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Topic: FAO MODS: Why not charge a fee to recover hacked accounts? (Read 2228 times)

member
Activity: 95
Merit: 28
Wasn't Theymos working on a system that would allow us to regain control of our account by email? Something similar to the possibility to lock our account when the email and password were changed. Wasn't it supposed to be added very soon?
hi

actually if your account is locked you can do this process:

1 : ask for a new password by email
2 : you receive email and you click on the link
3 : you change password
4 : you log in with new password successfully and...
5 : you are locked again

i have do this many times and it's not working...i'm going in circles.  if this process was possible, it will give less work to Theymos and Cyrus

the strange thing it's my account is locked since august 2017 but when i try this process  it's changing the "Last Active:  date"

like is we have really connected, but we are not, we are locked

for example, here  https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/trankil-142910 i have try again on may 2018


jr. member
Activity: 120
Merit: 6
What I don't understand is that things were progressing, and then they suddenly stopped. I believe that most things have now been done. My ownership of the hacked account has been verified and the hacked account is now locked awaiting recovery.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/thetribesman-168257

The final step is to get the recovery email out. The heavy lifting has been done. So what's stopping mods taking the final step and pushing the button in cases like mine? Maybe there was an overwhelming flood of recovery requests around the end of last year. I don't know. Communication was stopped without explanation.

Some investigations have already been completed. Why can't they be finalized? Even if a few were being done once in a while (that we were aware of), at least there will be some flicker of hope for people.

As it was pointed out, the problem is not going away. It will just keep on mounting until something gives.

(in my conspiracy theory trances, I sometimes wonder if maybe the site owners are now tired of BCT (members can be very abrasive) and just want it to go away and die)
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
I think a lot of people would be interested in this "embezzlement" controversy.
Not really, it's old news and mud throwing.

As for the forum needing money: it earned about $1 million last year, and could easily earn much more from advertising. Theymos excluded ICO advertising last year, which lowered the advertising income. For a forum this size, only one banner per page on 90% of the pages is really low.
So no, I don't believe the forum needs money.
legendary
Activity: 2383
Merit: 1551
dogs are cute.
LOL are you kidding me? a forum for 1 mil? am I missing something here? is this NASA?  did you even have a look at the website of the  "company he hired" to do the job? its a 5 dollar template site.

and you dont think he will risk his rep over so much money? well. thats your opinion.
his improvements are slow, cost to much, mostly never come, and with they do, they suck.
so yes thermos is dipshit and there is no use starting a scam accusation as there is no new info, just the stuff thats on reddit.


oh and I will just add. after spending 1 mil you got thin air in return
While 1 million $ is no small amount, you or me can't really tell why the amount was spent. This isn't the place to discuss about the new forum/ theymos's 'embezzlement". Create an another thread, and we shall have a legitimate conversation and by we, I think a lot of people would be interested in this "embezzlement" controversy.
newbie
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
Wait a minute... TheJoke[r], hates mysterious rich people, hmmmmm. I think this all boils down to Batman issues.

yeah. or you can continue to remain blindfolded and a good patron of "the mysterious guy" Smiley

and when you decide to stop being an ostrich with your head stuck in a hole in the ground  check out this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/55xjai/proof_that_theymoss_embezzled_forum_money_has/

and other links when googling "epochtalk reddit"

but of course if backing up someone you never knew or met is your thing. then kudos
You should read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2mcdb4/thermos_is_spending_100000_worth_of_his_donated/cm32dws

I don't think theymos will ever risk his reputation amongst other things[1] for money. In fact, he is one of the very rare people who actually helps the community. He has done so mnay things and is even doing things like trying to make improvements everywhere in the bitcoin community, while you're just saying thermos is dipshit. If you have any legit accusation/s, write it up here or here in Meta itself, it won't be moderated, so you don't have to worry about that.

[1]You shouldn't be knowing what that is.


