Fiat currency based economy Question

fiulpro

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Quote from: cryptoboss2020 on November 23, 2020, 05:22:44 PM

So how come this fiat based debt based system have not Collapsed yet?

There is a lot debt all over the World wich means also a lot money!!
A lot money means value can go down.
The inflation was really high before the covid 19
Covid saved fiat currency value!
Less transactions means less economic actvity less economic activity means less inflation...

So the fiat currency is the biggest winner in this covid situation !!

Now... This just temporary once the economy is going to be re opened the inflation will hit again.
And there is nothing that can back up fiat.

Loans and debts cant back up becouse people are all ready in situation they cant pay back the debt never!
So..... What is the Solution? Stable currency cant be becouse its a same old fiat based currency
Bitcoin could be the solution to be honest
I dont see any better ways then Bitcoin it is...
Btc have the most techical capability for that.

Only obstacle is slow confirmations.

But yea... The fiat system looking really bad...
And covid saved fiat currency against inflation
Once they re open economy its bad for fiat currency value.

The ammount of money they been printing it means they must start extermly high taxes...

I guess they start to go after cryptocurrency traders and give high taxes...

But those high taxes is only Short time tools to save economy..
..... What's next?

See first of all we do have limited resources during the COVID which doesn't necessarily mean that we have less inflation which would actually mean that inflation is high since it's not just interrelated with the economic activity.

Then the debt thing , every country have like a extra reservoir from which they can get the money out and distribute, for example: a country like USA. Now this gives them a little freedom to print and give people stimulus.

Fiat is surviving even now because till now we haven't found a fully functional and safe lightning network , we haven't gotten much chances at countries like:- North Korea , these countries are never going to use Fiat , now this means that the interlocked relationship between all the countries which is by fiat would be destroyed .. first we need worldwide acceptance then we do need a lot of work towards a better and stronger easily accessible network.

Argoo

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Quote from: Smartprofit on November 24, 2020, 10:11:07 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on November 24, 2020, 09:41:36 AM

Experts say that in 2022 in the United States, payments on US obligations will exceed the amount of taxes collected, and it will be necessary to turn on the printing press for money again.
https://bitnovosti.com/2020/06/14/kogda-fiatnaya-valyuta-umiraet/
This will cause hyperinflation and depreciation of the dollar as a world currency. The world will need a new currency that is not subject to inflation.

What will it be? Maybe BTC

I try to be realistic.

Bitcoin probably won't replace the US dollar, yuan, and euro. In the middle of the next decade, central bank currencies (CBDCs) will dominate.

Until then, however, we will see bitcoin prices rise. The rise in the value of bitcoins is a signal of an impending transformation of the global financial system.

This will bring about one of the greatest redistributions of capital in the history of mankind. At the same time, the current financial elites will retain their wealth and influence. Cypherpunks won't be able to come to power...

I'm a skeptic. I don't think the world will be better or freer in the future.

Yes, bitcoin and other decentralized cryptocurrencies cannot replace the national currencies of states. The price of bitcoin and cryptocurrency in general will rise, this is also true. However, the influence of cryptocurrency will grow only up to a certain point, namely until the interests of states are affected. If the increase in the influence of decentralized cryptocurrency interferes with the states, they will tighten regulatory measures and here it will be necessary to look for the best options for getting out of the conflict situation.

FanEagle

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Honestly you can see a ton of people who will criticize communism and socialism like it is a horrible thing, and I do understand that some people may think that way. However nobody talks about the horrors of capitalism neither, just because there are tons of money collected at the capitalist countries, they think it is a great way to live, and to think that you have 19 different kinds of flavors of ice cream in those nations, things do look like it is better.

But nobody says, "well if capitalism is better than communism, is there something better than capitalism?" the world is not something stagnant, so we should always try to look for better, I hate capitalism and I hate communism even more, I feel like there has to be at least one more thing that is better than all the things we have now.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: zasad@ on November 24, 2020, 09:41:36 AM

Experts say that in 2022 in the United States, payments on US obligations will exceed the amount of taxes collected, and it will be necessary to turn on the printing press for money again.

