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Topic: For Individuals looking to get into the Mining Game in 2014, please read this! - page 2. (Read 17190 times)

sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
I know what you mean, but I don't have the financial luxury to buy a mining rig as a hobby... that is why I'm concerned about at least breaking even, even if I don't profit.

This is what people are referring to when they say, "don't invest anything you can't afford to lose". Mining is a very high risk investment. If you can't imagine the money you spent on a mining rig gone forever, please do not invest that money.

I'm a techie and a gamer so I have spent all kinds of money on all kinds of stuff just to tinker with it and never got a penny back from it.

With mining I get the best of both worlds...tinker around with cool gadgets and play this mining game and get a few satoshis on the side.

I know its hard to believe for some people but I look at all this stuff as fun and in all honesty even if BTC crashed to zero tomorrow I would continue mining until long after the body was declared dead...just to make sure.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
I know what you mean, but I don't have the financial luxury to buy a mining rig as a hobby... that is why I'm concerned about at least breaking even, even if I don't profit.

This is what people are referring to when they say, "don't invest anything you can't afford to lose". Mining is a very high risk investment. If you can't imagine the money you spent on a mining rig gone forever, please do not invest that money.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
I don't get it...so since OP decided he doesn't want to mine anymore because of the stress, heat, noise, "the grind", adding hash power to keep up with the difficulty and his self-admitted OCD that won't let him enjoy a night out if one of his rigs goes down, he's doing a public service by discouraging anyone else from mining? I respect that OP has decided mining is not for him. I also agree that there is a huge potential market for retailers and service providers that accept Bitcoin. On the other hand, not everyone finds mining to be a high stress "chore" that keeps you from enjoying life. Some do this as a hobby in their spare time for personal enjoyment. Others make it into a business.

Standard disclaimer: Don't invest anything you can't afford to lose and always be well informed about any investments you decide to make.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 251
I like big BITS and I cannot lie.
Damn it you guise I would have started mining last week but this thread convinced me not to.... I could have mined LTC and Dog coin and now Dog coin just exploded in price!

Really? You're that easily influenced? Dude, don't blame us. Its your job to make good decisions, not ours.

I was just kidding, I'm still gonna do it

Oh yeah, the #1 problem of text communications: the lack of inflection. Nice one, very nice one. Wink
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
dafar consulting
Damn it you guise I would have started mining last week but this thread convinced me not to.... I could have mined LTC and Dog coin and now Dog coin just exploded in price!

Really? You're that easily influenced? Dude, don't blame us. Its your job to make good decisions, not ours.

I was just kidding, I'm still gonna do it
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 251
I like big BITS and I cannot lie.
Damn it you guise I would have started mining last week but this thread convinced me not to.... I could have mined LTC and Dog coin and now Dog coin just exploded in price!

Really? You're that easily influenced? Dude, don't blame us. Its your job to make good decisions, not ours.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
dafar consulting
Damn it you guise I would have started mining last week but this thread convinced me not to.... I could have mined LTC and Dog coin and now Dog coin just exploded in price!
member
Activity: 101
Merit: 10
Started mining 2 weeks before 2014...still making money, still recouped my costs.

While I think this thread is complete garbage for the most part, I will agree that investing in anything without prior knowledge of its workings is silly and generally leads to failure.  That being said, it is completely possible and still very easy as of this moment to make money..

2 months from now??  well, we will have to see then
hero member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 500
ALL MINERS (SCRYPT/ASIC/SCRYPTJANE/BLAKE256) HAVE A COMMON INTEREST TO TELL YOU MINING IS NEVER PROFITABLE.

While that may be true, theoretically, in this case Im truly trying to do the community a service because of the number of newcomers who I see about to get burned, who maybe cant afford it, and I dont think thats good for Bitcoin. People need to have realistic expectations. This isnt some Don Lapre late night infomercial. Go look at a BFL ad if you want that, and marvel at the uncanny resemblance between Don and Josh Zerlan.

