Ok, after more research I have a theoretical view on the fees charged for investing in bitcoin with fiat from your bank account then returning fiat back to your bank account:
step1) buy BTC via bank transfer (no fee for SEPA)
step2) for holding, transfer BTC to safe wallet -> withdraw fee: 0.0005BTC
step3) deposit BTC from your safe wallet back to binance wallet -> https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/fee-calculator/
= 0.1 - 5EUR dependiing if you're in a hurry or not (assumption 1:1 as inputs and outputs)
step4) convert / exchange BTC to EUR -> 0.1% binance fee
step5) withdraw EUR to your bank account -> 0 fee
Concrete example based on initial investment as 1000EUR:
step1) buy BTC via bank transfer as 1000EUR worth -> 0.044171BTC
step2) for holding, transfer BTC to safe wallet -> withdraw fee: 0.0005BTC => 0.043671BTC in your safe wallet
step3) deposit BTC from your safe wallet back to binance wallet -> assume 0.0002BTC mining fee -> 0.043471BTC in your binance account
step4) convert / exchange BTC to EUR -> 0.1% binance fee => 0.043427529BTC to EUR (assumed same value as in step 1) = ~983eur
step5) withdraw EUR to your bank account -> 0 fee -> ~983EUR in your bank account
This means in order to have a profit you have to take care of the BTC/EUR ratio to cover the Binance trading fee (0.1%) withdraw fee 0.0005BTC and mining fee (~0.0002BTC)
Is this calculation correct? (the steps at least as the actual figures depend on the market trend and mining fees)
Another question, is there a limit to the amount you can withdraw from binance account per transaction / day / month as fiat?
Topic: Fees - top 3 best choices for lowest fees? (Read 296 times)
if I buy BTC, my balance will be charged with the current value of the BTC or with the one BTC will have whenever the transaction will be confirmed?
Current value. No exchange would want to lose money and risk having to wait for your BTC to confirm. Is electrum fees much lower than nano ledger s fees? A while back irecalled i could even make no fee with electrum. I no longer use electrum anymore.
Free transactions are not realistic any more.The main difference between different wallets is the way they handle the transactions. Electrum does offer features such as easy RBF, CPFP while giving the user the control over their fee with the native segwit. That's why it's often recommended because it's UI is easier to use than most. Fees wise, given the same conditions (address type, mempool, etc) , there shouldn't be any fee differential between wallets.
Is electrum fees much lower than nano ledger s fees? A while back irecalled i could even make no fee with electrum. I no longer use electrum anymore.
if I buy BTC, my balance will be charged with the current value of the BTC or with the one BTC will have whenever the transaction will be confirmed?
Mean is average.
Mean is not the average.
Quote
Average can simply be defined as the sum of all the numbers divided by the total number of values. Mean on the other hand is the result of the addition of the largest and smallest numbers in the set and dividing them by 2
Average is usually present as mean or arithmetic mean. Mean is simply a method of describing the average of the sample.
https://byjus.com/maths/difference-between-average-and-mean/ Average is usually present as mean or arithmetic mean. Mean is simply a method of describing the average of the sample.
Mean is average.. See the bitmover quote. Thanks.
sd is standard deviation.
p50 is median.
The interquartile range is from p25 to p75.
Min is minimum
Max is maximum
n is total number of observations.
Example if you have 100 observations, and sort them out in values. You can imagine the median as to middle point of 100 observations. The interquartile range is 50% around the median. 25% below the median and 25% above the median. You can consider the range as volatility level around the median.
This one is for fee, to save fee. So the narrower for the range, the better.
sd is standard deviation.
p50 is median.
The interquartile range is from p25 to p75.
Min is minimum
Max is maximum
n is total number of observations.
Example if you have 100 observations, and sort them out in values. You can imagine the median as to middle point of 100 observations. The interquartile range is 50% around the median. 25% below the median and 25% above the median. You can consider the range as volatility level around the median.
This one is for fee, to save fee. So the narrower for the range, the better.
@tranthidung, as it's a beginner section, can you explain the meaning for your table header (columns meaning) ?
many thanks and keep up your nice work!
many thanks and keep up your nice work!
What you need to bear in mind is a wallet that is trust worthy and that which can safe your earnings.
So I will recommend you use Electrum and Mycelium also.
So I will recommend you use Electrum and Mycelium also.
I thank you for mentioning about my thread.
Raw data
This part is for hourly fee, but for all days in this year.
