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Topic: Fees are killing/have killed Bitcoin.... it is sad but true. - page 4. (Read 736 times)

legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1317
Get your game girl
But back in the real world people work with whole numbers and they all know that more or less a
GBP=EUR=USD and this is what 99% of people get paid in and it does not take a genius to see
that Bitcoin has become your religion.
Back in the real world people don't use bitcoin and nerd around with the network fees they're not sure about.Comparing pigs to cows are we now ? Not hard to tell you're delusioned by the government created paper which is ruling everything around you.

I put real money into the machine so fees shown like that are fine with me
No one asked you to do that.They don't work that way.
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 5
Is the lightning network going to be implemented at all? And if yes, then when and under what conditions?

You better hope NOT and this guy only scratches the surface of whats wrong with it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g

.......

Notice the abuse I get, don't shoot the postman  
Sadly that is exactly the way I'm thinking about the lightning network. For me it's not a solution it's the final nail in the coffin. Sad

full member
Activity: 206
Merit: 100
there making to much money why would the miners change things .

This is a common misconception. Miners have no control over: 1. The exchange rate (price) of Bitcoin; or (2) The fees.

So who has control? The answer to both questions is: "The market."

The actual fees are set by the people who create transactions. That is, the people who send bitcoin, meaning you and me. Perhaps not completely, since we use wallets, and most wallets are very "helpful" in calculating the appropriate fee. The publishers of the wallet software could have more influence on fees, but only when they work together, because if everyone else is sending a higher fee, then your transaction will never get confirmed.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3014
Welt Am Draht
What will the store of value use case alone do for bitcoin's price? Who knows? Maybe prevent it from rising back toward 20K levels, maybe level it out at 10kish or fall even lower.

It will drive the price fucking insane. Even if fees were much lower, no one is going to use an appreciating asset to buy their toilet paper. For better or worse Bitcoin is being treated like an asset by most people and the upside for that is ludicrous still.

I agree that fees do make it impractical in general for pure utility use such as moving it, but merchant acceptance has always been a pointless, if convenient for some, sideshow. It's not the main game at this point in time.
full member
Activity: 336
Merit: 100
You said it man. Bitcoin's sole use-case right now is a store of value. That won't change unless scaling is fixed.

What will the store of value use case alone do for bitcoin's price? Who knows? Maybe prevent it from rising back toward 20K levels, maybe level it out at 10kish or fall even lower.
full member
Activity: 420
Merit: 110
Only a few years ago we had a growing number of shops here in berlin that you were able to buy food and/or drinks from for bitcoin. Right now there are no more of these stores left. And most of the sellers I used to buy things from on the big marketplaces now refuse to trade bitcoin too and changed to etherium. I know for those people that think that bitcoin is the new gold it is not that bad but bitcoin was "released" to be something completely different. Right now bitcoin is no real crypto currency at all. Buy a coffee for 2,5 bucks and pay 25 bucks fee.... sure.......... In my opinion bitcoin completely failed because of these fees and I sold every last satoshi and invested in other crypto currencies. Is there a single reason to stick to bitcoin? If yes, please feel free to tell me!


The huge fees is getting its solution I think its the chronic disease of FUD's that is killing bitcoin in general. If we see as a whole today there are lot of people involved in crypto trading so just a slightest of a rumour is more than enough to burn the whole market these days. Fees problems is getting solutions like the lightning network and segwit. Segwit itself has been good at removing high fees problems.
member
Activity: 210
Merit: 26
High fees = low BTC price
Just so you know ,bitcoin is also a currency which has it's own standard ways of addressing it's smaller subsets that are agreed upon by the community.I don't think it takes a genius to just use a currency calculator. https://99bitcoins.com/satoshi-usd-converter/
But back in the real world people work with whole numbers and they all know that more or less a
GBP=EUR=USD and this is what 99% of people get paid in and it does not take a genius to see
that Bitcoin has become your religion.

I put real money into the machine so fees shown like that are fine with me


member
Activity: 210
Merit: 26
High fees = low BTC price
Is the lightning network going to be implemented at all? And if yes, then when and under what conditions?

You better hope NOT and this guy only scratches the surface of whats wrong with it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g
or you can read the noddy version where Bob falls in Love with Alice and they play Ping-Pong
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/understanding-the-lightning-network-part-completing-the-puzzle-and-closing-the-channel-1466178980/
Here is the white-paper https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf
But if you want my version then see my post here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.28395400

Notice the abuse I get, don't shoot the postman  

legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1317
Get your game girl
Quote
The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 220 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.
For the median transaction size of 225 bytes, this results in a fee of 49,500 satoshis.

