Topic: FastCash4Bitcoins Support Thread - page 4. (Read 94604 times)

Per FinCEN:



http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

Yes, I am saying exactly what you think I am saying.  Individual USERS of virtual currency are not regulated.


If I were a betting man I would bet that lawyers said "you had better register as a money transmitter" and D&T said "naw, I like the money I'm making and that would cost millions".  My quick analysis of their flagrant abuse of money transmitter laws is detailed here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2267622




While that may be true, D&T is on BOTH sides of the equation as I clearly demonstrate in the link.



Facts or it didn't happen.  Stop with the FUD.  You are acting like a scared cat backed into the corner.

They had $500,000 in purchases.  Money sent as part of a purchase or sale is not considered money transmission under federal regulations.  I don't know the specifics of Virginia law, but Tangible Cryptography seems to have competent legal counsel advising them on these issues.

You aren't merely a user.  By your self described actions you regularly exchange virtual currency for real currency and as such are an exchanger which by FinCEN (somewhat convoluted logic) makes you a MSB.


You exchanged virtual currency for real currency.  You did so for profit.  You did so regularly.  You are by FinCEN logic an "exchanger".


Please register with FinCEN since you want to be helpful. 

First of all that is a guidance letter not the law.  The law is what I quoted.  Second what goods or services did you exchange for those BTC you acquired?  None.  You exchanged "real" currency for virtual currency.  That doesn't make you a "user" under FinCEN guidelines that makes you an "exchanger".  Thus you are required to register as an MSB.  You are exchanging real currency for virtual currency on a regular basis in a for profit enterprise.  So once again why haven't you registered as a MSB?  Furthermore since you believe state regulation also applies why haven't you sought out MT licensing in all the states where you have conducted business?

Out of context?  You should know the context.  It is the federal regulations regarding MSB, specifically the definition of a MSB.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=ca4e780fee426d02f64ec9605cd7bc5d&rgn=div8&view=text&node=31:3.1.6.1.2.1.3.1&idno=31

Per FinCEN the exchange of virtual currencies for real currency is a money transmitter.  Money transmitter is an activity which makes one a Money Service Business.  The definition of MSB doesn't exclude individuals.  I mean think about that as a second, if it did then the massive loophole would just to not form an LLC or Corporation and act as an individual owner.  Laws never hold LLC & Corporations to some unique standard.  The standard applies to "persons" and Corporations are merely a legal person. 

So I ask again since you are so knowledgable about MT regulations ... where is your MSB registration?

I think you are well aware of what you are doing and how you are breaking the law.  It is clear that your greed will be your downfall.

Users of Virtual Currency

            A user who obtains convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods or services is not an MSB under FinCEN's regulations.8 Such activity, in and of itself, does not fit within the definition of "money transmission services" and therefore is not subject to FinCEN's registration, reporting, and recordkeeping regulations for MSBs.9

WOW, you SURE DO KNOW HOW TO PULL THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT.  May we have the rest of that so the world can see that you are trying to bullshit us?

So by your logic if I dissolved TC, LLC and operated FC4B exactly the same as an individual, no federal laws would apply?


As you indicated you are regularly buying Bitcoin not through registered exchanges, hence you are a MSB.  Please take your own advice and begin with registering with FinCEN.

Exactly you would be a sole propreitorship.  The lack of a business account, or coproration doesn't magic away any regulatory requirements.  You are engaged in the business of regularly purchasing Bitcoins from individuals not through the use of a registered exchange or broker.  So why haven't you taken your own "research" to heart.

Let me know when you take the first step and register as a MSB with FinCEN.

Federal law does NOT regulate the individual buying and selling of bitcoin.  It's clear that you don't know the law, I agree.

Look of the definition of Sole Proprietor in ANY state.

To your further snotty comment, perhaps you should actually read my posts.  I call out scammers regularly.  In this case I'm warning the world of the dangers of dealing with non-licensed money transmitters like yourself.  I stated publicly that ALL non-licensed entities like your will soon be shut down... seeking that post now...


