Topic: [FOR ADMINS] An Open Letter to Bitcointalk.org Admins Regarding Ponzi Schemes - page 2. (Read 3337 times)

I think all ponzis should be banned. The 'Games and rounds' board is messed up with ponzis.

@OP : Are you trying to advertise your Twitter account? Isn't advertising in posts agains forum rule unless approved?

   ~~MZ~~

While your point is valid, you need to see the opposing side. Ponzi's are in a way gambling. Can they be profitable? Yes, ran by moral people, which is the only reason they are allowed. However, most all ponzi operators now a days scamming any investors which is a problem. So in my opinion, they need to be banned and disallowed.

An Open Letter to the Administrators of Bitcointalk.org,

As everyone is well aware - this particular board has recently become littered with advertisements for 'Ponzi Schemes', which I can't but think is not a positive thing for this forum, the bitcointalk community, or the digital currency industry as a whole.

Bitcointalk.org has certainly established itself as a leading source for the discussion, collaboration, and innovation within the digital currency arena. I have learned a great deal here, and I applaud theymos, ckolivas, malevolent, and the other admins of this site for creating this community and working so hard to keep it running and growing.

With that said; I find it disheartening, yet not surprising, that these posts have begun to spark up like wildfire, very similar to the Alt-coin Rush of 2014. Let's not forget how many of those very Alt-coins which were promoted here turned out to be scams in and of themselves.

While I am all for freedom of speech and expression, and I certainly am not a fan of censorship, I feel that clearly advertising 'Ponzis' on this forum, and this being tolerated, cannot be good for the Bitcointalk community in the long run.

We can all agree - Bitcoin and crytpo-currencies have had enough of bad press, and it is only a matter of time before a spotlight get's thrown on this particular aspect of how bitcoins can be used for nefarious purposes, or at the very least these posts will be used as additional ammunition by the anti-bitcoin groups to further push Bitcoin down.

A Ponzi scheme by definition, is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the operator. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. Taken from Wikipedia.org

So the question I ask is do these advertisements, clearly and openly advertising ponzi schemes, have a place here? If so, where will the line be drawn? Will users openly be able to post ads for narcotics, or other illegal items such as weapons for sale in the Marketplace?

Again, I don't think this comes down to censorship. Users of Bitcoin can use their bitcoins to buy whatever they please as long as it doesn't harm other people. But Ponzi's are designed in nature to harm other people. To steal their money. To defraud investors.

With that said, I am respectfully asking that this issue be considered by the Bitcointalk staff and owners; and for thought to be given as to whether these types of services and programs should really have a home here in the Gambling section of Bitcointalk.org.

I certainly welcome comments and thoughts on this issue.

Strato

Follow me @Stratobitz on Twitter

Argument #1: Ponzi sites are illegal
So are gambling websites that don't have the proper gambling licenses.
So are Bitcoin exchanges that do not have the proper money transmitter licenses or AML procedures.
So are lenders that don't abide by payday loan laws.
So are public performances of the song "Happy birthday to you" which is copyrighted by Warner/Chappell Music.

Argument #2: All ponzi sites are a scam
If the ponzi site fulfills their side of the deal and does exactly what they promise and both parties are willingly trading, where did the scam occur?

Argument #3: Ponzi's should be banned because they make Bitcoin look "bad"
Instead of banning ponzi's, why don't we make things a bit better and form a mining cartel, make a blacklist of bitcoin addresses known to be used by ponzi sites and never confirm any ponzi site payments?

 

The general ethos of Bitcoin is for free market trade and against regulation. How can you actually believe that and at the same time be trying to ban people from using Bitcoin because it makes Bitcoin look bad?

Argument #4: Most ponzi sites aren't provably fair so they are scams
There is probably a way to make ponzi sites provably fair using tx scripts. But if ponzi sites are a scam due to the lack of provably fair, then so are all gambling sites that don't have provably fair, such as poker sites and sportsbook websites.

19. Possible (or real) scams and Trust ratings are not moderated (to prevent moderation abuse).

Q: Why haven't you banned who is an obvious scammer?
A: Possible (or real, not for me to decide) scams are not moderated to prevent moderator abuse. If we start picking out which ones we call "scammers" and ban, we would make a lot of decisions based on biased opinions.

A lot of people have raised this issue on bitcointalk. At the end, I think it all comes down to a point when people stop investing in these ponzis and they stop happening because owners get bored now. 

Argument #1: Ponzi sites are illegal
So are gambling websites that don't have the proper gambling licenses.
So are Bitcoin exchanges that do not have the proper money transmitter licenses or AML procedures.
So are lenders that don't abide by payday loan laws.
So are public performances of the song "Happy birthday to you" which is copyrighted by Warner/Chappell Music.

Argument #2: All ponzi sites are a scam

If the ponzi site fulfills their side of the deal and does exactly what they promise and both parties are willingly trading, where did the scam occur?

Argument #3: Ponzi's should be banned because they make Bitcoin look "bad"
Instead of banning ponzi's, why don't we make things a bit better and form a mining cartel, make a blacklist of bitcoin addresses known to be used by ponzi sites and never confirm any ponzi site payments?

 

The general ethos of Bitcoin is for free market trade and against regulation. How can you actually believe that and at the same time be trying to ban people from using Bitcoin because it makes Bitcoin look bad?

Argument #4: Most ponzi sites aren't provably fair so they are scams
There is probably a way to make ponzi sites provably fair using tx scripts. But if ponzi sites are a scam due to the lack of provably fair, then so are all gambling sites that don't have provably fair, such as poker sites and sportsbook websites.

Argument #5: Ponzi's arent entertainment
People have different opinions on what entertainment is. It may not be entertaining for you, but I'm sure its entertaining for others.

Argument #6: Ponzi's are scams because people will lose money
There will always be people who lose money on any gambling website. Otherwise the website would be losing money.

Thats all the arguments I can think of right now.

I agree ponzi's are a bad investment and people should not send their coins to them.  

But that is true for all gambling situations where the fun should offset the house edge.  The header for this section points out: Gambling and all "investments" that are so risky they might as well be gambling (HYIPs, pyramid schemes, etc.)  Which suggests the ponzi threads are in the right place.

If people would rather have fun risking their coins in a ponzi rather than in a dice site why shouldn't they?  The forum is dedicated to free expression and is not going to try and protect people from their own stupidity.  I don't think anyone can spend any time on here and not know that ponzi's are risky, heck people assert that all of bitcoin is a ponzi!

If you have not already, you may want to check the meta thread where a lot of comments like yours have been posted often drawing admin responses.

Good luck.

I understand your situation however it they make Ponzi schemes illegal then won't that make gambling illegall all together?

Both situations the person is gambling and might lose money.