Topic: Fees when bitcoin "skyrocket" (Read 1025 times)

People who want small transactions off the chain and bitcoin to be big transactions only will want a 10$ fee, this was one of the big arguments they had against the block increase, they want it to stay 1mb forever.

It would make no sense to pay $10 fees for a bitcoin transaction. If that happens then the minimum fee would be sat down because otherwise bitcoin would lose one of his big advantages, which is nearly free cost transactions.

The only real thing that will raise fee income will be adoption. The more transactions the more fees.

Right now, if a miner sees a transaction with a 0.00001 BTC fee, he has little motivation to let it through. He'll likely wait for another transaction with a 0.0001 BTC fee. If tomorrow,  BTC skyrockets, the motivation to let transactions with a small fee pass will grow just as well.

Competition is also at play. Some miners may reject small transactions, while some others would be happy with them.

Thank you very much for this info.

You are incorrect.

The bitcoin protocol does not require you to pay a fee at all.  Your wallet might force you to pay a fee, but you can always choose a different wallet (or create your own).

Bitcoin is a voluntary system.  You can volunteer to pay a fee as an incentive for miners to include your transaction in the next block that they solve, or you can choose not to pay a fee at all. You are not forced to pay a fee.

However, it is also a voluntary system for the miners (or mining pools).  Out of the generosity and charity in their heart, they can volunteer to confirm your transaction even if you don't include a fee.  Such a confirmed transaction would be recognized by everyone using the bitcoin protocol as a valid confirmed transaction.  The miners (or mining pools) can also choose not to include your transaction in their block if they don't want to (in which case your transaction would be forced to wait for some other miner to include it).

Additionally, peers can choose not to relay your transaction if they don't want to.  If you structure your transaction in a way that most peers will ignore it (such as a dust transaction with no fee), then it may take a VERY long time before a generous miner even hears about your transaction.

Now, if you control a very large amount of hashing power (perhaps if you control a large mining pool), then you can just confirm the transaction yourself.

^^
you can always send free transactions (that is without fee) but the thing is that your transaction is not going to get confirmed or take at least 1 week to get any confirmation at all.

so, anyone would help me with this?

Fees are very much variable. They depend on Bitcoin price, price of electricity, mining revenues etc.
When Bitcoin skyrockets all the parameters will change and fee will change accordingly.
All in all, Bitcoin fee will always be smaller than bank fee. 

You do not need to worry about that. Default fee have been reduced before due to bitcoin price levels.

Default fee was reduced from 0.0005btc to 0.0001btc in May 2013 since Bitcoin-Qt 0.82 (Release Notes). In March 2014 , Bitcoin Core v0.9.0 (Release Notes) reduced the minimum relay fee to 0.00001 btc. Note that lowering minimum relay fee does not imply lowering default fee to 0.00001 btc.

The lowering of minimum replay fee has set the stage for a low "market rate" for transaction fees. If Bitcoin price skyrocketed, users have the option of sending transactions anything above 0.00001 btc fee. It means transaction with 0.00001 btc are also considered valid and will be relayed. It is still up to the miner to decide whether to include it in the blocks.


Zero fee transaction could also confirm as quickly as fee-paying transactions. It has to do with the priority score and maturity of the inputs of the transaction. In very simple terms, less than 1 kilobyte transactions with more than 1 btc transacted can be sent with no fee (Wiki). I would not suggest any less experienced user to try sending a zero fee transaction because it induces stress and it is a troublesome process to remove the transaction from wallet if it did not confirm within reasonable time.


It's in the unconfirmed transaction memory pool. You can view them here:
https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

if my transaction is lower than 0.01 BTC we CAN'T change the fee to zero. You have to pay the fee, sadly.
This happens to discourage dust spam:

"2. Discourage "dust" spam
If any of the outputs (including any change) of your transaction are less than 0.01 XBT, then a fee of 0.0001 XBT is required. The coin selection algorithm is careful to avoid selecting coins that result in a change amount of less than 0.01 XBT if at all possible."



Right?

Just one parallel question: if miners are not including his transaction in blocks, where in hell is his transaction at this moment? Where is it saved or written while it is waiting for a block?

It would be the end of Bitcoin if the fee stays BTC 0.0001. Fee's are not mandatory, so you can try to make a transaction without any fees, it will probably bounce for there are barely miners who will accept the transaction if no fee is being rewarded.

It would be nice to have some maverick miners, accepting 0 and very low fee transactions? Scraping all the transactions other miners will ignore. It would no be profitable, but it would help the not so fortunate or scrooges in the bitcoin community 

Whatever happens, the fees will be less than most or all of the other traditional payment methods out there at the moment. While the Block reward is still there to reward the miners, the fee's function as a added bonus.

Once the reward decline to a level, where the motivation to mine is not profitable, a increase in fee's would be inevitable.

It's also a motivator for people to pay higher fee's, when there is a transaction backlog. The higher the fee, the quicker the confirmation. It's just how it works.  

the point is that this will lead to more waiting, for your comfirmation, which is already long some time when the average is not on your favor

if you already reduce it by one order of magnitude, you need to wait two hours on average, not ideal at all

We have a LONG time till we worry about fees.  I think it's multiple havings till we have any issues at all.

And the community is not stupid.  They will correct value of BTC to where it does not cost a fortune.   What cost will be in 10 years.... hard to say.  Just not enough out there to give good anwser.

Then we will be making the transaction fee more less like 100 Satoshi

miners are given 25 Bitcoin for their hashing power and if you don't know then let me tell you that the fee goes to the pool and not to the miners.

I have not seen many actual figures on here.  Would it be like .001?  Is that reasonable?

fees has already been changed a couple of times until now. it was not always 0.0001 BTC for fees , i don't know exactly what was the amounts before but i know for a fact that it has been changed more than once in history of bitcoin.

so in the future it is not a problem to change it again for example if the price skyrockets it can be reduced or if the block reward decreases a couple more times and price goes down it can be increased.

Fee will reduce later obviously.
No one will want to pay 10 bucks per transaction, especially if its a small coffee transaction like 2$. Thats 5x the amount of the item lol.
Even now, the fee seems a bit high. 0.0001 is a small decimal, but thats a couple cents. A couple cents 100 times is a couple dollars. Its much smaller than paypal or western union or stuff like that, but it really adds up
I have ~500 transactions on my main address.
500 x 0.0001 is 0.05 btc, which is 14$. I guess thats not much for 500 transactions (paypal would almost be in the thousand dollar amount for that many transactions), but 14$ is a lot for just sending around coins.