Topic: [FIMB] Fixed-Interest-Mining-Bond on BTC-TC (Read 8385 times)

Thanks

I'll be making all future announcements for FIMB in the updates section of the assets page, here: https://btct.co/security/FIMB#tab4

Cheers,
Garrett

Sure you did. You also got caught and paid for your sins (for the ones the community found so far). That does not make you not guilty.

That was not my intention whatsoever. I simply did this with burnside's aid to avoid paying the 5btc asset creation fee redundantly. This is currently the only real bond offering out there, so I have no fear of getting it approved if that's your chief concern here.

With regards to my negative feedback: I never scammed anybody. All the people who have left me feedback are not the ones that were involved in the wrongdoing. One of them that was involved left me a positive feedback after we resolved the issue. Seems as though I'm not the only one in need of a bit of maturity/sanity.

Also see how this thread got no responses, and the one accusing me gets hundreds. Seems as though what was once a community here, now just enjoys ripping one another apart more than anything. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/garr255-reputation-242658

Warning: Trade with extreme caution!

Garr255, it looks like you manipulated a sleeping asset on BTCT.co to skirt listing requirements. You have been moved back to the approval area for voting.

I'm certainly not an expert on bond issuance and I'm not going to pretend otherwise.

In the "olden days" (roughly one year ago) one could list an asset on an exchange and call it a perpetual bond with no fixed rate or promise of returning principal ever, and it would receive no criticism. It shows how times have changed, but changed for the better IMO.

I want this to be the best mining bond in existance, and I believe some work needs to be done to make it that. Therefore, I am delaying the release of the first 10,000 bonds until 8:00 AM PST on Monday, July 1.

Speaking transparant.

Garr255 and Werner = scammer trolls

This offering and project on a whole is hardly transparent. You may be more transparent than the majority of people in the industry, but that really isn't saying much.

You owe it to yourself and to investors to develop a comprehensive and well thought out contract for this offering. Starting with a vague two sentence contract was, to put it plainly, lazy.

The only thing I will commend you on is your willingness to accept criticism- but this issuance is a far ways away from what I would consider reasonable.

Excellent point. I just changed the contract, what do you think?


Factory: I will add the seniority clause you specified. Also, I encourage you to check out my existing mining ventures, as I have been commended for being one of the most transparant people in the industry.



My money never sleeps. I frequently need a liquid stash of coins for arbitrage trading, purchasing and reselling hardware, and miscellaneous other things.

What happens if you don't sell all 10,000 bonds? The contract states that interest payments don't start until all are sold.

In this case, do the bond holders have to wait 3 years to get their money back? Do they only get 90% back? Do they get 102% back?

That is something you should not be seeking outside advice on. That would require a fully transparent examination of the finances and operations of this venture. I doubt you would provide such transparency.


So the funds are being used to buy more chips and boards, and that hardware is the backing for this issue? The depreciation of the hardware has a good chance of outpacing the coupon rate- something that should be a red flag for investors.


I would highly suggest creating a clause stating this as Senior Issue A, and for subsequent offerings to be B, C, etc. This seniority will somewhat protect it's value for holders, even if future offerings present a more attractive yield.

So why not just use that instead of issuing a bond?  Or use that to buy then when the equipment arrives sell bonds then to get back your capital.

If the cash is going to sit in that wallet idle then selling bonds makes no sense.
If the cash is NOT going to sit in that wallet then it can't back the bonds.

What am I missing here?

I like the idea of a puttable bond. I'll add an embedded put option into the contract now. Also, I see how a defined maturity rate would make the offering more desirable. I feel as though three years would be a reasonable timeframe. Although I fully expect that I will be calling the bonds in less than two years.

What would you suggest as a fair rate for the put option? 90% of the face value is something I could do.

The bond wil be backed by the hardware purchased with raised funds, and no, the board devs have funding of their own to evolve the boards.




Alright, thanks for the good advice.

The funds are being used to purchase Avalon chips and host boards for them. I am already producing boards with over 20,000 chips so the likelihood of the project failing is very slim. However, if the investment completely and utterly fails, I have more than enough BTC on hand to repay the bond with interest. You can view the balance of my public address here. It typically has a balance of over BTC100 which should prove to you that I own sufficient BTC to repay the bond in the case of the mining endeavor totally failing.


This problem is easily solved by creating "FIMB.2" "FIMB.3" etc.

Thanks for the constructive criticism, I want to make this the best offering I can!

Regarding point 1, you need to do one of two things:

A.  Explain in detail what's being done with the cash - and how it can't possibly fail to produce sufficient cash to pay all commitments in respect of the bonds (this is impossible for anything related to mining - and, for that matter, for pretty much anything at all).
B.  Demonstrate that you have sufficient BTC-denominated assets to cover payment of interest and calling the bonds even if your mining investment totally fails.

B is the one to focus on.

