FBI uses bitcoin mixers from forfeiture processing.

ilovealtcoins

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Quote from: davis196 on April 14, 2021, 07:07:38 AM

Quote from: ilovealtcoins on April 14, 2021, 06:55:14 AM

Bitcoin is a currency, a digital asset. The seizure of Bitcoin caused by crime needs to be turned into the property and included in the national budget. In this case, it is legal to use a mixer to make money illegally. No one has an opinion on this issue because it benefits the national budget.

Dude,your post doesn't make any sense.
"It is legal to use a mixer to make money legally"?What does that supposed to mean? Huh

"No one has an opinion on this issue because it benefits the national budget."What?I have an opinion about this topic and it's quite different.
The Bitcoins,that were stolen by the criminals have to be returned to their owners,instead of being included in the national budget.This makes the government a stealer of Bitcoins. Grin

Anyway,this article about FBI is probably fake news,published by an "anti-Bitcoin Core" website.

Exactly they would launder money and make them part of the budget in my opinion. Cryptocurrency is a digital asset that if someone wants to get their money back, it will take them a lot of time and effort to get their money back. I think the reimbursement is complicated and the FBI probably won't do it.

stompix

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The article has been updated...

First, the claim was that:

Quote

Interestingly, Davis’ findings indicate the blockchain tells a tale of how the transactions the Feds sent were sent “to themselves,” from an address that sent “more than 800,000 transactions,” and the funds derived from an address that sent more than 43 million BTC. The tell-tale signs of a bitcoin mixer being used to obfuscate bitcoin transactions.

This is stupid, no bitcoin mixer uses the same address o send millions of transactions, it would be a clear sign and would render all privacy effort useless.

The:

Quote

**Editor’s Note: This article has been updated on Tuesday, April 13, 2021, at 1:00 p.m. (EST) to reflect commentary from an onchain expert.
On April 13, 2021, Bitcoin.com spoke with a respected onchain analyst who wished to remain unnamed. The expert says they are “certain that the address known as 1P9**** belongs to an exchange and the address was a hot wallet.” This specific address referenced is the BTC address that had processed 43 million bitcoin (BTC).

So, poor Davis was not a real researcher just a wanna-be blogger and no, the FBI has not used a mixer.

/lock the topic

lifeforcepools

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I don't quite understand how they use bitcoin, but okay ,maybe you're right.

bobyhodob

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crimes in the world of cryptocurency may still be traced from the former transactions they carried out and continue to trace until they reach the wallet suffix and who knows the account is linked to an American bank

Kong Hey Pakboy

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Quote from: jerry0 on April 15, 2021, 01:18:20 AM

I gotta wonder... do some fbi agents take some btc for themselves like imagine how some police bust a drug deal operation with cash etc... like imagine they take some of it?

We don't know that but we know that evidence room is a secured space on any law enforcement agency so it is highly unlikely, also I don't think that they are going to risk it because the benefits of being a federal agent is sought by many people and a little greed won't be enough to put it all down the drain.

jerry0

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I gotta wonder... do some fbi agents take some btc for themselves like imagine how some police bust a drug deal operation with cash etc... like imagine they take some of it?

zanezane

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Quote from: jackg on April 14, 2021, 08:01:29 AM

Proceeds of crime normally get seized by the government in North America and Europe. They're just treating bitcoin as a standard asset (which is pretty good).

One of the problems wuth the Silk Road one though was that they sold it for 75% of its value from what I remember which was a bit strange/problematic as it could've caused a dump...

It really is a good thing especially if you know where they sell or auction these seizures because most of the time when the investigation is over and they need to free some room for new evidences, they will sell or auction them. I would say that you are right about the Silk Road one because back when I have read about it, the price of bitcoin was already around the 5 digit mark and the price was a steal.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: davis196 on April 14, 2021, 07:07:38 AM

The Bitcoins,that were stolen by the criminals have to be returned to their owners,instead of being included in the national budget.This makes the government a stealer of Bitcoins. Grin

Proceeds of crime normally get seized by the government in North America and Europe. They're just treating bitcoin as a standard asset (which is pretty good).

One of the problems wuth the Silk Road one though was that they sold it for 75% of its value from what I remember which was a bit strange/problematic as it could've caused a dump...

davis196

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Quote from: ilovealtcoins on April 14, 2021, 06:55:14 AM

Bitcoin is a currency, a digital asset. The seizure of Bitcoin caused by crime needs to be turned into the property and included in the national budget. In this case, it is legal to use a mixer to make money illegally. No one has an opinion on this issue because it benefits the national budget.

Dude,your post doesn't make any sense.
"It is legal to use a mixer to make money legally"?What does that supposed to mean? Huh

"No one has an opinion on this issue because it benefits the national budget."What?I have an opinion about this topic and it's quite different.
The Bitcoins,that were stolen by the criminals have to be returned to their owners,instead of being included in the national budget.This makes the government a stealer of Bitcoins. Grin

Anyway,this article about FBI is probably fake news,published by an "anti-Bitcoin Core" website.

ilovealtcoins

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Bitcoin is a currency, a digital asset. The seizure of Bitcoin caused by crime needs to be turned into the property and included in the national budget. In this case, it is legal to use a mixer to make money illegally. No one has an opinion on this issue because it benefits the national budget.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

When determining the security of a technology that has already made it into mainstream media, USE MAINSTREAM MEDIA TO DETERMINE HOW SECURE IT IS, OFFICIAL GIT ISSUES, OR VERIFIABLE ALGORITHMIC PROOF.

Using a random news source to find out how transactions can be "forfeited" isn't a great idea especially when it mentions transactions being forfeited.

