Fees - I Think We All Been Scammed | Bitcointalksearch.org

GreenBits

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Quote from: Lucky7btc on July 19, 2017, 09:03:27 AM

A few months ago there was this bit craze about fees and how fees was outrageous. People were chasing fees just to send the smallest of bitcoins. Then several threads start appearing about using other currencies like LTC, ETH, DOGE, etc. I've noticed for the last 2 weeks I have been able to send btc with only a .07 cent fee tied to it and they were getting confirmed in only a few blocks. Whereas If i tried this mess a few months ago it would sit for hrs if not days. I think those behind the scene were scamming us and controlling the flow of inputs just to fu^k us over!

i think its more tied to the demand, and traffic at the given time. when there isnt a lot of competition for blocks, you can get away with a nothing fee. but with all the volatility of late, people are actually using the network, most likely to trade. its also a lame byproduct of the price getting high; when the price doubles, the min fee doubles. how do you think the fees look now to people that purchase sub 100 dollar bitcoin? they were making transactions for fractions of a cent; the difference in value is more than some people actually paid for bitcoin, in the beginning Wink

and if we had bigger blocks.....

coinenthu

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There is something called IOTA which claims there wont be any fees on their technology

The One

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Quote from: Lucky7btc on July 19, 2017, 09:03:27 AM

A few months ago there was this bit craze about fees and how fees was outrageous. People were chasing fees just to send the smallest of bitcoins. Then several threads start appearing about using other currencies like LTC, ETH, DOGE, etc. I've noticed for the last 2 weeks I have been able to send btc with only a .07 cent fee tied to it and they were getting confirmed in only a few blocks. Whereas If i tried this mess a few months ago it would sit for hrs if not days. I think those behind the scene were scamming us and controlling the flow of inputs just to fu^k us over!

Blame Core developers. Changing the fee structure into "fee market", with complicated fee structures, caused the fees to rise and scammers to abuse the "fee market."

fearcoka

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Quote from: Tyrantt on July 19, 2017, 01:19:40 PM

Fees are high yes but isn't that why the segwit is being implemented ? To reduce the transaction time and the fees, to sllow the blocks bigger than the 2MB?

The reason SegWit2x want fix issue about time confirm transaction, fees and blocksize. About blocksize is main reason make all issue, because small block will make very hard for miner confirm and always make crash when have a huge transaction need confirm. And when this time happening, need spent more fees and wating more time to sending Bitcoin

Tyrantt

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Need some spare btc for a new PC

Fees are high yes but isn't that why the segwit is being implemented ? To reduce the transaction time and the fees, to sllow the blocks bigger than the 2MB?

EastBirth

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What if it is not a scam ? Rather people trying to manipulate the fees ? I have no idea how. To me that makes more sense then saying it is a scam. Maybe I group of miners spammed like uses here are telling about. Like a DDOS bit for network fees ?? I am not sure I am no expert. I just guess with logic. One thing is sure, that it is strange. Something surely is going on behind the scenes we don't know about it.

Xavofat

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Did you see that ludicrous display last night?

Quote from: Zicadis on July 19, 2017, 10:48:34 AM

Quote from: Xavofat on July 19, 2017, 10:12:52 AM

Quote from: chichidori on July 19, 2017, 10:06:53 AM

blockchain.info also have high fees.

Blockchain.info is not an exchange, and you can set whatever fees you like.

Quote from: williamuk on July 19, 2017, 09:33:35 AM

Edit to add: the spam allegations are misdirections coming from the usual corner

Yes, because this address looks like the user is making some lovely transactions to their many, many friends.

wow, over 200 thousand transactions in roughly six months :-\and are you insinuating that this user was a segwit supporter

I think it's impossible to judge who it was. It's possible that it was a group of miners, because they rake in transaction fees. Whether or not the attacks were from people supporting a certain scaling solution we don't know.

Quote from: Zicadis on July 19, 2017, 10:48:34 AM

In as much as this could be said as a spam attack bitcoin should prove itself to the world that it can handle such transactions regardless, but whatever their intentions were... things have improved a lot and network should be able to handle the load

Bitcoin can currently handle the same amount of transactions as it could before. Post-SegWit and post-block size increase, it will change, but spam attacks will still be possible.

Quote from: williamuk on July 19, 2017, 10:28:20 AM

Sorry but no, the spam claims are a a misdirection.

Care to provide any actual evidence for this or just an assertion? Does that address look legitimate to you?

Quote from: williamuk on July 19, 2017, 10:28:20 AM

Bitcoin didn't have the capacity and it's as simple as that. Occam's razor.

Occam's razor is not applicable here. A spam attack is a very simple explanation, and you've made the vague assumption that a large number of people have started using Bitcoin even though they're not identifiable.

jt byte

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Quote from: Ayers on July 19, 2017, 09:44:04 AM

Quote from: jt byte on July 19, 2017, 09:39:03 AM

I noticed this too. I sent a transaction yesterday with a 0.00002btc(which is $0.04) by accident and did not notice it until it was too late.
To my surprise when I when to the via accelerator site to so called push the transaction to my surprise it said it was confirmed already.