Quote
2. Time of the day
For example always send out your transaction every day some hours before 13:00 UTC, when bitmex broadcasts a batch withdrawal of thousands of transaction with relatively high transactions fees which flood the mempool for a few hours affecting how long other transactions with lower fees are going to be confirmed
I played with the data set today and I can confirm it.For example always send out your transaction every day some hours before 13:00 UTC, when bitmex broadcasts a batch withdrawal of thousands of transaction with relatively high transactions fees which flood the mempool for a few hours affecting how long other transactions with lower fees are going to be confirmed
- Each day, hours from 13 UTC to 22 UTC is the most terrible period to move bitcoin. Because its median of hourly fees are higher than median of all-24-hours each day from 2.4% to 33.9%. The rise begin since 12 UTC time.
- Each day, hours from 23 UTC to 7 UTC time are best to move bitcoin with cheapest fee.
- median_day: the median of transaction fee for all 24 hours every day.
- median_hrdate: the median of specific hour within each day
- diffpc = (median_hrdate - median_day)/median_day*100
Raw data
Code:
+-----------------------+
| rank hr diffpc |
|-----------------------|
1. | 1 13 33.91756 |
2. | 2 14 26.39759 |
3. | 3 16 24.86809 |
4. | 4 15 22.69867 |
5. | 5 18 22.69101 |
6. | 6 17 20.83675 |
7. | 7 19 17.3279 |
8. | 8 20 17.23884 |
9. | 9 21 3.767935 |
10. | 10 22 2.36229 |
11. | 11 12 .7935516 |
12. | 12 10 -1.17058 |
13. | 13 2 -2.019091 |
14. | 14 11 -3.211063 |
15. | 15 8 -4.933663 |
16. | 16 9 -5.961604 |
17. | 17 0 -9.296452 |
18. | 18 23 -9.901987 |
19. | 19 6 -10.01764 |
20. | 20 7 -11.85577 |
21. | 21 4 -11.99892 |
22. | 22 3 -12.54986 |
23. | 23 1 -13.05078 |
24. | 24 5 -18.52437 |
+-----------------------+
This part is for hourly fee, but for all days in this year.
Code:
Summary for variables: feeperkb
by categories of: hr
hr | N mean sd p50 p25 p75 min max
---------+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0 | 2140.0 34366.3 35900.9 20389.1 10648.9 47919.9 0.0 257092.0
1 | 2169.0 31738.9 32021.4 20497.5 11595.8 40873.2 0.0 256272.0
2 | 2144.0 35262.7 33591.5 23386.6 13155.4 47311.4 0.0 275091.0
3 | 2218.0 30540.3 30137.1 20669.0 11934.7 37680.5 0.0 280884.0
4 | 2139.0 30864.3 29414.5 20457.0 11769.6 40051.0 0.0 246312.0
5 | 2216.0 28780.9 27879.6 18980.7 11589.5 34882.8 0.0 303836.0
6 | 2097.0 31120.2 31085.3 20046.8 11515.5 39140.0 0.0 246045.0
7 | 2162.0 31728.8 30206.8 21364.8 12235.8 42497.0 0.0 247493.0
8 | 2184.0 34858.9 34490.9 21743.5 12173.4 46857.6 0.0 249996.0
9 | 2139.0 35982.9 34497.9 23887.9 12465.2 49436.6 0.0 232711.0
10 | 2150.0 36605.6 35136.4 23973.3 12366.2 49729.1 0.0 260038.0
11 | 2175.0 37262.3 35684.8 24664.1 12595.9 50795.9 0.0 250145.0
12 | 2146.0 40706.9 37370.8 28833.1 13489.4 56808.6 0.0 266947.0
13 | 2180.0 52372.6 42798.4 41836.3 19332.3 74290.4 0.0 340589.0
14 | 2132.0 47275.3 41043.6 34309.0 17192.5 67794.1 0.0 342649.0
15 | 2192.0 46111.7 39591.8 33790.2 16981.5 65084.8 0.0 279020.0
16 | 2183.0 48142.2 41745.7 33990.4 16798.3 70057.9 0.0 295485.0
17 | 2236.0 48759.5 43286.3 35645.0 16962.7 70143.3 0.0 309492.0
18 | 2170.0 47029.4 42725.5 32838.4 16265.4 67715.8 0.0 289470.0
19 | 2152.0 47406.2 43053.2 33724.3 15503.6 67292.0 0.0 272109.0
20 | 2185.0 45984.9 42112.1 31402.0 14616.1 66583.9 0.0 279584.0
21 | 2270.0 41938.1 39354.7 27447.0 12973.7 62083.4 0.0 307249.0
22 | 2181.0 41181.6 39385.3 27091.4 12695.9 57919.7 0.0 253167.0
23 | 2183.0 35448.4 35125.8 22265.8 11282.7 49712.4 0.0 252706.0
---------+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total | 52143.0 39251.6 37543.7 25619.8 13231.9 55277.9 0.0 342649.0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I add here a good read taken from an unpinned good thread: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Techniques_to_reduce_transaction_fees
finally some numbers 
so, binance is best for such fees among centralized services however best option for buying is P2P (something that I could deduce).
