, there are still many that aren't). So for the sake of family success the family has a massive incentive keep its honor intact.
Ok, so now you find that your daughter has been raped. No one will dishonor his family by marrying a broken woman, and so the woman is unmarriageable. Genetically, she is a dead end. However, unlike a dead daughter, she can still harm the honor and thus the marriage prospects of her extended family. She might get raped again. She might become despondent and start sleeping around. Genetically, she has no upside and plenty of downside. Thus the muslim populations of these lands have evolved a response (honor killing) to handle this situation.
So while it is an evil practice, it is perfectly logical. The only way to eliminate it would be to eliminate FBD marriage. Eliminating all cousin marriage would speed the process, though it would probably still take a few centuries.
The Bedouin practiced what is called "father's brother's daughter marriage" (FBD) which means that you marry the daughter of your father's brother, your paternal first cousin. While cousin marriage has been common throughout the world and throughout history, FBD is very rare with one exception: areas formerly part of the caliphate.
FBD, unlike cross-cousin marriage, tends to turn a family tree into a ladder. The result is a much higher degree of genetic similarity among relatives. The result is that a man will care for his nephews and nieces much more than normal. If his daughter has scandalous behavior then it could compromise the ability of his relatives to get good marriages (remember that while most marriages are to closely related members of the family, there are still many that aren't). So for the sake of family success the family has a massive incentive keep its honor intact.
Ok, so now you find that your daughter has been raped. No one will dishonor his family by marrying a broken woman, and so the woman is unmarriageable. Genetically, she is a dead end. However, unlike a dead daughter, she can still harm the honor and thus the marriage prospects of her extended family. She might get raped again. She might become despondent and start sleeping around. Genetically, she has no upside and plenty of downside. Thus the muslim populations of these lands have evolved a response (honor killing) to handle this situation.
So while it is an evil practice, it is perfectly logical. The only way to eliminate it would be to eliminate FBD marriage. Eliminating all cousin marriage would speed the process, though it would probably still take a few centuries.
Make cultural and family sense but harm genetic evolution.
Defect in the family line will get magnify while the benefit can not overcome the defect.
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