Topic: FastBets stops accepting deposits from US players (Read 1665 times)

Quote from: bitbaby on May 07, 2015, 08:06:32 PM

I am of the opinion that some sort of crackdown will happen eventually (don't know when obviously), and I'd be quite happy to not be part of it.

Any references on where do you get this info? hasnt heard anything related to this thing yet

I want to make this crystal clear: I have based my decision on publicly available information. That some sort of crackdown will happen eventually is my personal opinion. I do not know if it will happen or when. I just don't want to find out the hard way.

I'm a bit hesitant to talk too much about this topic in public because it's a bit touchy. Anyone should feel free to get in touch by email ([email protected]) or pm anytime.

I got your explanation via PM and I do respect your decision regarding this matter, wise decision Henry

I still don't think that this is necessary, the US is shutting down gambling sites which they think were/are running in the country and they're doing that because these sites were unlicensed. Bitcoin AFAIK is considered legal in US and if a player is playing at a site which doesn't comes under the US jurisdiction, it should be fine. I don't think they can shut-off/raid a site outside of US.

Well regarding this, Henry has made it clear that the reason for this will be most likely precautions to avoid things from happening in the future and of course no one would be wanting the feds to be knocking on your front door in the morning

Quote from: adaseb on May 07, 2015, 08:33:51 PM

Yes this is exactly what happened when online gaming was huge back in 2000's. It started getting banned because many large websites couldn't afford to pay the huge licensing fees and keep up with regulation. In the near future there will be more and more regulations towards online bitcoin mining.

Right , this could be why it is best to avoid this matter here rather than having some problem in the future since no one will know hows the future might shift and Henry has mentioned in the OP that he cant afford the license yet .That is why this precautions are being taken

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Yes this is exactly what happened when online gaming was huge back in 2000's. It started getting banned because many large websites couldn't afford to pay the huge licensing fees and keep up with regulation. In the near future there will be more and more regulations towards online bitcoin mining.

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I still don't think that this is necessary, the US is shutting down gambling sites which they think were/are running in the country and they're doing that because these sites were unlicensed. Bitcoin AFAIK is considered legal in US and if a player is playing at a site which doesn't comes under the US jurisdiction, it should be fine. I don't think they can shut-off/raid a site outside of US.

Not telling you to change your decision but just expressing my personal view on this matter.

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Quote from: MUFC on May 07, 2015, 02:16:36 AM

I am of the opinion that some sort of crackdown will happen eventually (don't know when obviously), and I'd be quite happy to not be part of it.

Any references on where do you get this info? hasnt heard anything related to this thing yet

I want to make this crystal clear: I have based my decision on publicly available information. That some sort of crackdown will happen eventually is my personal opinion. I do not know if it will happen or when. I just don't want to find out the hard way.

I'm a bit hesitant to talk too much about this topic in public because it's a bit touchy. Anyone should feel free to get in touch by email ([email protected]) or pm anytime.

Dannie

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Stunna also doesn't seem to be based in the US

Yes he is not AFAIK

Australia I believe.

That part is pretty ironic, considering that Primedice has been blocking Australian IPs for many months while Stunna is in Australia.

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I'm also not sure that not being based in the us is a sufficient protection from prosecution there.

It is not and we are talking about US which got influence to almost all countries which means that anything could happen if they want to start cracking down this thing

It's not. Just at look at Kim Dotcom and Megaupload. He was in New Zealand and got raided. If you operate in a county that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US you might be ok.

Stunna also doesn't seem to be based in the US

Yes he is not AFAIK

Australia I believe.

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its unfortunate to see this happening to a lot of gambling sites lately, but you gotta do what you gotta do

arallmuus

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Having read your comments I think that I might be overly cautious.

You actually did the right thing to do, it is said to be best to prevent things from happening in the future

On the other hand my legal council was of the opinion that if a crackdown happens then the risk to operators would be quite high

Yes it is, the risk is on operators and not the players that is why there is a warrant to Micon. If they could crack down the operator than the sites will be close, meaning no more US players will be playing there again and it is easier to arrest 1 guy rather than arresting thousand of players

I am of the opinion that some sort of crackdown will happen eventually (don't know when obviously), and I'd be quite happy to not be part of it.

Any references on where do you get this info? hasnt heard anything related to this thing yet

I'm also not sure that not being based in the us is a sufficient protection from prosecution there.

It is not and we are talking about US which got influence to almost all countries which means that anything could happen if they want to start cracking down this thing

Stunna also doesn't seem to be based in the US

Yes he is not AFAIK

Quote from: sherbyspark on May 06, 2015, 09:39:46 AM

In addition to that I must say that the thread of getting into legal trouble has been a bit of a weight on my shoulders. I'm certain to be loosing money through this move, but I've gained in life quality.

Better to set up precautions than to be sorry later

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Having read your comments I think that I might be overly cautious. On the other hand my legal council was of the opinion that if a crackdown happens then the risk to operators would be quite high. I am of the opinion that some sort of crackdown will happen eventually (don't know when obviously), and I'd be quite happy to not be part of it.

I'm also not sure that not being based in the us is a sufficient protection from prosecution there. Stunna also doesn't seem to be based in the US and he has made the same move. I'm sure that stunna has to notch legal advisors, and that he has not taken this decision lightly.

In addition to that I must say that the thread of getting into legal trouble has been a bit of a weight on my shoulders. I'm certain to be loosing money through this move, but I've gained in life quality.