In my search I came across this EXCITING NEWS:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2013-05-21-bitcoin-magazine-bitinstant-licensed-money-transmitter-in-30-states-214056

Look, somebody who actually follows the law KUDO'S BITINSTANT!

Federal law (and to my knowledge state law) makes no distinction between individuals and LLCs (and corporations, partnerships, etc).  Maybe you should register as a MSB since you are so worried about "helping" everyone else?  I also find it interesting that the focus of your "help" is only in threads related to our company.  Why are you not equally helping MtGox, bitstamp, coinbase, et all?  US law treats foreign entities equal to domestic ones so your (ill researched) conclusions would apply to every bitcoin related enterprise (including your own).

I am in NO way competing with this company.  I am personally buying btc in several threads, that is all.  You will not find a post anywhere in these or any threads where I offer to sell BTC that I am aware of.  Further I am an individual and not subject to the same rules as companies.  I sent you a pm goat, it read this:

"Do you think I'm wrong with my post?

I am not doing this to shut them down.  I legitimately tried to warn D&T that he is in danger and he spit on me."

You can think as you wish.  I asked the mods if my posts were against the rules and they said no.  Bring it on, I am happy to devend my position.  Or you can read the analysis here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2267622

Yea, too bad they are unlicensed:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/trading-with-non-license-money-transmitters-aka-lending-btc-to-anyone-215951


I tried to warn the OP that it appears they are in clear violation of the law but he chose to attack the messenger with the following brilliance:


Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: Viceroy on: Today at 03:57:53 PM »
Your help is neither wanted nor needed.  Please stop.  It gets annoying to have our company PM inbox blasted with your nonsense.  I tried explaining, I tried ignoring.  Now I am being direct.  I am directly asking you to never PM this account again.  If you do I will ask the mods to consider it spam.

Thank You,

Staff

Tangible Cryptography

=============


This is what I sent that warranted such an illuminated response:


New York conviction

According to records from the U.S. Justice Department, on July 27, 2006, Budovsky and a partner identified as Vladimir Kats were indicted by the state of New York on charges of operating an illegal financial business, GoldAge Inc., from their Brooklyn apartments.

They had transmitted at least $30 million to digital currency accounts worldwide since beginning operations in 2002.

The digital currency exchange, GoldAge, received and transmitted $4 million between Jan. 1, 2006, and June 30, 2006, as part of the money laundering scheme.

Customers opened online GoldAge accounts with limited documentation of identity, then GoldAge purchased digital gold currency through those accounts; the defendants' fees sometimes exceeded $100,000.

Customers could choose their method of payment to GoldAge: wire remittances, cash deposits, postal money orders or checks.

Finally, the customers could withdraw the money by requesting wire transfers to accounts anywhere in the world or by having checks sent to any identified individual.

Budovsky and Kats were sentenced to five years in prison for engaging in the business of transmitting money without a license, a felony violation of state banking law, but got probation.

http://www.ticotimes.net/More-news/News-Briefs/Costa-Rican-arrested-in-Spain-for-alleged-financial-crimes_Friday-May-24-2013


=============



I don't know about you, but didn't tangible just admit above that they just transmitted $500,000 last week?  Maybe they think Virginia's laws are different then NY?  Oh well, just trying to help those who may be less familiar with the law.

 

Looks like you guys have zeroed in on a real demand.

Arrived and paid.   Sorry.

Due to the holiday weekend we will not have any payments posting to our funding accounts until Tuesday.  It was a record week for us we did just under $500,000 in transactions for the week.  
All payment options are exhausted until Tuesday.

Any news on those dwolla funds?

Just a reminder, monday is a bank and postal holiday. 
We will not have any PayPal or Dwolla funds posting on Monday. 
Checks in route on Monday will not be delivered until Tuesday.

Update:
Additional PayPal & Check funds available.
Dwolla funds will be available 05/24.

Update:
PayPal has updated their estimate for available funds to 05/23.

Fund for company check are available.
Additional funds for PayPal payment will be available 05/23.
Additional funds for Dwolla payment will be available 05/24.

Too. Much. Bootstrap. I'll take a look but seeing a default bootstrap template doesn't inspire me a lot of safety. Looks like several people is using it though.

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