Just for anyone who doesn't know - 'trading bitcoin' on this broker is no different than trading any other forex symbol. You'll never own the bitcoin you buy and sell and it will be impossible to withdraw it.
You'll only ever be trading on a simulated market - the data-feed is from MtGox (the real marketplace) but your orders will likely never arrive there, the broker will chose which orders to submit and which orders to trade 'in-house' as a market-maker.
You might as well just sign up with a reputable, well known forex broker and trade the forex symbol of your choosing.
Cheers, Paul.
Topic: Forex broker plus500 has opened for Bitcoin trading. - page 2. (Read 16072 times)
Ah, I was wondering how they manage to offer shorts on BTC. Now I know! 
(FYI: they can simply loan the customers BTC to the shorters. Smart move by them. Building up the BTC position is a one time thing.)
The real question is: what happens if everybody wants to short BTC on Plus500???
(FYI: they can simply loan the customers BTC to the shorters. Smart move by them. Building up the BTC position is a one time thing.)
The real question is: what happens if everybody wants to short BTC on Plus500???
hm? as I understand it there are no BTC involved at all. No BTC are borrowed or sold on mtgox. It's just CFD (contract for difference), basically a betting site.
I don't think you truly understand how CFDs are synthesized. What do you think happens when you buy a FTSE or S&P CFD?
They need to hedge at least the net position of their clients - or they are betting against their clients position. For example if Plus500 has many long term investors holding BTC in their account they EITHER need to buy BTC in the same amount to hedge themselves OR they are betting that BTC is dropping in value.
Or they post complete fake prices, and I'm sure they cannot do this.
I admit lack of knowledge in this area. That's why I had been asking. After reading a book called "reminiscences of a stock operator" and the descriptions of "bucket shops" therein, I got the impression these shops would not hedge at all but simply take the opposite side of their customers bets. If so, they indeed "work like satoshi dice", who also take the opposite side of their customers bets and still make money in the long run off of fees (in bucket shop case this is the spread an other fees).
I doubt they post fake prices... too easy to verify (they say it's based on mtGox market), but I also doubt they hedge on gox for some reason.
In the case they do hedge, they better have some BTC ready to sell in case cumulative position of customers is short, right?
Ah, I was wondering how they manage to offer shorts on BTC. Now I know!
(FYI: they can simply loan the customers BTC to the shorters. Smart move by them. Building up the BTC position is a one time thing.)
The real question is: what happens if everybody wants to short BTC on Plus500???
(FYI: they can simply loan the customers BTC to the shorters. Smart move by them. Building up the BTC position is a one time thing.)
The real question is: what happens if everybody wants to short BTC on Plus500???
hm? as I understand it there are no BTC involved at all. No BTC are borrowed or sold on mtgox. It's just CFD (contract for difference), basically a betting site.
I don't think you truly understand how CFDs are synthesized. What do you think happens when you buy a FTSE or S&P CFD?
They need to hedge at least the net position of their clients - or they are betting against their clients position. For example if Plus500 has many long term investors holding BTC in their account they EITHER need to buy BTC in the same amount to hedge themselves OR they are betting that BTC is dropping in value.
Or they post complete fake prices, and I'm sure they cannot do this.
Is there a catch in the 25 euros bonus with no deposit requirement?
you have to register personal details and phone number verification is mandatory.
You also have to trade that amount of money in order to allow the broker to win effectively more than the 25 euros they gave you in order to be able to withdraw it, which is unlikely that anyone is able to withdraw it without making a deposit or being lucky.
Is there a catch in the 25 euros bonus with no deposit requirement?
you have to register personal details and phone number verification is mandatory.
And they take the other side of the bet in case there is no other customer taking the opposite bet, correct?
Do they hedge against the market going the wrong way somehow if things become too unbalanced in their books?
I'd really like to know how such a shop works. Is it like satoshidice?
Do they hedge against the market going the wrong way somehow if things become too unbalanced in their books?
I'd really like to know how such a shop works. Is it like satoshidice?
Last time I interviewed with one of the CFD brokers (which is a while back) they had human traders that would run a book. The trader would decide if the book should be rather long or short and profit from that.
In essence, they do the same thing as you guys trading bitcoins - but they try to make the 1% spread as well. They just need to "convince" people (by moving the price) to buy/sell them at the wrong time. The 20%/year financing fee is just the icing on top. Financing is usually free intraday...
You pay 113.79 and can sell at 112.76. I wonder how this is going to work out for them as most of the people I have talked to have bought through them, not going to be easy for them to keep a balanced book.
Ah, I was wondering how they manage to offer shorts on BTC. Now I know!
(FYI: they can simply loan the customers BTC to the shorters. Smart move by them. Building up the BTC position is a one time thing.)
The real question is: what happens if everybody wants to short BTC on Plus500???
hm? as I understand it there are no BTC involved at all. No BTC are borrowed or sold on mtgox. It's just CFD (contract for difference), basically a betting site.
Where do you see a daily fee? Premium time?
Yes. http://www.plus500.com/Help/HelpFees.aspx#nightpremuim 
Be warned. They do their money with heavy advertising attracting newcomers with no idea about what they are doing while amazed about their trading "limits". Very sophisticated system eats your money very easily.