I do think the miners fees are in somewhat in league with each other and these transactions can be sent without much if anything but $0.02 worth of bitcoin if you wanted to put on as the transaction fee if you wanted it to and they will confirm within 20 minutes if not sooner.

i still see very high fee, where do you see such low fee? fee is in range of 0.0005 at least if not more, but some miners can confirm lower fee transaction, from time to time, but perhaps right now that the amount tx was reduced because of the dump and the chain split, miners are more permissive

What?
If you use a wallet where you are allowed to modify your own fees to what you want to pay out to them then you can add whatever you like to them.
This does not mean it will ever get confirmed and could just as more likely to get stuck in the blockchain and then you will lose your bitcoin anyways.
As i said. This was in error of myself mistyping the fee to apply. But it got confirmed anyways by the luck of the draw just when segwit was activated I am assuming.

eternalgloom

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Quote from: williamuk on July 19, 2017, 10:28:20 AM

Quote from: Xavofat on July 19, 2017, 10:12:52 AM

Quote from: chichidori on July 19, 2017, 10:06:53 AM

blockchain.info also have high fees.

Blockchain.info is not an exchange, and you can set whatever fees you like.

Quote from: williamuk on July 19, 2017, 09:33:35 AM

Edit to add: the spam allegations are misdirections coming from the usual corner

Yes, because this address looks like the user is making some lovely transactions to their many, many friends.

There was blatantly a spam attack. And the fact that BTC transactions became nice and cheap again right after a scaling solution (SegWitx2) was found says quite a lot about what those transactions were.

Sorry but no, the spam claims are a a misdirection.

With mainstream exposure came a vanguard of finance industry speculators who started testing it, not buy and hold individuals but quant types. They couldn't get started... Bitcoin didn't have the capacity and it's as simple as that. Occam's razor.

There was actually a spam attack, you can even look for messages from the group that was orchestrating it.
You should be able to find some info on this forum, I forgot the name of the group, but it was definitely a spam attack.

And it wasn't about testing the network or something like that.

Zicadis

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Dump it!!!

Quote from: Xavofat on July 19, 2017, 10:12:52 AM

Quote from: chichidori on July 19, 2017, 10:06:53 AM

blockchain.info also have high fees.

Blockchain.info is not an exchange, and you can set whatever fees you like.

Quote from: williamuk on July 19, 2017, 09:33:35 AM

Edit to add: the spam allegations are misdirections coming from the usual corner

Yes, because this address looks like the user is making some lovely transactions to their many, many friends.

wow, over 200 thousand transactions in roughly six months :-\and are you insinuating that this user was a segwit supporter

Quote from: Xavofat on July 19, 2017, 10:12:52 AM

There was blatantly a spam attack. And the fact that BTC transactions became nice and cheap again right after a scaling solution (SegWitx2) was found says quite a lot about what those transactions were.

In as much as this could be said as a spam attack bitcoin should prove itself to the world that it can handle such transactions regardless, but whatever their intentions were... things have improved a lot and network should be able to handle the load

Mahanton

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Quote from: Lucky7btc on July 19, 2017, 09:03:27 AM

A few months ago there was this bit craze about fees and how fees was outrageous. People were chasing fees just to send the smallest of bitcoins. Then several threads start appearing about using other currencies like LTC, ETH, DOGE, etc. I've noticed for the last 2 weeks I have been able to send btc with only a .07 cent fee tied to it and they were getting confirmed in only a few blocks. Whereas If i tried this mess a few months ago it would sit for hrs if not days. I think those behind the scene were scamming us and controlling the flow of inputs just to fu^k us over!

I dont think soo that they are just f^cking us over on those times. You do see that there are lots of unconfirmed or spams transactions in the network which those miners do go with the flow and do demand higher tx fees which would users would not have any choices but to pay up those fees. Seeing on the situation as of now, theres no congestion on the network and normally those miners will only demand small fees because if they do still need high tx fee then i would really assume thats already a scam.

nizamcc

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It always looked to me a way of snatching our Bitcoins which were an attempt by those third party mediators that we used to store our bitcoins at. But I was lucky somewhere because I had them stored at few exchanges where I used to trade alts and only redeemed them when I wanted to sell them for fiat. Even I don't understand that why those days we were paying such high fees, especially those recommended ones but currently seeing least fees being able to confirm my transactions in minutes, makes me think that it was all a plan made to collect our coins in a scandalous manner.

Boseda

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Yes, these days are a way better than some week ago. This is mainly due to the fact Bitcoin transactions are less than then. Anyway, confirmation time still takes too long and there are many cases where a transaction is still not confirmed after 10 minutes (as it was planned to be) . But things can only get better if segwit2x will be activated.