I'm pretty sure a lot of sites like BBC news were reporting on the chain attacks in 2015 - rely on those when measuring SECURITY of a new innovative tool.

If the FBI has an idea of something HALF OF THE senior ATTACKERS HAVE ALREADY DONE IT.

buwaytress

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Quote from: DarkDays on April 13, 2021, 05:31:02 PM

Talking about raising an eyebrow - the source isn't the most legit one either, so the views here are for the argument sake only.

Aye, they're a bit better than the general lot, and if it's informed sources being used, then I'm okay to take it at face value, just perhaps there's a lot more to the story than is being let on. Pretty sure FBI/CIA/whomever will have experimented plenty with mixers already to know enough, though so not discounting they'd consider using it.

Quote from: DarkDays on April 13, 2021, 05:31:02 PM

On the other hand, getting rid of these tagged tokens wouldn't be much of an issue since many people would for sure queue up for BTC specially given its latest rally.

Fungibility at its finest.

electronicash

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Quote from: Wexnident on April 14, 2021, 03:15:44 AM

That's odd, wasn't there some info on how confiscated Bitcoin was auctioned by the government so that they can be labeled as "clean" again? Idk what the purpose of them mixing their coins in the mixer then. I also hardly doubt that even with mixers, the FBI (or any central organization) would get away with stealing publicly claimed confiscated coins since the blockchain is completely transparent. It'd be rather easy for them to be traced, and just like this, could easily be blamed for them trying to steal the coins confiscated.

It's rather understandable for the government to steal billions via fiat since that's been happening forever, but with crypto and its transparency? Doubt that. They hate anything that can be traced publicly with a passion since that basically restricts them.

we don't know how dumb they could be. the agents who stole some BTC from the seized Silk Road stash actually were caught for sending it directly to an exchange. that could be sort of a lesson for them and i guess they'd be cautious from then on. if they have read online that mixers are available to avoid getting traced, they will try mixing it. but then this article is from bcash shill.

Wexnident

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That's odd, wasn't there some info on how confiscated Bitcoin was auctioned by the government so that they can be labeled as "clean" again? Idk what the purpose of them mixing their coins in the mixer then. I also hardly doubt that even with mixers, the FBI (or any central organization) would get away with stealing publicly claimed confiscated coins since the blockchain is completely transparent. It'd be rather easy for them to be traced, and just like this, could easily be blamed for them trying to steal the coins confiscated.

It's rather understandable for the government to steal billions via fiat since that's been happening forever, but with crypto and its transparency? Doubt that. They hate anything that can be traced publicly with a passion since that basically restricts them.

Lorence.xD

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Quote from: Woodie on April 14, 2021, 02:37:54 AM

Quote from: Lorence.xD on April 14, 2021, 01:43:22 AM

~

Clean to auction sounds like a good reason but those forfeited coins going for a cheaper price I don't think so , should be sold at market value.

That's what happened to the bitcoin that was seized in the Silkroad, I don't know if that is still the case to this day because most of the time evidence that are seized and auctioned are cheper since they have the crimes associated with it.

Woodie

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Why would they mix the coins in the first place? Is someone from the FBI trying to keep some of the coins to themselves with the split transaction feature that comes with most of the mixers....

Quote from: Lorence.xD on April 14, 2021, 01:43:22 AM

I think the reason for that mixing is that they are auctioning those bitcoins at a lower price as far as I know, I think there were some prominent people that participated in the auction back then.

Clean to auction sounds like a good reason but those forfeited coins going for a cheaper price I don't think so , should be sold at market value.

Lorence.xD

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I think the reason for that mixing is that they are auctioning those bitcoins at a lower price as far as I know, I think there were some prominent people that participated in the auction back then.

DoublerHunter

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^ That is right and the BTC mixer is probably a washing machine. I have been thinking of valid reasons the FBI uses this service. Transparency-wise, they lose. But for me, this is not new and probably most Americans are not surprised, even when fiat was the main thing, these people did what they did and the process still goes. Do they think that people are the same as dumb as before? No way, we have evolved and probably transparency is the best thing they can give especially they are public servants. I hope this one will have a good resolve.

DarkDays

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Quote from: buwaytress on April 13, 2021, 05:50:43 AM

Wouldn't be surprised if FBI or anyone in regulations would try to mix coins, since they were the ones questioning fungibility at some point. Not sure anyone cares now at this point.

I agree, I wouldn't be much surprised even if FBI federals were taking part in such a shady activity. At the end of the day, the tracing is not as visible as with fiat but it does make you question things.

Talking about raising an eyebrow - the source isn't the most legit one either, so the views here are for the argument sake only.

Quote

I'd certainly buy tagged coins if they came at a cheaper price. But would be very surprised if they used any of the "commercial" ones that suffer from a chronological path shortcoming that would be easier to breakdown in tracing.

On the other hand, getting rid of these tagged tokens wouldn't be much of an issue since many people would for sure queue up for BTC specially given its latest rally.

lionheart78

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Quote from: In the silence on April 13, 2021, 04:38:36 AM

Why would they do that? Arrested person from doing criminal activities do that, so why do they? 🤣

One simple answer, they wanted to pocket the confiscated BTC. On the brighter side, I guess they wanted to wash out the history of that BTC, probably they think it as a new start Roll Eyes

.

Quote from: In the silence on April 13, 2021, 04:38:36 AM

No transparency is a corrupted system.

Some part of the government system had been rotten ever since. No government can claim that they aren't corrupt or whatsoever especially the financial institution.

Topic: FBI uses bitcoin mixers from forfeiture processing. (Read 358 times)