You also need to define a fixed date at which interest will start to be paid.  It isn't a bond if payment depends on performance - and that includes the timing of payments as well as the amounts.  The date doesn't need to be immediate - but if it isn't then don't expect too many sales until the date gets close as until then it's just an interest-free loan.

This is singularly the most condensed stupidity produced on this forum all of...I dunno, today? Past hour?

It does however have the merits of making it clear for anyone that still had any doubts whether you've actually crossed into the dark side with your shill bidding crap that was recently discovered.

Please go away. You have no business being involved in "shares", even if you think they're "bonds".

I'm not sure. I think it's a little short. But I am not so concerned with the contract just how the face value aspect works. How can you offer a fixed face value security based on mining when the money is being used to purchase hardware? What backs up the repurchase of shares at face value? thx for comments~

As the current 'contract' is two sentences, I would suggest elaborating a bit.

Current Contract:

"Offered is a perpetual, callable mining bond that has a face value of 0.01, and upon reciept of hardware purchased from raised funds, pays a fixed two percent (2%) interest on the first day of each month. The bond can be repurchased by the issuer at any time for 102% of the face value."

Why is this perpetual? Why not have of a maturity date of 1, 2, or 5 years, or any length of time for that matter?

Has there been consideration to structure this offering as a puttable bond? Liquidity can often be an issue on exchanges, and with no maturity date it may be very appealing to investors to have the option. This would make the offering much more appealing to potential holders. Obviously, there would have to be specific provisions or a unique structure for this, as there would be no third party to guarantee payment.

Is this bond backed by any specific assets?

Why are you talking about receipt of hardware? This fixed rate bond (really) should not be dependent upon you receiving any hardware.

Is the capital raised from this bond offering to be used to further R&D efforts with the board developer?

Just a few questions to think about.

No, you won't, on bitcoin exchanges shares must be fungible.

Your contract does not mention a delay. You'll be breaking it if you don't make an interest payment 3 days after the first issue.

Yes, there will be a delay, likely until mid-August, when the Avalon chips (as said above) have arrived and are hashing.

And I will be able to make multiple bond offerings so long as I am able to track which bonds were sold in what batch.

Sure, your position is definitely understandable. Mining is an extremely profitable business, I am offering these bonds as a mitigation of risk while still being involved in mining.

How would you recommend I improve and clarify the contract?

So there will be some delay before it starts paying interest?

In this case people actually need to know what is purchased.

Also it works only if you order one thing, and you cannot sell more bonds.

A vague contract and then instantly doubling the monthly coupon just for the heck of it?

Regardless of your history and experience, you have to understand this raises eyebrows.

So 26.8% APR (compounded)

Valid point. I will easily be able to up the rate to 2% monthly. Change made.

I have over 20,000 Avalon ASIC chips on order, and am working closely with a board developer to produce boards that will allow us to overclock the chips far above the clockrate they're being shipped at in the Avalon-spec miners. ~350mh/s per chip is the current projection.

Graet is about the most trustworthy guy around here and he is paying 20% annual with daily coupons.

After all the BS you have pulled lately you really think people will lend to you at better terms than that?

"Um..... Mining stuff" is hardly transparent.

1. To the bondholder, you are right that it does not matter what the funds are being used for, so long as the interest is paid. I am publicly announcing exactly what the funds will be used for for the sake of transparency and nothing more.
2. See TF's post.

He renamed create I think:

oZoNo voted YES with comment: Note that this is more like a kickstarter-scenario than a business. There is no plan to generate income. -- odolvlobo

Yep, that's right.

1. What does this have to do with mining?
2. How is your asset approved so quickly and with less than 5 votes?

Reserved.

Also, I know the asset is currently mislabeled "stock". It will be moved to the bond category soon.

Previous mining bonds have all had a hashpower-denominated face value. This is simply not a feasible way to value an asset due to the ever-growing bitcoin difficulty. The said difficulty increases render the traditional bonds nearly worthless, making the asset a great way for the issuer to make a quick buck, and certainly not having the investor's best interest in mind. A fixed interest bond will solve the problem by guaranteeing the investor a return, and that is exactly what I am offering here.

Updated contract:
Offered is a fixed-term, fixed-interest, callable and puttable mining bond that has a face value of 0.01, and upon the sale of the initially issued 10,000 bonds, pays a fixed two percent (2%) interest on the first day of each month. The bond matures three (3) years from the date of issuance: Wednesday, July 1st, 2015. The bond can be repurchased by the issuer at any time for 102% of the face value, and can be sold back to the issuer at any time for 90% of the face value. The issuer can issue additional bonds at any time.

The first 10,000 bonds will be put up for sale on Saturday, June 29th at 8:00 AM PST.

https://btct.co/security/FIMB

This has been talked about a lot in the past, and people have shown a great deal of interest in this type of bond. This can easily be categorized as a "set-and-forget" asset, because you know exactly what will come of it Any constructive criticism is appreciated as always!

Let's get mining!

--Garrett

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