So I wouldn't say we've been scammed...

David Rabahy

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Every so often I send a zero-fee transaction into the system to see how long it takes to confirm; it was for a legit purpose to move some idle Bitcoin from one wallet I didn't want to use anymore into another. Last time I tried it in April it took *only* 11 days.

Clearly the fees, e.g. https://bitcoinfees.21.co/ & https://blockchain.info/charts/transaction-fees, don't come down as fast as they went up. If more users would try lower fees and see they do get their transactions confirmed in reasonable amounts of time then the meme would counteract the one driving the fees higher. What's needed is a chart comparing transactions waiting to be confirmed vs. fees waiting over time.

It's a little like those gas price websites. If more people checked them before blindly paying a higher price at the conveniently located station then that would create consumer pressure to drive prices down.

Our wallet software is offering default fee calculations that are too high. Moreover, perhaps unintentionally, they drive the fee calculation up in a reverse auction effect. Even worse, our wallet software resists making it convenient to reduce the fee if we want to try for a lower one.

williamuk

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Quote from: Xavofat on July 19, 2017, 10:12:52 AM

Quote from: chichidori on July 19, 2017, 10:06:53 AM

blockchain.info also have high fees.

Blockchain.info is not an exchange, and you can set whatever fees you like.

Quote from: williamuk on July 19, 2017, 09:33:35 AM

Edit to add: the spam allegations are misdirections coming from the usual corner

Yes, because this address looks like the user is making some lovely transactions to their many, many friends.

There was blatantly a spam attack. And the fact that BTC transactions became nice and cheap again right after a scaling solution (SegWitx2) was found says quite a lot about what those transactions were.

Sorry but no, the spam claims are a a misdirection.

With mainstream exposure came a vanguard of finance industry speculators who started testing it, not buy and hold individuals but quant types. They couldn't get started... Bitcoin didn't have the capacity and it's as simple as that. Occam's razor.

Edit to add: you might not know that but the low tax jurisdiction of Luxemburg is a big clue

Lucky7btc

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Quote from: Xavofat on July 19, 2017, 10:12:52 AM

Quote from: chichidori on July 19, 2017, 10:06:53 AM

blockchain.info also have high fees.

Blockchain.info is not an exchange, and you can set whatever fees you like.

Quote from: williamuk on July 19, 2017, 09:33:35 AM

Edit to add: the spam allegations are misdirections coming from the usual corner

Yes, because this address looks like the user is making some lovely transactions to their many, many friends.

There was blatantly a spam attack. And the fact that BTC transactions became nice and cheap again right after a scaling solution (SegWitx2) was found says quite a lot about what those transactions were.

I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!!

Xavofat

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Did you see that ludicrous display last night?

Quote from: chichidori on July 19, 2017, 10:06:53 AM

blockchain.info also have high fees.

Blockchain.info is not an exchange, and you can set whatever fees you like.

Quote from: williamuk on July 19, 2017, 09:33:35 AM

Edit to add: the spam allegations are misdirections coming from the usual corner

Yes, because this address looks like the user is making some lovely transactions to their many, many friends.

There was blatantly a spam attack. And the fact that BTC transactions became nice and cheap again right after a scaling solution (SegWitx2) was found says quite a lot about what those transactions were.

chichidori

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Exchanges are imposing high fees bittrex is the lowest i guess last time i withdraw from them it was 0.0005 then it went to 0.001 blockchain.info also have high fees.

cryp24x

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Quote from: panju1 on July 19, 2017, 09:45:50 AM

Quote from: Lucky7btc on July 19, 2017, 09:03:27 AM

A few months ago there was this bit craze about fees and how fees was outrageous. People were chasing fees just to send the smallest of bitcoins. Then several threads start appearing about using other currencies like LTC, ETH, DOGE, etc. I've noticed for the last 2 weeks I have been able to send btc with only a .07 cent fee tied to it and they were getting confirmed in only a few blocks. Whereas If i tried this mess a few months ago it would sit for hrs if not days. I think those behind the scene were scamming us and controlling the flow of inputs just to fu^k us over!

Some would say that people just got tired of trying to transfer value through bitcoins and have just shifted to alts. Others would say it was a spam attack to force a scaling solution. In any case, we benefit now from lower fees.

Probably majority of bitcoin users shigted to altcoin (ETH and LTC) to process their transaction. This somehow lessen the congestion of Bitcoin network thus the fee started to get lower. It is just a matter of supply and demand, way back there was more demand but now I think there is less people who are transacting with Bitcoin.

Proton2233

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Fees will necessarily be reduced. With such high charges it is impossible to exist the trade. Without trade, bitcoin would not exist. If this problem is not resolved then high fees can become worse than the division of bitcoin.

Topic: Fees - I Think We All Been Scammed (Read 1024 times)