This is a public service announcement.

My interest personally in the mining game is not primarily financial. The amount I can or will mine in a month now is maybe .1% of my coins. Point one. I mine now for the love of the game.

I wanted this discussion to move in another direction - directing people towards avenues where there are healthy profits to be made. I understand its the mining forum, so the discussion has stayed focused on mining, and if thats what you all would like to discuss, Im happy to. I see a lot of people talking about Alt-coin mining, so lets talk about that.

The alt-coin mining forecast has moved from dark and stormy (Aug-Sept) to very sunny (Nov-Dec) back to overcast again. The winds change quickly in the mining game. When Litecoin almost hit $50, I knew there was going to be a tidal wave of GPU orders, as well as a correction in the market. Anyone who has followed mining for some time (and Im a newbie compared to many on here) will attest to this. There were periods, 2-3 years ago when BTC mining was no longer profitable and many bigtime GPU-farm miners dropped out entirely because they could not make ROI (many pro miners only hold onto a tiny % of the total coins they mine, preferring to convert most into fiat immediately). Yes, there was a time when BTC difficulty went down, as far away as that seems now, yes it did really happen (and may again in the future). But I digress...

I had actually dropped out of LTC mining for a while in Sept because I just moved to a nice new place and didnt want to spoil it with PCs all over the place (at this time, I had around 18 cards across 6 rigs). I was content to just watch the BTC-e ticker and do a little day trading. I hadnt sold off my rigs, mostly just due to laziness, they were just still all boxed up from the move. Then as autumn progressed LTC went on a bit of a heater, and when it hit its all time high ($5) I couldnt resist and started firing up rigs. The weather was cooling off and if I just set up a few of them, it would be fairly discreet. AMD had released its r9 series, and being an avid gamer, I always like to try the latest cards and I quickly realized that the 280x was a very nice mining card that while a bit finnicky to tweak, could be undervolted for awesome efficiency. I ordered 4 more and picked up an old mobo, CPU, RAM and PS from a friend who was liquidating his rigs. I set up just a few rigs initially, and then, all of them. Thats the mining bug. Its like a sickness. Oh well. I was - and still am - back in the game.

But my return to GPU-mining is probably going to be short lived. Many of my cards are older 6950s, and they are starting to have the usual issue - dying fan. I think I even finally killed one of my cards which would be the first time ever for me (Im going to try baking it, which can heal the micro-cracks). The tidal wave of GPUs has hit, and boy did it hit hard. I started LTC mining heavily when the difficulty was 17. Seventeen. The difficulty now is 4000, and the price is stuck in the $23-24 range (oh the humanity! actually, Im thrilled with anything over $10). I have very little to gain in terms of adding to my stash. I recently had the chance to buy a whole bunch of new-in-box 280x and 7970s for $300 each, which judging from Newegg is a now great deal (lol cause used 7970s were ~$200 on ebay in August) but decided to pass. Why? Two reasons:

1) I looked at the numbers and its marginal. 280x will generate around $100/month in LTC, or roughly 5 LTC. This number will diminish rapidly given how many GPUs are coming online every day. When mining hardware has a ROI of 4 months or so, Im basically indifferent to mining or buying the coins, financially speaking, and anyone who has been in the game for a while will tell you that buying is a hell of lot less work and stress than mining - not to mention the heat and noise if you mine at home. 2) That heat right now is probably saving me $500/month on gas to heat my place, so its much easier to justify. But come April, Im going to shut the whole thing down and sell off all my rigs. The writing is on the wall and I simply cant and dont want to compete with these 100mh datacenter rigs. In 2014, its either go pro or go home. While I sincerely respect the people who have chosen to go fulltime pro, thats not something that interests me at this time. I have other commitments and plans for 2014.

