Topic: Flexcoin is LIVE to everyone! - page 4. (Read 12928 times)

They charge triple the fees we do  (they charge in both directions, and even more than triple if you count what has to go to dwolla) .. so it's VERY fair to throw them in there in the same sentence.   That's just my opinion.

That depends on how often people transfer out and flexcoin collects the transaction fee... theoretically you could make that in a month (when discount payments are sent) if the adoption rate was high with high bitcoin valued holders.  Because the transaction fees would be substantial, as would the discount payment sent to you....  it could also be 1000 years if the adoption rate is terrible.....   it completely depends on how well flexcoin does overall.

I will answer the rest of the questions later tonight...  I need to get home.

Well, first of all, it wasn't that risky    Quite easy I thought it was.  I'm a day trader so that minimizes risk.  And, Tradehill and Mt. Gox have shown their faces.  I like that.

Second of all, that was my point.  It's not fair to compare the two, which is exactly what my post was about.  He made the comparison between the two, throwing Flexcoin in the middle of the same sentence as being comparable to Mt. Gox and TradeHill in that they all charge a fee.  I said what I said because it's not a fair comparison.  I can profit significantly on TH and Mt. Gox but cannot do the same with FlexCoin.

That's like comparing a bank deposit with gambling. You earned 200%, but it was risky. Investments with lower risks provide lower interests.

With all due respect, I have made 2 accounts with you, and am very reluctant to deposit any BTC for many of the concerns listed here (e.g. proof of non-fractional reserves, no current implementation or proof of offline storage -- by the way, at least 95% should be stored offline -- the cater-to-the-rich interest system, etc.).  Comparing your site to tradehill/mt.gox/campbx is unjustified.  It's like making the argument "Bob likes pizza, Mike likes pizza, therefore bob is mike" (in the context that they both like pizza).  Yes, they all implement fees, But with TradeHill and Mt.Gox, I have been able to make 200% profit from my original investment in as little as 1 month.  How long would it take me to make 30 BTC from an original investment of, say, 10 BTC, using only Flexcoin?

I am not trying to hound you, even though after some of my more positive posts earlier in this thread it may now appear that I have jumped on a bandwagon of negativity and scrutiny.  But prima facie evidence suggests that not only have peoples' scam/loss worries increased exponentially since Mt. Gox, MyBitcoin, etc., but the number of scammers have increased exponentially as well, even during the past few weeks.

With reference to the interest problem, I think that a system that caters to the POOR would help your business long term.  So, for example (I haven't given this a lot of immediate thought), take into account the total number of BTC in you system, maybe average both the mean and median of total BTC in your system, have a set fee % rate, and then have all transaction fees from accounts below that average pay out to those above the average, and have all transaction fees from accounts above the average pay out those below it.  So...imaginary 11 account data set...

BTC = {1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 25, 50, 100, 1000, 5000, 10000}
Mean =1620.8
Median = 25
1625.8/2 = 822.9
So, with the set fee, accounts 1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 25, 50, and 100 would all pay fee interest to the accounts with 1000, 5000, and 10,000.  In contrast, those with 1000, 5000, and 10,000 BTC would pay fees to the other 8 lower accounts below the 822.9 BTC threshold.  This would take into account the early adopter problem and the presumed fact that, like American class system, the top 1-5% of the Bitcoin population probably owns 95-99% of the Bitcoins (maybe a little less, I obviously am not sure).  Then, you can skim your little bit off the top.

Forgive the anger of my previous post - I've been thinking about mybitcoin too much today. Anyway, there is one difference that I still can't figure out here - mtgox, tradehill, etc provide a service to get USD (and other currencies) into an account so you can move BTC<->USD.

• What exactly am I getting from the fee that Flexcoin is charging
• How do I know what the income incentive is to point my mining rig payments to Flexcoin? This isn't mentioned anywhere on the site that I can see.

I understand the solutions you're describing on the site - regarding address and payment flexibility/ease - but isn't that more of a "keep the money at flexcoin" vs creating a scalable and community-wide useful system similar to DNS? Basically what you're describing is a BTC DNS system that resolves easy to remember names like "coffee shop" to e55bbc849e5d9ac825a5a69942af1ad2 (or similarly hard to deal with). But it's nothing more than a remake of Paypal.