This will cause hyperinflation and depreciation of the dollar as a world currency. The world will need a new currency that is not subject to inflation.

Ugh. I think that's the question OP is asking (though I can't be sure, because his post is all over the place), and I'm afraid what you wrote is going to turn out to be true. I'm not sure what governments expect when they start rampantly printing money. Was nothing learned from the Weimar Republic and their hyperinflation crisis?

And if we (and I'm talking about the United States here) don't end up with massive inflation somehow, I suspect we're going to be taxed to death in the next few years. There are some days when I wish I was 90 years old or terminally ill so I wouldn't have to face what's coming. I say that only half in jest.

But who knows? Maybe bitcoin or a combination of it and some altcoins will be the currency of the future. I'm not sure how governments would handle it, but cryptocurrency is a hell of a lot better than the broken-ass fiat currency system we have now.

Ozero

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Quote from: Salauddin1994 on November 25, 2020, 12:29:06 AM

Covid-19 has hurt the economy and led to inflation when inflation occurs the value of the fiat currency declines as the economy declines it depends on the country's economy and controls the government development of the economy is not possible without fiat currency. From farmers to the poor they depend on fiat to meet their basic needs many do not have any knowledge of btc in terms of technology farmers and pharmacies are much more profitable in maintaining a fiat currency based economy.

We do not yet have an alternative to replace the fiat currencies of states and, most likely, will not. Decentralized cryptocurrency can only circulate in the state along with fiat currency, but cannot replace it. Therefore, perhaps in the near future there will be a global economic crisis, which will lead to the recovery of the world economy. Economic problems were, are and will be, but they can be solved.

KingsGambet19

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Quote from: zasad@ on December 01, 2020, 06:49:35 AM

Quote from: BTCappu on November 29, 2020, 02:47:42 PM

Do you have any knowledge about economy or how all these things works? Because, I have noticed that some of you that are saying this are saying just because you like Bitcoin, and you have looked into the possibilities of what you’re saying and whether it’s a better option or not, you just say it.

It’s not something that we are going to force to happen, you just have to understand the purpose as to wish everything was made, maybe with time everything will be right. We all know already even if we are going to be switching to cryptocurrencies, it’s not going to be Bitcoin because government won’t allow it. Bitcoin is in its own league.

What do you mean when you say:"..because government won’t allow it"
Bitcoin is legally revised in many developed countries, bitcoin is traded on world exchanges, bitcoin can be used as payment for goods, bitcoin is taxed ... etc.
It's too late to ban Bitcoin, the war is lost. One can only try to compete by creating other cryptocurrencies such as CBDC.

Maybe bitcoin is not accepted in their country. I do believe that government has remain neutral about bitcoin and are waiting or bitcoin could be under observation on what could it do good wherein a decentralized technology to be mixed in centralized system. For now, yes government possibly will not allow in this but government did not also say that it will eradicated. Bitcoin just remain independent and has not been controlled by any government. This is somewhat good in my opinion so that the purpose of bitcoin using pseudonym, p2p networks and other form away from centralized system will remain to be enjoyed by the users.

zasad@

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Quote from: BTCappu on November 29, 2020, 02:47:42 PM

Do you have any knowledge about economy or how all these things works? Because, I have noticed that some of you that are saying this are saying just because you like Bitcoin, and you have looked into the possibilities of what you’re saying and whether it’s a better option or not, you just say it.

It’s not something that we are going to force to happen, you just have to understand the purpose as to wish everything was made, maybe with time everything will be right. We all know already even if we are going to be switching to cryptocurrencies, it’s not going to be Bitcoin because government won’t allow it. Bitcoin is in its own league.

What do you mean when you say:"..because government won’t allow it"
Bitcoin is legally revised in many developed countries, bitcoin is traded on world exchanges, bitcoin can be used as payment for goods, bitcoin is taxed ... etc.
It's too late to ban Bitcoin, the war is lost. One can only try to compete by creating other cryptocurrencies such as CBDC.