Still for selling back/withdrawing cash, I guess again the best option is P2P (so to sell to someone who would like to buy with fiat) or for centralized still binance as best service?
P2p is better place for crypto to fiat transactions in terms of fees but you may need to consider about providing KYC details to the platform while registering and also traders may ask you KYC when choosing high risk payment modes. so, binance is best for such fees among centralized services however best option for buying is P2P (something that I could deduce).
Still for selling back/withdrawing cash, I guess again the best option is P2P (so to sell to someone who would like to buy with fiat) or for centralized still binance as best service?
These are other factors to consider; This only applies from personal wallet to personal wallet trnansactions
1. Day of the week:
Week days are considered to be the busiest for the Bitcoin network which implies high numbers of unconfirmed transactions in the mempool. The transaction activity tends to slow down during weekends which also translates to lower transaction fee rates that can easily be confirmed once the mempool clears
- Bitcoin transaction fees (in sats/kb). Sunday, Saturday are best to move BTC
1. Day of the week:
Week days are considered to be the busiest for the Bitcoin network which implies high numbers of unconfirmed transactions in the mempool. The transaction activity tends to slow down during weekends which also translates to lower transaction fee rates that can easily be confirmed once the mempool clears
- Bitcoin transaction fees (in sats/kb). Sunday, Saturday are best to move BTC
great tips, it helped me also to find another interesting thread to read: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/aug-2022-mempool-empty-use-this-opportunity-to-consolidate-your-small-inputs-2848987
I'll read again the Newbies pinned thread as I can't remember seeing anything about fees so such topic is a must read for beginners.
It is always better to manually check the mempool via a few useful websites. If you're looking for speed/efficiency for one-block confirmations, I would recommend adding 5-10% more than the current highest fee bucket depending on the network (i.e. if it barely confirms at 6 sat/byte, push it to 7 or 8; at 60 s/b, try 66 to 72).
You can do that. Most wallets already provide floating fees and they're somewhat the same. I would consider using actual mempool stats if you know how to read one and can estimate how much fees you need given the statistics. Most wallets has a decent algorithm to calculate the optimum fees for confirmations within X blocks which can be easier for OP, if he doesn't know how mempool would work.IMO, there could be some ambiguity when reading the mempool stats but most fee estimation algorithm does some calibration based on the time after the last block and stuff. It definitely won't be 100% accurate, nothing really is.
finally some numbers
so, binance is best for such fees among centralized services however best option for buying is P2P (something that I could deduce).
Still for selling back/withdrawing cash, I guess again the best option is P2P (so to sell to someone who would like to buy with fiat) or for centralized still binance as best service?
0.0005BTC for a transaction is actually quite absurd. I had to pay 0.0005BTC for my withdrawal while my other transaction took 10 times less than that. You probably have to consider the fees with depositing from your bank (if your currency isn't supported on Binance), the trading fees and stuff like that. Localbitcoins and Bisq are good P2P exchanges to consider as well. It could fit better into your use case. so, binance is best for such fees among centralized services however best option for buying is P2P (something that I could deduce).
Still for selling back/withdrawing cash, I guess again the best option is P2P (so to sell to someone who would like to buy with fiat) or for centralized still binance as best service?
What I do is to first check memepool.space first. It provides the real time information of the fee that will get your transaction confirmed. Then I use a non custodial wallet like Mycelium to check what is the normal fee that it is showing. I then calculate what I can afford to pay and then make my transfer. There still no guarantee that after all of these your transaction will get confirmed the same day. It all depends on the Bitcoin network if it's conjugated you will have to wait or pay the higher fee.
so, binance is best for such fees among centralized services however best option for buying is P2P (something that I could deduce).
Still for selling back/withdrawing cash, I guess again the best option is P2P (so to sell to someone who would like to buy with fiat) or for centralized still binance as best service?