Im optimistic that I will eventually receive my Black Arrow and Alpha Tech ASICs, but if I dont I might actually breathe a sigh of relief. If you have ever had to dip out of a night on the town with your friends because one of your rigs went down and the OCD part of you cant enjoy the evening because of it, you will probably understand. Mining is probably not the most psychologically healthy or mentally stimulating enterprise. Its a grind.

To the guy who is solo mining BTC with 8mh, thats the fucking spirit dude. People can shove their ROI up their ass (sorry, but Ive had a few drinks). I salute you and other independent miners who support the Bitcoin network through thick and through thin and help support decentralization. You just reminded me to setup a full qt node on an extra machine I have. You embody the spirit of Bitcoin, and Im quite sure that somewhere, somehow, Satoshi is thinking of you and smiling.




sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
I just mine solo with my 8GH/S. I use it as lottery ticket=)
Ans yes, i checked maths, i have  much better odds on winning the whole block  then winning in lottery.

Here in germany, if I will play 6of49 Lottery twice a  week for  about 20 Euros, i will spend 960 Euro total for tickets.  My average win will be around 530 Euro, so i will  even lose money on the long run (what a surprise Roll Eyes).

With my 8GH/S   for 300 Euros I have  3% chance to find a block in one year.
OK, lets take in account the difficulty will increase(even if i think that it will not grow exponentially  forever, but rather will stabilize  very soon), but  even so i have better odds while mining solo;)
jr. member
Activity: 59
Merit: 10
That KNC Neptune ad has SCAM written all over it.  Some lines in the ad :

"We reserve the right to increase the hashing speed".  Like anyone will pitch a bitch about getting more speed.  That sentence is there purely to excite the naive Bitcoin mining noob into thinking he needs to buy NOW and get the best deal.

"Limited batch of 1200".  Wow, they really think we are morons.  Well, anyone buying their first ASIC at this point is, as far as I'm concerned.  What is KNC going to do if that batch of 1200 Neptunes sells out?  Say "No, we don't want to make any more money off the naive noobs just getting started in Bitcoin", and refuse to sell more of them?

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- DO NOT BUY ANY ASICS!!!! GPU mine Scrypt coins if you want to make money! Shocked

About the increasing hashing speed, it might be misleading, however they did increase the hashing speed when delivering the ASIC Jupiter (they offered 450GHps and delivered 550 GHps). Then I do hope they will deliver some 20% more with the Neptune also.

About the Limited batch, it is just how many units they can put in the market in 1 month. Right now they are selling the 3rd group of 1200 units. Once they sell out, they will start with another 1200 units batch for the next month. If they were able to put in the market 5000 units per month, they will very likely be selling monthly batches of 5000 units.

I don't think KNC is scam (I am already using few Jupiters), what I am not 100% sure is how profitable those Neptunes will be. But in bitcoin everything is a risk.
I don't have an opinion yet about Scrypt coins profitability, but I am interested so I will be checking that out.
hero member
Activity: 1582
Merit: 502
I've been saying for months now that a person would have to be a fool and / or have no financial sense at all to spend one penny buying BTC mining gear.  The few big money players have pushed the difficulty so high that it simply is not profitable anymore for small time players.  And don't forget the ASIC manufacturers who are mining with their own machines for months before they fill your pre-sold orders.  Don't deny it, it happens, they'd be idiots not to do it!

I agree with what was said about reptilian brains taking over, it was people with their reptilian brains that got me a $7200 net profit for my 205 LiteCoins I sold off in the first week of December.  I had mined the LTC in aug, sept, and oct, and held it while the price stayed at $2.

Now I mine Litecoin / Feathercoin / Dogecoin, and I am using the highs and lows of the BTC / LTC / FTC / DOGE markets on cryptsy to manipulate my coins into more coins.  It's the least expense and probably the best profit opportunity for me.

And me making money is all that matters!   Grin

May I ask what pool(s) are you using?

Also what equipment?

sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Asic hardware for scrypt is expected to become available some time this year.

