As I said earlier, the fact that the majority decides something is good for everybody does not gives, by itself, that majority the legetimity to force something onto everybody. Only when it is both done in the for the common well being, AND that people opting out is detrimental for the succes of the measure then it might become legetimate to enforce it.
This seems pretty reasonable to me. I'd give an example as something like "forcing people not to pollute the sea". I believe that this is not legitimate myself but the argument is subtle and would take us too far astray. Perhaps we can just agree to disagree on this.
There is a subtle difference between "forcing people not to pollute the sea" and "forcing people to take insurance". One is to force people to not do something, and the other is to force people to do something. I believe the first is a lot more easy to justify that the second; ones argument to justify to force to do something must be a lot damn stronger that ones that to justify to not do something.
Why? Because forcing somebody to do something he dissagrees with is a lot more "painful" to him than to not do something he'd like to.
I believe your objection might lie somewhere along these lines?
One question: What happens in a society composed entirely of democrats that accept your "common-good + common-tragedy" axiom but where the majority don't believe that bank insurance follows this axiom. Would it still be a legitimately democratic matter?
If the society was entirely made of democrats, then I'd believe that choosing if something is democratic or not is itself a democratic choice. (Which exactly is a Bill of Rights/Charter of Freedom: A democratic choice in which democrats decided to specifically exclude some choices as being democratic.) Thus if the majority decides that bank insurance is not a democratic choice, then it isn't until they decide otherwise.
(Also, in the case of bank insurance, it is not even forcing individuals to take an insurance. It is the government that takes upon itself to ensure deposits.)
You're letting yourself down here. Government forcing individuals to pay for their own bank insurance would be less objectionable (still not good). The original proposal implies government forcing people to pay for other people's bank insurance.
Ahhh! Hmm. I guess you believe that the least government the better? I guess that's why you dissagree strongly here; because I do not have such objections. In fact, I believe that in every case the state decides, by a tragedy of the commons argument, that everybody should take/subscribe/use something, then the only "fair" way to do this is if the government takes the job itself. Because giving it to the private sector is essentially granting them a "free" monopoly, and letting the unavoidable profits (I'ts difficult to fail with a monopoly) end in the hands of a few, wheras the whole point of this was for the common good. So then the government should run the thing and use the profits for the common good. (I'm of course assuming the governemnt does a -good- job at managing those assets. Which it doesn't always do. But it is not impossible that it did, and in any case, that a give implementation of an idea is flawed does not undernmine the idea itself)
I'll take for example Hydro-Quebec, the power company from where I live. It is almost run as a private company, but the government owns all the shares. Hydro-Quebec is really efficient with it's assets, produces huge profits, (so huge that a lot of people pressure the government to pressure the company to reduce the cost of electricy even if it already costs us about 60% of the price of electricity elsewhere), and all those profits goes to the government.
A second point of view, specific to the bank insurance, was more what I tought when I said "Also, in the case of bank insurance, it is not even forcing individuals to take an insurance. It is the government that takes upon itself to ensure deposits." -> If the governement forces everybody to take their own insurance, that's one thing. If the governement provides insurance to banks, without forcing anybody to pay anything, except the usual taxes, then I might be seen not as "the government provides insurance to the people", it might be seen as "the government takes insurance for itself against civil unrest". The difference is subtle, and the end result, exactly the same. It's not just the same moral footing.
Anyway, I think you're arguing well here.
Well thak you!
I'm happy to see that my arguments are clear, because English is not my first language.
I'd like to end this on a side note. It's a really interesting talk. I like debating with people of different opinion of mine. The Bitcoin community is interesting in that it provides an interesting sample of right-leaning people that have smarter arguments than I'm used to. I've have interesting arguments with the left two years ago during the Quebec student strike. I myself see myself as moderately left-leaning liberal-democrat. (I'm using these words in an "absolute" political sense, not in reference to any party that might have these words in their name)
In that, I'm not specifically excited by some of the features of bitcoin that excites most of it's early adopters. But I don't dissagree with those features eighter; I understand how some might like them.
-I don't really care about anonymity. (On the contrary, the ability to track funds troughout the blockchain will, someday, be very useful to law enforcement I believe. Bitcoin does help "small" crimes (drug transaction), but it makes impossible to launder huge amounts of money. Both things I like.)
-I don't really care about fixed supply. (in fact, I believe that a small but know inflation might be better. But it's just an intuition. In any case, if the fixed supply ever gets a problem, then this can be changed by concensus).
-I don't really care about the fact that it is not government issued.
What I -do- care a lot about is that it is
trustless system that enables people to send money all over the world. No intermediates like VISA, paypal that take huge fees and get to chose who gets to use their service or not.
Just that makes Bitcoin revolutionary.I also like that it gives back to the people some power over the monetary policy. The fact that we are currently all dependent upon banking institution for our money gives them way too much power. If something gets too big to fail, It should be dismantled. (I did say earlier that "I don't really care about the fact that it is not government issued" -> I don't see contradiction here as I believe that a (good) government expresses the will of the people. But currently, government prints money, but banks dictates money policy.)