BTCappu

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Do you have any knowledge about economy or how all these things works? Because, I have noticed that some of you that are saying this are saying just because you like Bitcoin, and you have looked into the possibilities of what you’re saying and whether it’s a better option or not, you just say it.

It’s not something that we are going to force to happen, you just have to understand the purpose as to wish everything was made, maybe with time everything will be right. We all know already even if we are going to be switching to cryptocurrencies, it’s not going to be Bitcoin because government won’t allow it. Bitcoin is in its own league.

cryptoboss2020

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Quote from: shield132 on November 27, 2020, 04:12:11 PM

Have you heard in your entire life that less economic activity means less economic growth? Less economic growth means that life will develop in lower rate. When GDP falls, people lose jobs and their income decrease or gets non-existent. When people lose job and income, they depend on their savings. Savings can't last forever. Also, some economists say that if we increasing inequality, i.e. richers will have to pay high taxes, it will also cause the decrease of economic growth (but I don't think so). Well, fiat isn't a winner there, it's truly shown that bitcoin succeed in the worst moment, when there was 0 hope in currencies, btc shined.

Well That's how the Bitcoin will be one world currency maybe?

shield132

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Have you heard in your entire life that less economic activity means less economic growth? Less economic growth means that life will develop in lower rate. When GDP falls, people lose jobs and their income decrease or gets non-existent. When people lose job and income, they depend on their savings. Savings can't last forever. Also, some economists say that if we increasing inequality, i.e. richers will have to pay high taxes, it will also cause the decrease of economic growth (but I don't think so). Well, fiat isn't a winner there, it's truly shown that bitcoin succeed in the worst moment, when there was 0 hope in currencies, btc shined.

palle11

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Quote from: GeorgeJohn on November 27, 2020, 07:23:14 AM

even when looking from lay man understand it's quite clear that government of a country don't even have much authorities to control fiat currency, I think these fiat of a thing is controlled by world bank according to the resources of a country.

I have only heard this kind of reasoning from you that government don't control fiat? I think they do in different ways.

1. Printing of money through the central bank: This is obvious to know that the government controls even the central bank to extent to direct how much to be printed and sent to commercial banks which is the channel that money is circulated to the system. So the government have absolute control of fiat.

2. World bank : The world bank you said is made of different people from many countries and they are led by policies which are made by people. They are given powers by government through delegation or elections.

3. Taxation: The government rise or reduce tax charge depending on the policy they want to control through fiat.

In general, the government do have control over fiat.

ChiBitCTy

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First off, at least here in the United States, inflation was very low before, unlike what you stated. It's been low for the past decade or so. I want to say last time I looked, it was roughly around 1.5% for the past decade. Also, fiat is not the winner. Stimulus and quantitative easing have been a large part of covid -19, which only does anything but help fiats long term outlook.

darewaller

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Obviously if you shut down fiat economy in a crypto related forum you are going to get a lot of support because we ran away from fiat world and came to crypto world because we have seen the things you have seen in the fiat world as well. However that is the exact reason why bitcoin nearly became 20k as well, bitcoin rises because fiat becomes less valuable.

Just in this 2020 year we have seen the debt of USA increase 25% and that is not something we would love to see, if the governments taxed the huge companies accordingly, they could have found 600 billion dollars in taxes very very easily, and that would be enough money to give to "people" as stimulus, and they could have removed all the money they paid for companies as well. Yet here we are, dollar became less valuable which caused bitcoin to be more valuable.

qwertyup23

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Quote from: zasad@ on November 24, 2020, 09:41:36 AM

Experts say that in 2022 in the United States, payments on US obligations will exceed the amount of taxes collected, and it will be necessary to turn on the printing press for money again.
https://bitnovosti.com/2020/06/14/kogda-fiatnaya-valyuta-umiraet/
This will cause hyperinflation and depreciation of the dollar as a world currency. The world will need a new currency that is not subject to inflation.

