Topic: F.GIGA.ETF to be delisted on December 1st, 2012. - page 2. (Read 5131 times)

Yeah, I read that.  But for that one tidbit, in several other places he says they're worthless.  He also stated that a stat would no longer show your shares, so I'm a little confused as to how someone now uses the stat as evidence of a claim?

See, I also read this:  (prior to reading the linked conversation)


So... perhaps a clearer official response could be assembled by MPEx?

To be very clear, I specifically asked Mircea to make a claim to GLBSE and to me.

He said he would do neither.

Perhaps in the scam accusations board. Im sure after all your blathering about nefario and glbse over the years you will be able to explain why you deleted assets from peoples accounts and how that makes mpex so much better than every other bitcoin site.

Not sure why is this mircea character hiding behind your huge virtual arse? If he has something to say, let him do it under his own name and end this silly charade.

I seriously don't see the point of re-hashing the linked article here line by line.

I don't agree with this a little bit. Mircea keeps claiming this, but nowhere on mpex offer there was a slight mention of glbse. Instead, the only thing there was published on the asset page on mpex was this:


So, I bought a passthrough to giga's bonds, not to glbse.

I'm neither trying to be vague nor to be evasive. I'm trying to separate that which can in fact be answered (what MP will do) from that which cannot in fact be answered (what will happen in the future). Any attempt to conflate elements drawn from these two distinct groups will result in partial answers, only to the first part, for the pretty good reason that nobody can answer as to the second part.

Obviously I understand that everyone would very much want to know "what will happen". Heck, so would I. How do you practically go about it? One day GLBSE is fine, the next it's awol. One day Nefario is giving out info, the next weeks he's not. Then he is. Then the lists are broken. Then Giga wants a ream of paperwork. Then new lists come up. Then who exactly knows what tomorrow brings? I'm sorry, but I can't answer that. All I can say are basic things such as yes, MPEx will pay legitimate claims. Of course it will. Will X claim be legitimate? I don't know. Nobody does. We'll have to get there and see.

Otherwise, the situation is something like this:
a)Mircea Popescu made a pass-through of a GLBSE asset, at no cost, with no performance (which literally means, he was not going to do absolutely anything other than send the money received along to investors).
b)The GLBSE asset was destroyed.
c)The GLBSE asset issuer is trying to create a replacement, which is laudable, but he's doing it in such a way as to put more burden on the pass-through operator than he either promised or offered to take. This is understandable, from that issuer's perspective, for a variety of reasons already discussed in the respective threads, but the fact that it's understandable doesn't make its effects go away. 
d)It is possible that in the future some BTC will flow to ex-GIGAMINING holders through this replacement scheme.

So, investors in F.GIGA.ETF may be entitled to some sort of compensation, but conceivably not until such a time as Giga pays something, not unless they actually claim it and likely a fraction thereof. The complexities of "exactly how much" are significant, and at the rate this is going I imagine will have to be established by Rota.

Why not?

There's a procedure in place to claim the (pretty big) value our investment has accrued. You're refusing to follow it. I'm being supportive and understanding and I'm considering that you may have your good reasons (privacy, laziness, who knows or cares?) to act this way, and my proposal is even relieving you from that burden. I don't even want to think what motives may you have to refuse even this kind bailout I'm generously offering you.

You already have my public key. Send to me, obviously encrypted, any info I would need to make the claim and I'll take care of everything else...

Whatever. Let us know when you're going to pay out. While you're at it, returning the proof I would need to "make a legitimate claim" wouldn't be a half bad idea.

MPEx removed a non-worthless asset (it may have been non-tradeable, but that doesn't make it worthless - you show your own financial ignorance at times)

MPEx uses STAT output for proof of ownership of assets, as this is gpg signed by the exchange.

That proof is no longer available in asset holders' accounts, as it has been removed.

With the communication typical of exchange operators, MPEx has done exactly zip to assure investors they'd be paid.

I am not failing my arms. But, I don't see the need to read pages of shit that mircea posts in order to get the one piece of information MPOE-PR is too lazy (on the first go 'round) to post "her"self. And, MPOE-PR/Mircea, if you can't take name calling, don't dish it out. You're one of the most offensive posters in all of bitcoin (I'm sure I'd not get much argument on THAT point!)

