Topic: Fiat, Banks and the future of Cryptocurrencies - page 6. (Read 26331 times)

I've never had issues with my bank before. And I've only cashed out through banks. My cheap ass refuse to pay the fee when cashing out via other methods (there are no fees when cashing out through banks). I've never bought BTC using money from the bank though, that might have been different.

I see now where we have the disconnect. I am not talking here about amounts that can be used up on an occasional dinner, but amounts with which to finance your life (i.e. as a regular, decent income) or as a large lump sump.

Take the later, and let's make this concrete. Assume you were lucky enough to have bought sufficient BTC years ago, so that you have now the equivalent of USD 10m sitting in your Coinbase account. You decide that this is more than enough to live on and quit your job. You still will need to use cash (or fiat) to pay the rent, continue shopping where you have been shopping so far and at shops that don't (yet) accept crypto currencies, or you might decide that you want to buy yourself now that Lambo you were dreaming about. What now? The Lambo dealer might only accept hard currency, and not bitcoin. Your landlord, grocery store, tailor etc. the same.

My guess is, you will not be able to get to your money without involving a bank or some finance institution. And unless they are of shoddy character, and unless they are already used to seeing millions being moved in and out of your account for other legitimate reasons, such transactions will raise alarm bells.

Also, the example of the credit card to get cash with which to purchase BTC is fine, except you did not say how you move the cash to an exchange to buy BTC. Ok, for small sums you could do a physical transaction at a local meet-up. But larger sums, and regularly? Again, I don't think there is currently a way to circumvent banks. Either way, moving money INTO the cryptomarket is less problematic. Moving it out again, however, still is.

It's not about not paying taxes for fiat, the bank refuses to take the money once it realizes that you earned it from crypto trading, and you can't really pay taxes without declaring that you received the funds from crypto trading.
You can't really bypass it and to transfer the funds into your local banks, the only way you can do that is by doing it illegal( transferring the funds into cash, and slowly use the cash, you can't really pay taxes on bitcoin, and that's the big problem).
Banks won't take the chance as they can't really verify that you weren't involved in money laundering.

Some of the methods are not "illegal" and I will take an example. I buy 50 items at a reduced prices from a Bitcoin merchant

and sell it for Fiat currencies. If you bargained for a good discount for bulk purchases, you might even make a profit. You

could also pay for a friends dinner at a merchant that accepts Bitcoin and that person can give you the cash. These are

simple examples, but they are ways to get around Banks. {This might be a much slower process, but you will never be

stuck with those bitcoins, because the Banks wants to sabotage Bitcoin.} The same goes for the Banks that sabotaged Bitcoin

by not allowing people to buy bitcoins with their credit card. I use the credit card to buy something else and sell that item

for cash and I buy the bitcoins. Problem solved. {There is always a way, not the easiest... but it is still possible} 

I think it would be possible to use several banks right now, but only because there is not yet a regulatory requirement to report cash flows from crypto-exchanges. However, I would think if you just opened a few accounts and started to deposit money from crypto-exchanges without having any other regular flows into those accounts, or a history with the bank, then that would equally raise suspicion.

It is seems nearly impossible to move large sums from crypto-exchanges back to bank account(s) without raising any questions.

I wonder how crypto-day traders deal with this problem. They MUST move money back to fiat, to live on. And I know from my bank, they would not accept clients who do day trading in crypto, again, because it's difficult to ensure compliance with money laundering laws.

Have you ever seen the internal policies of banks as they relate to their clients dealing in crypto currencies? I have. And what I posted is a paraphrased, shortened version of what some of the large globally operating banks (US, European and Asian banks) have as their policy right now. These banks don't see bitcoin as anything more than a toy for gambling and to hide illegal activities, certainly not as threat  (the blockchain related technologies are quite another matter though). The main concern for them is being caught up in any AML and money laundering scandal.

Hi,

I don't really think that the issue for banks is about money laundering. Because this happens in some countries and large, worldwide banks have no issues being involved, as long as they make profit. I rather think that they see bitcoin as a threat.

I don't really have a solution to offer, but I would say that it is good for cryptos... it means we are on the right tracks, important enough now for traditionnal financial institutions to react.

Not so bad for a geeky tool without any future!

The new era of cashless society yeah , still I'm a little bit doubt about this due how a lot of people keep thinking traditionally and won't welcome new things, new technology like electronic money, it would takes a long time . Anyway I personally haven't experience a strict service from the banks even they know about how I involve in crypto business.

To summarize it all, they are preventing us from making money.  
No difference with using fiat.
I heard a lot about this. But since I have never gone to a larger scale of withdrawal then I haven't experienced it.
But I am also worrying and that is why I am reading threads like this. There will always be a time that we will end up getting bored or just want to feel the profit and then rest and I want that to be clean without having any issues, banks or any other means.

Now, this banks. It will always be the best way to get that large amount and they could stop anything you want to get through them without you explaining where you get it but there is this limit.
Will it work if I do it in different banks and not overflow the limit or they are all connected somehow?

But what you are stating is not reality. Many banks (particularly global operating banks) would be required to take a very conservative approach. If you, as a client, can't prove the source of your (unusual and unusually high) income, then they would be forced to prevent the deposit, or cancel your account all together. And with moving in and out of crypto currencies, the proof of legitimacy is becoming a very difficult task.

I will talk about this end of your post and I believe such restrictions would propel stakeholders in crypto business to buckle up in their trade. Stakeholders like exchangers because that is actually where it starts from.

Then, this could bring in proper regulations from the government. For me, bank restrictions is good for a start.

Kyc requirement is not a big deal for most people, and if the money made is includes no illegal activity, then there is no difference as a income from others. Banks will not do that, this is a big loss for them

Not trying to defend banks, but I would think ensuring that no money laundering takes place on their watch is more important for them than keeping individual customers. And I am not talking here about the extremes, like super-ultra-high-net-worth customers, but the affluent crypto investor in general, having struck some "gold. For these normal affluent crypto investors who made perhaps even a few million, the bank would not do any special favors. If we would be starting to talk about 1bn or more ... then that would be another case all together.

While a bank could reject you it doesn't seem like that would be in their best interest at all. After all they are trying to get customers for their bank and if you are prominent and have lots of money will they are doing themselves a disservice. We have seen what lengths banks will go to with the HSBC cartel fiasco so lets not kid ourselves and say they won't handle some tainted money.

Good for you. Not asking for any details, but can you confirm that your inflows (i.e. from the crypto-gains translated into fiat to your bank account) have been "abnormal"? An example to illustate what I mean by that:

1) Assume you make USD 10'000 per month as a salary. If every few months you deposit 2k or 3k as a result of your gains, no bank would really care much.

2) However, if you started to deposit USD 15'000 every second week, or a lump some of say USD 1m from a crypto exchange, that would certainly trigger the alarm bells at many banks.

The second scenario is what I would label "abnormal" from a banks compliance perspective. And I would be surprised if a reputable bank would not react in such as case and demand some proof.

There is no as such complication that I have experienced recently however I will skip to other discussion points of your where I can add something. Like you said exchangers without KYC's will suffer or not. Well, I believe they will suffer in the future a lot because day by day the KYC and KYS as well getting very strict. In my country the exchangers which are not collecting the KYC of their customers are themselves getting under surveillance because regulatory bodies think that they are making some spurious action which may disturb the nation economy somewhat.

Pointing towards the next point, "ICO heavens" well I believe it has to undergo vigorous change rather than smooth implementation by the banks. These projects are already getting funds off the chart and banks may not be able to tolerate it if they fail in the ICO project.