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Quote from: arallmuus on May 06, 2015, 08:59:25 AM

Quote from: sherbyspark on May 06, 2015, 08:53:33 AM

If its not , I still don't understand the reason, if you are not based in US then. None of the government organizations will come after your site, because if one goes down the other can be created, Its not like the Megaupload case against Dotcom, wherein his was only the big company there.

The reason is simple. Precautions. Better to be safe than sorry. That could also be PrimeDice reason of no longer accepting deposits from the US player. There is no guarantee that someone that is operating gambling sites that is not based on US will be safe if US decided to put on some resources to track on the owner of the sites.

I thought you may be misunderstanding this post

Quote from: erpbridge on May 06, 2015, 10:18:28 AM

Well, I wouldn't say that what is happening to Bryan Micon is not a problem...

Literally means that fastslot is taking the consideration based on this matter too , CMIIW

Well the risk is always there of landing into some legal trouble in the future, but its too less or non-existent if you are based in another country, and are accepting bitcoins . There has actually been no case of any such site, based outside US landing into any trouble as such. If the government wishes to shut them down, they would rather just ask the ISP's to block couple of sites, instead of going after them in their countries.

And it will probably be the major casinos or sportsbooks which will be affected, which would give the smaller ones enough time to shut down.

There is a risk about it and thats the fact, better to play it safe than regret in the future. No one will know how the future comes. For now, I would say that there will be alot more major which the US will consider if they decided to "pursue" the owner of those sites but still you wouldnt want the feds to be knocking on your front door. So I do think that fastslot decision is right to no longer accept deposit from the US player

MUFC

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Quote from: shanem on May 06, 2015, 10:12:26 AM

It is sad that many companies don't accept US players due to their government interfering.
US players have no choice but to use VPN to use the services.

You could just use TOR, vpn's probably going to cost you money. This is definitely going to be a blow towards bitcoin gambling if the trend continues to other sites.

Plenty of free VPNs if you don't want to pay but they don't cost much at all and are worth it if you're regularly use things that are blocked. Proxies are usually much faster than tor which can be very slow at times.

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Quote from: shanem on May 06, 2015, 10:12:26 AM

It is sad that many companies don't accept US players due to their government interfering.
US players have no choice but to use VPN to use the services.

You could just use TOR, vpn's probably going to cost you money. This is definitely going to be a blow towards bitcoin gambling if the trend continues to other sites.

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It is sad that many companies don't accept US players due to their government interfering.
US players have no choice but to use VPN to use the services.

MUFC

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Quote from: foreveryoung on May 05, 2015, 04:30:25 PM

Quote from: FastSlots on May 05, 2015, 04:10:44 PM

Effective immediately FastBets will not be able to accepts deposits from players located in the United States and a number of other jurisdictions. We are neither operated nor based in in the US, however we try to comply with local regulation as good as we can, hence our legal council has suggested to move out of a number jurisdictions.

We're not happy to do this at all. However as a startup we cannot afford to purchase licenses that cost upwards of $1M per year in order to operate in the US (in addition we'd feel terrible if we’d have to structure FastBets in a way that forces players to loose huge amounts of money in order to pay for these licenses). As no one on the team has expressed the wish to spend extended periods of time in jail, we decided to play it safe this time.

Safety is a major ya , primedice had announced that they no longer accepted U.S player before and now fastbets. who's next?
is bitcoin freedom no longer exist?

The beauty of bitcoin is that you can still gamble with them and get around these sorts of regulatory restrictions. Get a proxy or use tor and you can gamble just fine.

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Quote from: arallmuus on May 06, 2015, 08:59:25 AM

Quote from: sherbyspark on May 06, 2015, 08:53:33 AM

If its not , I still don't understand the reason, if you are not based in US then. None of the government organizations will come after your site, because if one goes down the other can be created, Its not like the Megaupload case against Dotcom, wherein his was only the big company there.

The reason is simple. Precautions. Better to be safe than sorry. That could also be PrimeDice reason of no longer accepting deposits from the US player. There is no guarantee that someone that is operating gambling sites that is not based on US will be safe if US decided to put on some resources to track on the owner of the sites.

I thought you may be misunderstanding this post

Quote from: sherbyspark on May 06, 2015, 08:53:33 AM

Well, I wouldn't say that what is happening to Bryan Micon is not a problem...

Literally means that fastslot is taking the consideration based on this matter too , CMIIW

Well the risk is always there of landing into some legal trouble in the future, but its too less or non-existent if you are based in another country, and are accepting bitcoins . There has actually been no case of any such site, based outside US landing into any trouble as such. If the government wishes to shut them down, they would rather just ask the ISP's to block couple of sites, instead of going after them in their countries.

And it will probably be the major casinos or sportsbooks which will be affected, which would give the smaller ones enough time to shut down.

arallmuus

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If its not , I still don't understand the reason, if you are not based in US then. None of the government organizations will come after your site, because if one goes down the other can be created, Its not like the Megaupload case against Dotcom, wherein his was only the big company there.

The reason is simple. Precautions. Better to be safe than sorry. That could also be PrimeDice reason of no longer accepting deposits from the US player. There is no guarantee that someone that is operating gambling sites that is not based on US will be safe if US decided to put on some resources to track on the owner of the sites.

I thought you may be misunderstanding this post

Well, I wouldn't say that what is happening to Bryan Micon is not a problem...

Literally means that fastslot is taking the consideration based on this matter too , CMIIW

sherbyspark

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