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but I honestly can't figure out what you're trying to say. It seems there are only four possibilities:

1) Investors get nothing.

2) You make a payment to investors from your own pocket.

3) You pursue going through Giga's claim process and pass any funds you reclaim to investors.

4) You pursue some other source of recovery, such as suing GLBSE or negotiating with Giga, and pass any funds (perhaps less expenses) you reclaim to investors.

I think your comments rule out 1 and 3, but I'm not quite sure. You seem to be hinting at something with "This however has no bearing on the investors' rights", but I can't figure out what. Are you deliberately trying to be vague and evasive or am I missing something?

I dunno, dood. So far what I see is you being too agitated to sit down and read, flailing your arms and calling people names. What school of negotiation/conflict resolution is this?

burnside - that's how every conversation with Mircea goes. Thus I saw little point in digging through it looking for where he said he was going to pay, and instead noticed the key points you have shown us.  And, yes, he could still make it right, but as stubborn and arrogant as Mircea is, that seems unlikely. He seems likely to destroy his business with his attitude, and this may just become the final nail in the coffin.

rdponticelli: yeah. I'm sure Mircea would agree to that  

JoelKatz: I appreciate your open mind, but what could that good reason possibly look like? It seems to me there are very few, if any, good reasons to fail to claim money owed to one's investors. Furthermore, since the asset clearly is not worthless shouldn't it be the case that Mircea should owe investors regardless of whether or not he makes a claim to gigavps. I think so. I don't care whether Mircea gets the money from giga, just whether or not he pays investors.

EDIT: So, MPOE-PR graces us by digging out the one nugget of actual information in that pile of drivel. about time.

So. MPOE-PR - please inform us what is the plan for paying out on this asset.

I doubt you did. Maybe you skimmed it, maybe you gave up halfway through, but at any rate you left out the parts that actually matter.


I don't think that's going anywhere.


No.

This however has no bearing on the investors' rights (which seems to be, possibly, the mistake everyone is making?).

I may be willing to make the claim on behalf of Mircea, or whoever was his proxy. I would need to arrange the details with Mircea, but I don't mind to take in charge the bureaucratic task.

Then I could receive claims from the etf holders, (preferably a signed receipt from the exchange, right after the asset wasn't trade-able any more) and I can setup a system to distribute the dividends, maybe discounting the expenses. My own claim is this:


So, my self interest is that of the assets holders.

Would you see it workable?

I read the conversation MPOE-pr posted.

I see:

- Mircea justifying his inability to be patient.


- Mircea justifying not keeping any record of the shares.


- Mircea claiming that GLBSE was dead and not responding to anyone.  (In fact many people were in contact with James, and some lists were in fact released, and other than for a day or two the site was in fact up the majority of November.)


- Mircea clarifying his attitude toward the shareholders that used GLBSE:



- Mircea shuts down an attempt at reasoning with him:  (actually this happens several times)


.... The rest of it loops repeatedly.  

In summary:


To which I'll add... perhaps not in function, but clearly in form.

The whole thing reeks.  Maybe Mircea doesn't intend to gain financially from this, but he's definitely screwing everyone that held shares on MPEx.  (his own exchange!)

He could however, still make it right.  Cross your fingers?

It doesn't answer the $64,000 question: Are you attempting to go through Giga's process to recover some of your investors' funds? If not, why not? I'm not implying that you don't have good reasons, just that you haven't made clear what they are.

I see no need to simmer down until you show that you're going to pay investors in F.GIGA.ETF. (which you certainly seem to have been shown to have exactly zero intention in doing)

All I see is a non-worthless asset removed from my portfolio

I'm on about that.

What are you on?

Eh simmer down will you. What are you on about anyway?

Fuck it. I give up. I will liquidate all my MPEx positions and withdraw my funds. I will then consider selling the account. Dealing with Mircea is fucking pointless. He'll attempt to bully everyone and make himself out to be Big Tough and Right (regardless of the truth) and then he'll just walk off with the money.

Typical Exchange Operator, stubborn prick, willing to fuck over investors and likely steal their money.

Really, read the quoted discussion rather than trying to re-enact it as if it were fresh.