LOL are you kidding me? a forum for 1 mil? am I missing something here? is this NASA?  did you even have a look at the website of the  "company he hired" to do the job? its a 5 dollar template site.

and you dont think he will risk his rep over so much money? well. thats your opinion.
his improvements are slow, cost to much, mostly never come, and with they do, they suck.
so yes thermos is dipshit and there is no use starting a scam accusation as there is no new info, just the stuff thats on reddit.


oh and I will just add. after spending 1 mil you got thin air in return
legendary
Activity: 2383
Merit: 1551
dogs are cute.
Wait a minute... TheJoke[r], hates mysterious rich people, hmmmmm. I think this all boils down to Batman issues.

yeah. or you can continue to remain blindfolded and a good patron of "the mysterious guy" Smiley

and when you decide to stop being an ostrich with your head stuck in a hole in the ground  check out this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/55xjai/proof_that_theymoss_embezzled_forum_money_has/

and other links when googling "epochtalk reddit"

but of course if backing up someone you never knew or met is your thing. then kudos
You should read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2mcdb4/thermos_is_spending_100000_worth_of_his_donated/cm32dws

I don't think theymos will ever risk his reputation amongst other things[1] for money. In fact, he is one of the very rare people who actually helps the community. He has done so mnay things and is even doing things like trying to make improvements everywhere in the bitcoin community, while you're just saying thermos is dipshit. If you have any legit accusation/s, write it up here or here in Meta itself, it won't be moderated, so you don't have to worry about that.

[1]You shouldn't be knowing what that is.
newbie
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
Wait a minute... TheJoke[r], hates mysterious rich people, hmmmmm. I think this all boils down to Batman issues.

yeah. or you can continue to remain blindfolded and a good patron of "the mysterious guy" Smiley

and when you decide to stop being an ostrich with your head stuck in a hole in the ground  check out this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/55xjai/proof_that_theymoss_embezzled_forum_money_has/

and other links when googling "epochtalk reddit"

but of course if backing up someone you never knew or met is your thing. then kudos
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 2037
Wait a minute... TheJoke[r], hates mysterious rich people, hmmmmm. I think this all boils down to Batman issues.
newbie
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
look a you... thermos lovers lol. just google what I said and see for yourself. of course it isnt "stealing" because it is donation money. But you know what I meant so don't play bs games ...
I understand where you are coming from, you wish the forum to continue and "prosper" thus you avoid reality. but the reality is this forum is going downwards in a steady pace. all to your beloved "Sir Thermos" and his other friend cyrus.

That's bullshit.

I completely understand theymos, satoshi made the right choice, I think.
Everything comes down to trust, and if you want to stay anonymous you can't trust anyone.

When you are famous and mysterious person and in addition holding a few millions in Bitcoin /can be rumours of course/ anonymity is what is keeping you save, and you can have a normal life.

That's why I respect him.

you begin by saying that what I wrote is BS.
then you continue and say you respect him because he is anonymous while disregarding everything I said here or before.

well done Sir! let's all respect rich mysterious people just because they are rich and mysterious!
legendary
Activity: 2240
Merit: 3150
₿uy / $ell ..oeleo ;(
look a you... thermos lovers lol. just google what I said and see for yourself. of course it isnt "stealing" because it is donation money. But you know what I meant so don't play bs games ...
I understand where you are coming from, you wish the forum to continue and "prosper" thus you avoid reality. but the reality is this forum is going downwards in a steady pace. all to your beloved "Sir Thermos" and his other friend cyrus.

That's bullshit.

I completely understand theymos, satoshi made the right choice, I think.
Everything comes down to trust, and if you want to stay anonymous you can't trust anyone.

When you are famous and mysterious person and in addition holding a few millions in Bitcoin /can be rumours of course/ anonymity is what is keeping you save, and you can have a normal life.

That's why I respect him.
newbie
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
look a you... thermos lovers lol. just google what I said and see for yourself. of course it isnt "stealing" because it is donation money. But you know what I meant so don't play bs games ...
I understand where you are coming from, you wish the forum to continue and "prosper" thus you avoid reality. but the reality is this forum is going downwards in a steady pace. all to your beloved "Sir Thermos" and his other friend cyrus.
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 2037

because thermos is a dipshit that most likely stole money, and now the forum is running on its last breath:

That's Sir Thermos to you.  Cool

I've seen crazier theories explained much better. How about putting all of the "proof" into a scam accusation for the community to go over. I'm sure it will all make perfect sense; amazed no one here has caught it or dragged the seedy details to the surface. Maybe I'm to used to this forum that was hard to try and read/piece together.

Or you are some troll content to hide behind a new account, which Sir Thermos still makes easy to do so that people can freely join; or use to throw shit at the walls without consequence.
legendary
Activity: 2758
Merit: 6830
~
Stole from who? Wasn't this all a donation? It literally says "donations" in the title of the thread you linked.