I am not a human calculator so how do you get from 49,500 to $6 and why don't they just show in
in the first place
Just so you know ,bitcoin is also a currency which has it's own standard ways of addressing it's smaller subsets that are agreed upon by the community.I don't think it takes a genius to just use a currency calculator. https://99bitcoins.com/satoshi-usd-converter/

Also most of the bitcoin wallets use sats as an input element to mention the transaction fees so just copy pasting that number becomes easier.
legendary
Activity: 1876
Merit: 3132
When did you send you last transaction? What services do you use to estimate your fees? People are simply overpaying for their transactions. I have seen quite a few transactions which were confirmed with a fee 60 sat/b so it isn't a lot. Most of the exchanges and web wallets don't allow you to use your custom fee. There is no room for small transactions in Bitcoin these days so that is why we need Lightning Network which aims at making micro-transactions possible. Give it some time, don't overpay.
sr. member
Activity: 602
Merit: 250
This is true.. but fees are not the only issue that are really killing bitcoin at the moment.

Take a look over the blocksizes at the moment, they are really a shit over the entire bitcoin system right now.

No offense, but the only thing that can make bitcoin go up again is just the Lightning network.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 11
Only a few years ago we had a growing number of shops here in Berlin that you were able to buy food and/or drinks from for bitcoin. Right now there are no more of these stores left. And most of the sellers I used to buy things from on the big marketplaces now refuse to trade bitcoin too and changed to etherium. I know for those people that think that bitcoin is the new gold it is not that bad but bitcoin was "released" to be something completely different. Right now bitcoin is no real crypto currency at all. Buy a coffee for 2,5 bucks and pay 25 bucks fee.... sure.......... In my opinion, bitcoin completely failed because of these fees and I sold every last satoshi and invested in other crypto currencies. Is there a single reason to stick to bitcoin? If yes, please feel free to tell me!



Yes, the price fee is high because Bitcoin price was boosted from last year and now every single market, pub, restaurant etc. who manage to have Bitcoin paying machine want to make a profit with fees. Just keep in mind some of this markets, pubs, restaurants pay fees to their country, so their logic is that you pay a fee for coffee, Bitcoin transaction and country fee.
So this provides them to make their profit without fees.
member
Activity: 210
Merit: 26
High fees = low BTC price
Yes fees have killed it and sent me off down the road of looking at the Lightning Network
and for those of you who don't know yet it includes banking hubs and not just Bob and Alice
like they want you to believe https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.28395400

the fees are 6 bucks for a median transaction

https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/

it says
Quote
The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 220 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.
For the median transaction size of 225 bytes, this results in a fee of 49,500 satoshis.

I am not a human calculator so how do you get from 49,500 to $6 and why don't they just show in
in the first place
full member
Activity: 274
Merit: 100
Definetely an issue worth solving.
For now, im holding and trading only the extreme price changes.

They need to fix this asap before all this shit gets out of control.
It has been more than 10 days since i do not use bitcoin because i do not want to spend more than $15 just for the fees, but yes, it is innevitable after all.
Anyway, they are not soooo expensive.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3014
Welt Am Draht
Is the lightning network going to be implemented at all? And if yes, then when and under what conditions?

It's on the mainnet in a reckless and experimental form right now. Don't expect any type of formal roll out. It's being worked on by multiple teams and will take quite some time to smooth out.
sr. member
Activity: 1162
Merit: 252
there making to much money why would the miners change things .Until they is a uproar and nobody uses bitcoin because of it nothing will happen
sr. member
Activity: 387
Merit: 250
Presale is live!
This is a big problem. Segwit and lightning should help.
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
As you said, bitcoin was killed by more its high transaction fee so now people are moving from bitcoin to other coins that's why the price keeps falling.But it is just temporary problem and it can be solved to great extend if all people start to use segwit wallets then legacy.But the permanent solution will be the implementation of lightning network.
Is the lightning network going to be implemented at all? And if yes, then when and under what conditions?
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3014
Welt Am Draht
What is Layer 2 stuff ? Are your thoughts about conventional blockchain based off facts or just an assumption ?

Lightning networks.

Conventional blockchains are Bitcoin, which can't scale in its current form. The next most used blockchain is Ethereum which also can't scale in its current form.

Those are the only two that have been used to the maximum of their capacity. All of the conventional blockchains have a hard limit. I dunno about DAG stuff and none of them have been tested in the wild.
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 5
The sellers need to accept Dogecoin to buy food / drinks and micro transactions

1 cent fee
I really love doge and it's crazy community but for some strange reason not too many people seem to like doge. :/

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