Because of this investing in new gpu based hardware has become as risky.

The "ASICS" are mostly scams/lies and even the ones that might be true are barely better than GPUs so I wouldn't worry about that in the slightest. I predict that if anyone will make a scrypt ASIC it will be AMD and even then graphics cards can still be used for gaming so there is no real way to lose out.

How about an asic with a port for use as a gpu?
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 101
Asic hardware for scrypt is expected to become available some time this year.

Because of this investing in new gpu based hardware has become as risky.

The "ASICS" are mostly scams/lies and even the ones that might be true are barely better than GPUs so I wouldn't worry about that in the slightest. I predict that if anyone will make a scrypt ASIC it will be AMD and even then graphics cards can still be used for gaming so there is no real way to lose out.
legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
Asic hardware for scrypt is expected to become available some time this year.

Because of this investing in new gpu based hardware has become as risky.
hero member
Activity: 955
Merit: 1004
That KNC Neptune ad has SCAM written all over it.  Some lines in the ad :

"We reserve the right to increase the hashing speed".  Like anyone will pitch a bitch about getting more speed.  That sentence is there purely to excite the naive Bitcoin mining noob into thinking he needs to buy NOW and get the best deal.

"Limited batch of 1200".  Wow, they really think we are morons.  Well, anyone buying their first ASIC at this point is, as far as I'm concerned.  What is KNC going to do if that batch of 1200 Neptunes sells out?  Say "No, we don't want to make any more money off the naive noobs just getting started in Bitcoin", and refuse to sell more of them?

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- DO NOT BUY ANY ASICS!!!! GPU mine Scrypt coins if you want to make money! Shocked
newbie
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
I was talking with a corporate farm owner that had invested 500k into 1st gen mining equipment which only did double digit Gh/s, now they're stuck and can't afford to get the single digit Th/s due in 2014.
This makes absolutely no sense, unless the "500k in 1st gen mining equipment" happens to have been block erupters purchased in the past 2 months @ $100/ea.

500k in Avalon batch 3s or clones, or BFL gear would leave you pretty broke right now.

There's always eBay... Wink
newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
I was talking with a corporate farm owner that had invested 500k into 1st gen mining equipment which only did double digit Gh/s, now they're stuck and can't afford to get the single digit Th/s due in 2014.
This makes absolutely no sense, unless the "500k in 1st gen mining equipment" happens to have been block erupters purchased in the past 2 months @ $100/ea.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 101
I started mining a few months ago with a few block erupters. Quickly realised I was better off mining litecoin so sold the erupters for 4 times what I paid and bought a couple GPUs. By this point I was in profit and continue to increase that profit by mining altcoins and exchanging them for bitcoin. Whether these altcoins will last is irrelevant because they are worth money now, so who cares if they will be here in a few months, I sure don't. I wanted to mine because I didn't like uploading my passport and shit to Russian websites. I'm new to cryptos but I learnt early on that bitcoin mining was pointless, so switched to scrypt. Perhaps scrypt won't be worth a damn soon too but at least I had fun and made a small amount of money along the way.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1057
SpacePirate.io
You can profit from mining, but the key is to invest into enough Gh/s and carefully watch your return on investment.  However, you need to reinvest into more mining equipment as difficulty rises while keeping an eye on the price of bitcoin. At the same time, you need to carefully invest into the next generation of mining equipment.  The large mining farms can't afford to reinvest into 3rd generation mining equipment because they're still trying to pay for the return on the 1st or 2nd gen equipment.  I was talking with a corporate farm owner that had invested 500k into 1st gen mining equipment which only did double digit Gh/s, now they're stuck and can't afford to get the single digit Th/s due in 2014.

To sum up, a miner can profit but I would say the entry point now is $6k - $12k in early 2014, whereas before $1k could get you mining at a profit in early 2013.  That being said, mining is very high risk and requires a lot of thought and constant calculation to maintain a positive ROI. 
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