What will it be? Maybe BTC

The fact that they considered printing money in order to address such issue would definitely cause hyperinflation. This would backfire immediately in the US as the value of every dollar would drop globally.

Assuming that cryptocurrencies would become the 'new currency', wouldn't its price be subjected depending on who owns majority of the bitcoins stored due to its limited amount? I just hope that they consider cryptocurrencies as an 'alternative' payment method to most services and products available.

GeorgeJohn

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See i can agreed with you that covid19 brought inflation in so many countries but disagreed that fiat currency based on economy of a country, if you ask me i will like to have brief explanation via that, even when looking from lay man understand it's quite clear that government of a country don't even have much authorities to control fiat currency, I think these fiat of a thing is controlled by world bank according to the resources of a country. So in general it's obvious that decentralized currency is only cryptocurrency alone.

mu_enrico

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There is no need to increase taxes when you have controlled inflation. You must have heard about "inflation is a hidden tax" or Friedman's "inflation is taxation without legislation" right? Well, a trillion USD debt now will worth significantly less in the next 10 or 20 years. The key is to keep the interest rate on savings accounts slightly lower than the inflation rate, and still tax them.

yhiaali3

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The Covid-19 virus was a sunflower that revealed the weakness of the existing financial system in most countries of the world and proved the strength of Bitcoin, at a time when inflation occurred in most countries of the world and financial systems began to falter on the verge of collapse, Bitcoin remained steadfast and was able to overcome these difficult circumstances and proved that Stronger than all those failed systems.
The only problem that Bitcoin suffers from is the problem of slow verifications, and this problem can be overcome in the future by some solutions such as Bitcoin's lightning network or others.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: amishmanish on November 25, 2020, 11:29:46 PM

In the present scenario, its mostly about who has the most factories and the most consumption in a global market. Several countries have emerged as alternatives to the US. China being the most prominent. Already, investors are banking on a Chinese resurgence and investments are flowing into China. The shitshow in USA in terms of sheer divisiveness, stupidity and Trumpism is a pale marker of its former glory. If the debt condition was to worsen, I wouldn't bank on the US economy to show a miracle turnaround.

The US dollar was adopted as global HODL reserve currency due to america's economy being relatively stable, reliable and prosperous in terms of history.

Investment in china is purely political.

Chinese capitalists like Jack Ma build corporations like alibaba only to have the chinese communist party force them to step down. CCP replaces chinese capitalist CEOs with their own CCP personnel so that the state owns and controls everything. There is a considerable amount of friction between the CCP and chinese capitalists atm. As many CCP who takeover chinese corporations and banks are running them into the ground.

If Elon Musk was chinese and tesla was a chinese corporation. The CCP would force Elon Musk to step down and replace him with someone far less knowledgeable and capable to ensure CCP control and ownership over everything. And that is simply not a good way to do business.

....

Last sentence of following quote applies.

BIN-BIN

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Why the fiat base currency has not collapse yet to me is due to the fact that it is backed by the government and it central back who simply print new not to make up for any loses and lapses, the government can borrow from other country just to found it project in that way it fiat base is given a break just to meet up and keep going but it not so with cryptocurrency.

bits4books

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Quote

I don't see any better ways the Bitcoin it is...
Btc have the most technical capability for that.

To be honest, you offer to transfer from a high-speed train to a cart to the whole world.
What technical capabilities are we talking about? About a payment that takes 4-6 hours to complete? It just dont have enough TPS. Or about the need to infinitely split 1 BTC into 0.0000000000000001 so that everyone has enough coins for everyday use? The uncontrolled exchange rate that causes people to commit suicide when the market suddenly fell and they had leverage? Or about the inability to track the thief of your money who hacked your wallet?

BTC definitely does not have any features as payment system that would be at least something better than fiat as such. At the moment, it is heavy, inconvenient, slow and monstrous for the average consumer who just wants to buy bread in the store.
You are not suggesting a solution to the problem, you are creating another one

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