I think that in his idea, you would display a nickname (or several) for each account holder along with their balance (or portion of their balance allocated to that nickname).  That way, everyone could look at the list and make sure their name was on it, that their balance was correct, and that the sum for accounts was the same as the sum of the addresses (shown on block explorer).  You wouldn't be able to go fractional by leaving some names off the list to balance things out because you wouldn't know which people are going to be looking for their own information.

You pay a transaction fee of X BTC to send coins out.  Flexcoin includes a transaction fee of Y BTC in the transfer.  X is easy to calculate from the transfer amount, because it is set by Flexcoin policy using a simple formula: X=max(0.01,amount*0.005).  Y is not easy to calculate in advance, because of the way the bitcoin client works.  But you don't care, because you don't pay Y directly, you pay X.

Next, Flexcoin calculates Z, which is the sum of all the cash out fees paid by users (X), minus the sum of all their paid network transaction fees paid by Flexcoin (Y).  Z is their operating profit for whatever accounting period they use.  They then distribute 70% of Z back to depositors as profit sharing (their lawyer makes them call it a "discount" so they don't have to file paperwork with the IRS), and they keep 30% of Z as their net profit.

Is that clearer?

Blockexplorer would provide the proof if they are being wired out...  we'll try to figure a way to display that the figures match 1:1 bitcoins to flexcoins...  but honestly we never even considered this as a question, much less something we had to build.   

If you don't want to use any service that charges a fee like tradehill, mtgox, flexcoin, campbx or any other bitcoin service then no one is forcing you to....  regardless you had a valid point regarding the balance displayed and that's being addressed.

Good point... we can have that displayed.

Sounds more like the Flexcoin guys just want to monopolize the transaction system so that they get a % of the BTCs in their system even though they are basically providing nothing useful. Online wallets are pointless. If you can't run the client on your computer you need to wake up and get your head out of the sand - Flexcoin, Mybitcoin, Instawallet, etc ----> they're all here to siphon *just a bit* of the creme off top.


Exactly - keep the money in YOUR system for free as an incentive to not be taxed for the transfer. This whole flexcoin idea is a nice profit game for you isn't it. It's pretty clear you're just in it for the % gain from everyone else's mining efforts.

Reminds me of:

I am trying to move BTC from Flexcoin to another address. My balance is X and it keeps saying, when I try to transfer the full amount of X that I do not have enough btc to do the transfer. WTF is this SHIT? If there is a fee cost to transfer you need to tell the user how much they can move without having to guess and play the subtraction game.

When you have money on the bank, you will earn more money from interest if you have more money on your account. Here happens the same. The fees are there to encourage people to use flexcoin for payments.

Hi Kbundy,

You realize it's free to transfer flexcoin to flexcoin ...  tell the person you want to transfer that .0000001 to his flexcoin address.

+1

Hello again,

The idea to attract "big money" is on the whole, a good thing.  It shows that people are still willing to take the substantial risk of loss on investment to convert to bitcoin, and this ballsiness is important if bitcoin is to succeed.

That being said, the way I understand the fee/discount system is that it's stealing from the poor and giving to the rich.  People wishing to transfer small amounts out of their flexcoin accounts are going to have to pay a minimum fee, making the withdrawal of  micro-payments impractical for the little guys.

To be fair, I really like the site, and what it's about, the thing is that me, the average user, is being turned off by the fees being unevenly weighted.

EG: Say I want to withdraw just 1BTC from my account, the minimum I'd have to pay is .01BTC (1%)  <- this is a lot.  These fees are then given to those who have a ton of  BTC just sitting in their accounts as "discounts", hence, stealing from the poor and giving to the rich.  Something fundamentally wrong here, but easily corrected by charging a fair flat rate.

Like I said before, instead of charging a fee and returning 70% of those fees as discounts, (a large part going to the BTC wealthy,) simply charge 30% of the fee you're trying to charge in the first place.

EG: 0.003BTC or 0.15% on all withdrawals.

-KBundy

WHO registered porn, sex and xxx before i had a chance?

Well how do we solve that?  we would have to know where these bitcoins came from?  What is asked is physically impossible,  we can't reasonably be expected track down where a bitcoin came from? Because we would have to physically track each coin from it's inception and then on top of that find out who owned that coin from it's "birth"  .

I want to point out in your example the point where they bought bitcoins (where they CANNOT do that on flexcoin) is where they laundered the money.

Criminals most likely would setup a TOR server and do garbage though that...