What is the accusation for him to be in jail?
newbie
Activity: 70
Merit: 0
to reply the question of the OP.

because thermos is a dipshit that most likely stole money, and now the forum is running on its last breath:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7cvnxy/6900_btc_in_donations_6_years_in_development/
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/55xjai/proof_that_theymoss_embezzled_forum_money_has/

and many others just google "epochtalk reddit"

and the short answer he doesn't give a fuck and should be jailed.
staff
Activity: 3304
Merit: 4115
With account sales including private keys, email, etc., it's a crap shoot. Set the criteria for recovery and get the ball rolling; something needs to be done so I volunteered. I spend some time here anyway, may as well benefit the forum.
It shouldn't take a few hours. Set the burden of proof and go from there, if you can't come to some conclusion in 20-30 minutes then it is probably a lost cause.


Exactly. I'm not sure what the stance is on account sales when it comes to recovering accounts. I'm guessing access to personal messages would need to be done, and looking up transactions on the Blockchain to see if a transaction did occur, and it all lines up to prove whether the account was sold or not. I imagine there's several other things which needs to be taken into consideration, and I can see the more complex cases taking a few hours.
legendary
Activity: 2926
Merit: 3051
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
maybe theymos and cyrus should just take a day or two out of every month to investigate and restore them.

It would take at least a couple hours every day to deal with them. Each case typically requires a lot of follow-up. And it's really annoying work. I used to do them sort-of regularly, but at some point I just couldn't stand it anymore, in addition to not really having time. Cyrus is still doing some, though not enough to keep up.

I'm sure it would take a lot of time, especially with the current backlog, but wouldn't it make even more sense to put someone in charge dedicated to investigating and restoring them? The pile is only going to continue to get bigger the longer it's left and I really think it's unacceptable how long users have been left in the dark without even a response. I'd be absolutely irate if I was in their position. For some users they are losing business because they've lost accounts here and a lot more will be missing out on money from signature campaigns etc.

There's no need for any fee, and a fee probably wouldn't be appropriate unless absolutely necessary. Money is not a problem. If I could throw $100k at the problem and make it go away, I would do so. But in the real world, there is no magic wishing well where you can throw money and make things happen. You give people money and they don't do what you want, or the people you hire turn out not to be trustworthy, or you fill out the tax forms wrong and then later have to spend more time&money dealing with that than you would've by just doing the thing with current sub-optimal resources, etc.

I don't think we should use this is an excuse not to do anything about certain issues. Sure, some people can be greedy and lazy or turn out to be someone they're not but people can be paid after they've done the work and to an acceptable standard, and if they do a shoddy job then they can be fired or let go. You can only do your best and at least you tried, but not doing anything about certain things isn't going to make the situation here any better.

I acknowledge that the current situation is very bad, and we have some plans for fixing it. I hope to have manual account reviews going smoothly again before the end of the year at the latest.

What about the users who have been waiting eight+ months already? Do they have to wait another four months in the hope that the system will be ready by the end of the year? What if it isn't? Wouldn't it make more sense to assign someone to deal with the problem in the meantime? Also, what about those who can't prove their ownership with a bitcoin address or can prove in other ways? Will they continue to languish? The majority of people who join this forum these days likely do so for alt coins and that will only continue to grow and if they haven't posted a bitcoin address then there's still going to be a huge hole here that needs to be manually investigated.

theymos mentioned before about hiring someone with a business degree or something to run the forum

Yes, this would be very useful. I hate that I'm basically acting as a CEO here. I hate dealing with lawyers and accountants, or figuring out who to hire. This stuff is not my wheelhouse, and is in fact not even on my ship. I wish that someone would take all of that business-related stuff off my hands. But it looks like that's the one aspect which is most difficult to (safely) get rid of, so I've been trying (with only a bit of success) to delegate in other areas.

I get that it's probably pretty shitty and unfair that you've become the defacto leader (especially if it's not something you truly wanted to do), but you are the 'boss' here and unless you're going to step down/give up and hand the keys over to someone else (which I don't think you should ever do if you can help it) then I think you should look at ways at lightening the load on both yourself and other mods which will not only relieve stress from you but also the forum and make it a better place in the process. I wouldn't want to have to deal with lawyers either as my previous experience of them has been that most of them aren't very nice people at all and don't really care about anything other than money. I also absolutely hate doing taxes and I know how difficult/stressful it is for anyone running a business, and when you're doing the finances in bitcoin it adds an extra layer of difficulty with capital gains and loses etc (and the tax man not really understanding or 'trusting' bitcoin). If this is something that is causing you stress or headaches then you should look to hiring a professional who can help you with that asap. In the meantime, I think you should look at ways of spreading out the workload here so the forum doesn't suffer in the process. You could have a staff member dedicated to account restorations. One dedicated to running the ad slots. One or two dedicated to adding more merit sources. Maybe a couple dedicated to policing shoddily run ICO campaigns. A team of mods dedicated to policing sig spam etc, and so on. A few of the sub boards still don't even have any dedicated mods which I've been calling for for years. All of these are things that will take away the stress from both you and all current staff and the community and users will be better off for it.