Well, the safest way of selling/buying your bitcoin is on binance p2p. You can actually sell your cryptocurrency to fiat via P2P on binance on this site. Still for selling back/withdrawing cash, I guess again the best option is P2P (so to sell to someone who would like to buy with fiat) or for centralized still binance as best service?
[ https://p2p.binance.com/en ] and follow this instruction for more details, [ https://www.binance.com/en/support/articles/360039385091-How-to-Sell-Cryptocurrency-on-Binance-P2P-App-- ]. However, here in the forum have also p2p, but don't forget to use escrow for the safe dealing with other user and choose Segwit address using Electrum wallet for the best modifying of fees.
These are other factors to consider; This only applies from personal wallet to personal wallet trnansactions
1. Day of the week:
Week days are considered to be the busiest for the Bitcoin network which implies high numbers of unconfirmed transactions in the mempool. The transaction activity tends to slow down during weekends which also translates to lower transaction fee rates that can easily be confirmed once the mempool clears
- Bitcoin transaction fees (in sats/kb). Sunday, Saturday are best to move BTC
2. Time of the day
Bitcoin fees tend to spike at certain hours during the day. Do on't want to send you transactions during those time of the day especially if you are planning to use a lower fee rate and need quicker confirmations.
For example always send out your transaction every day some hours before 13:00 UTC, when bitmex broadcasts a batch withdrawal of thousands of transaction with relatively high transactions fees which flood the mempool for a few hours affecting how long other transactions with lower fees are going to be confirmed
https://b10c.me/mempool-observations/2-bitmex-broadcast-13-utc/
1. Day of the week:
Week days are considered to be the busiest for the Bitcoin network which implies high numbers of unconfirmed transactions in the mempool. The transaction activity tends to slow down during weekends which also translates to lower transaction fee rates that can easily be confirmed once the mempool clears
- Bitcoin transaction fees (in sats/kb). Sunday, Saturday are best to move BTC
2. Time of the day
Bitcoin fees tend to spike at certain hours during the day. Do on't want to send you transactions during those time of the day especially if you are planning to use a lower fee rate and need quicker confirmations.
For example always send out your transaction every day some hours before 13:00 UTC, when bitmex broadcasts a batch withdrawal of thousands of transaction with relatively high transactions fees which flood the mempool for a few hours affecting how long other transactions with lower fees are going to be confirmed
https://b10c.me/mempool-observations/2-bitmex-broadcast-13-utc/
Once you bought BTC, what would be the fee for sending this further to another wallet (let's say a storage wallet)?
If you bought the coins from a centralised exchange like binance or coinbase then the transaction size doesn't matter because those exchanges charge flat fees for withdrawals (like 0.0005 btc or 0.001 btc /transaction).In the other hand, if you are sending from your own wallet to someone else's wallet, then all you have to pay is the miners fee which depends solely on the transaction size and the fee rate you choose.
finally some numbers
so, binance is best for such fees among centralized services however best option for buying is P2P (something that I could deduce).
Still for selling back/withdrawing cash, I guess again the best option is P2P (so to sell to someone who would like to buy with fiat) or for centralized still binance as best service?
Once you bought BTC, what would be the fee for sending this further to another wallet (let's say a storage wallet)?
If you bought the coins from a centralised exchange like binance or coinbase then the transaction size doesn't matter because those exchanges charge flat fees for withdrawals (like 0.0005 btc or 0.001 btc /transaction).
Once you bought BTC, what would be the fee for sending this further to another wallet (let's say a storage wallet)?
If you bought the coins from a centralised exchange like binance or coinbase then the transaction size doesn't matter because those exchanges charge flat fees for withdrawals (like 0.0005 btc or 0.001 btc /transaction).In the other hand, if you are sending from your own wallet to someone else's wallet, then all you have to pay is the miners fee which depends solely on the transaction size and the fee rate you choose.
- Choose a good wallet (non-custodial): Electrum.
- Use Bech32 address (Segwit): You can create Legacy or Segwit wallet with Electrum. Choose Segwit.
- Consolidate small inputs when fee is low
- Watch the mempool with https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,8h to consolidate small inputs or to make your real transactions.
- Use Bech32 address (Segwit): You can create Legacy or Segwit wallet with Electrum. Choose Segwit.
- Consolidate small inputs when fee is low
- Watch the mempool with https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#1,8h to consolidate small inputs or to make your real transactions.
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