You also need 60 traders points.
Is there a catch in the 25 euros bonus with no deposit requirement?
You need to identify yourself and receive a letter from them with a verification code
Is there a catch in the 25 euros bonus with no deposit requirement?
And they take the other side of the bet in case there is no other customer taking the opposite bet, correct?
Do they hedge against the market going the wrong way somehow if things become too unbalanced in their books?
I'd really like to know how such a shop works. Is it like satoshidice?
Do they hedge against the market going the wrong way somehow if things become too unbalanced in their books?
I'd really like to know how such a shop works. Is it like satoshidice?
Last time I interviewed with one of the CFD brokers (which is a while back) they had human traders that would run a book. The trader would decide if the book should be rather long or short and profit from that.
In essence, they do the same thing as you guys trading bitcoins - but they try to make the 1% spread as well. They just need to "convince" people (by moving the price) to buy/sell them at the wrong time. The 20%/year financing fee is just the icing on top. Financing is usually free intraday...
You pay 113.79 and can sell at 112.76. I wonder how this is going to work out for them as most of the people I have talked to have bought through them, not going to be easy for them to keep a balanced book.
Ah, I was wondering how they manage to offer shorts on BTC. Now I know!
(FYI: they can simply loan the customers BTC to the shorters. Smart move by them. Building up the BTC position is a one time thing.)
The real question is: what happens if everybody wants to short BTC on Plus500???
Since I am wildly bullish on bitcoin and do not expect it to drop in half, is it reasonable to load money on this site, buy at 2:1 leverage, and then leave it? What are the downsides compared to just holding coins myself at 1:1?
You'll have to pay a 0.05% daily fee (~20%/year) for holding the position.
I think this is pretty huge. Plus500 is a pretty large and solid site. They even run a lot of TV ads here in Norway. You get 4:1 leverage, meaning if you deposit 200 you can trade with 800, and you can also short. Best part is they accept credit card deposits so it is probably the easiest way to get into Bitcoins for a lot of people even though its only "paper Bitcoin". Unfortunately they do not accept US customers.
Sound interesting, i'll take a look.
Since I am wildly bullish on bitcoin and do not expect it to drop in half, is it reasonable to load money on this site, buy at 2:1 leverage, and then leave it? What are the downsides compared to just holding coins myself at 1:1?
You'll have to pay a 0.05% daily fee (~20%/year) for holding the position.I thought there would be a catch. Thanks for identifying it.
Since I am wildly bullish on bitcoin and do not expect it to drop in half, is it reasonable to load money on this site, buy at 2:1 leverage, and then leave it? What are the downsides compared to just holding coins myself at 1:1?
You'll have to pay a 0.05% daily fee (~20%/year) for holding the position. That spread doesn't seem -that- bad. It's not as competitive as elsewhere but I don't understand why people are talking about 10 percent.
I'm in for an account.
Don't forget, bitfinex offers leveraged trading as well.
I'm in for an account.
Don't forget, bitfinex offers leveraged trading as well.
As opposed to plus500 bitfinex is not a bucketshop. Bitfinex actually trades the underlying asset when you open a position.
plus500 is a bucketshop, right?
Quote
As defined by the U.S. Supreme Court a bucket shop is "[a]n establishment, nominally for the transaction of a stock exchange business, or business of similar character, but really for the registration of bets, or wagers, usually for small amounts, on the rise or fall of the prices of stocks, grain, oil, etc., there being no transfer or delivery of the stock or commodities nominally dealt in."
And they take the other side of the bet in case there is no other customer taking the opposite bet, correct?
Do they hedge against the market going the wrong way somehow if things become too unbalanced in their books?
I'd really like to know how such a shop works. Is it like satoshidice?
No idea if they hedge their book...
That spread doesn't seem -that- bad. It's not as competitive as elsewhere but I don't understand why people are talking about 10 percent.
I'm in for an account.
Don't forget, bitfinex offers leveraged trading as well.
I'm in for an account.
Don't forget, bitfinex offers leveraged trading as well.
As opposed to plus500 bitfinex is not a bucketshop. Bitfinex actually trades the underlying asset when you open a position.
plus500 is a bucketshop, right?
Quote
As defined by the U.S. Supreme Court a bucket shop is "[a]n establishment, nominally for the transaction of a stock exchange business, or business of similar character, but really for the registration of bets, or wagers, usually for small amounts, on the rise or fall of the prices of stocks, grain, oil, etc., there being no transfer or delivery of the stock or commodities nominally dealt in."
And they take the other side of the bet in case there is no other customer taking the opposite bet, correct?
Do they hedge against the market going the wrong way somehow if things become too unbalanced in their books?
I'd really like to know how such a shop works. Is it like satoshidice?
There are a bunch of negative reviews of plus500, but I have a feeling it is just idiots who aren't following the rules. I found an email interview they gave that was interesting. It says they have over 1 million users!
http://hatemostpeople.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/plus500-scam-real-interview-focused-on.html
http://hatemostpeople.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/plus500-scam-real-interview-focused-on.html
Ya,its review is poor on forex peace army.
http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/public/review/www.plus500.com
I think its not a registered brokerage firm
Notice of cyprus govt.
Simply incredible
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