When was the last time you spoke to BadBear? Can't you try contact him and try get him to come back if there's nobody else trusted to be an admin or doing things like restoring accounts etc? I'm sure he could help out in other ways too.
KWH
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1045
In Collateral I Trust.
Even if we have users volunteering its still the matter of them dealing with the requests correctly, and actually making the right decisions. Account recoveries must be a pain in the arse to actually get right. There's always going to be people trying backhand tactics to try and getting their hands on accounts that aren't theirs. Especially, because of how much accounts are worth due to signature campaigns, and bounties.

I'm not sure what theymos has in the works to improve on this. But, I'm sure he has a few people in mind that would be appropriate to the job, and actually be able to look into it in depth, and come to the right conclusion. Honestly, sounds like a ball ache, and I don't know why anyone would willingly volunteer a few hours for one case Cheesy

With account sales including private keys, email, etc., it's a crap shoot. Set the criteria for recovery and get the ball rolling; something needs to be done so I volunteered. I spend some time here anyway, may as well benefit the forum.
It shouldn't take a few hours. Set the burden of proof and go from there, if you can't come to some conclusion in 20-30 minutes then it is probably a lost cause.

legendary
Activity: 2383
Merit: 1551
dogs are cute.
I remember Hilariousandco(Global Mod) saying that Cyrus once mentioned that account recoveries are a hectic task, and a lot of investigation is involved. These account recoveries consume a lot of time,apparently. Since only 2 people can investigate and their time is very limited, so a lot of issues just exist and nothing ever happens.

I don't think I said hectic, but what I probably said was that there's likely more to them than just verifying the address and then restoring it. It's likely not just a five minute job.
Called it.  Roll Eyes

It would take at least a couple hours every day to deal with them. Each case typically requires a lot of follow-up. And it's really annoying work. I used to do them sort-of regularly, but at some point I just couldn't stand it anymore, in addition to not really having time. Cyrus is still doing some, though not enough to keep up.


Yes, this would be very useful. I hate that I'm basically acting as a CEO here. I hate dealing with lawyers and accountants, or figuring out who to hire. This stuff is not my wheelhouse, and is in fact not even on my ship. I wish that someone would take all of that business-related stuff off my hands. But it looks like that's the one aspect which is most difficult to (safely) get rid of, so I've been trying (with only a bit of success) to delegate in other areas.
That's your problem? Jesus, you live in the US, all those problems could be solved, there are so many people you can call up, since you don't have financial issues. Hire someone on or off the forum to manage the forum ads.
I mean, you have been in the bitcoin community for 8-9 years now,you still are finding trouble to find someone trustworthy? Yeah, being an admin can be a tedious and time consuming task, and delegating things may end up fucking you up, but you got to give it a go, otherwise things will get much worse. And the burden you put on yourself,will one day harm you only. Asking for help is not a bad thing, I don't know why, but i think you have such mindset?

Hate dealing with lawyers?  Find a lawfirm and be their client, since again, its not about the money. Having accounting issues, hire accountants? Accounting is a fairly moderate thing to do,because I have a background in it(speaking from experience), and since the forum doesn't have many means of expenses and income, it should be pretty-straightforward.
I was fucking honest, and I am not sorry. Tongue
staff
Activity: 3304
Merit: 4115
Even if we have users volunteering its still the matter of them dealing with the requests correctly, and actually making the right decisions. Account recoveries must be a pain in the arse to actually get right. There's always going to be people trying backhand tactics to try and getting their hands on accounts that aren't theirs. Especially, because of how much accounts are worth due to signature campaigns, and bounties.

I'm not sure what theymos has in the works to improve on this. But, I'm sure he has a few people in mind that would be appropriate to the job, and actually be able to look into it in depth, and come to the right conclusion. Honestly, sounds like a ball ache, and I don't know why anyone would willingly volunteer a few hours for one case Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 332
DMs have been disabled. I am busy.
Recovering accounts must be extremely low on the priority list of Theymos, they know that either way you'll have to create a new account and continue using the forum, so what is the actual benefit to them spending their time recovering your account? What is the net benefit for the forum? Nothing. As far as I've seen it, accounts are only recovered when a high profile person gets hacked, or when the community kicks up a fuss about it, for low level or random users, you are just waiting your time.
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