Forget Grexit. BREXIT is the Bigger Threat to Europe.

dealeris

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Quote from: LuckyYOU on February 29, 2016, 06:13:33 PM

Well fact is some countries take much more, Lithuania one of them.
Uk stepping out of the Union would mean the rich EU countries will have a heavier burden. I don't think they will accept that, knowing they already are doing more in the refugee problem.
Let's hope these countries will force the poor countries to donate more or help out more. It's a democracy right?

Your explanation and solution is similar to signing a bank loan contract and as soon as the bank feels insecure or gets in a bad situation you start repaying your loan with much bigger payments than agreed upon.
Joining the EU is a contract - you know the terms prior to signing it. If you do not like how everything is developing go ahead and break it, but do not blame the ones who honor their signed contracts.

LuckyYOU

sr. member

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Quote from: dealeris on February 29, 2016, 07:29:29 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 28, 2016, 12:34:56 PM

I don't think so. The United Kingdom is one of the donor nations within the EU, and they help to subsidize the poorer nations such as Poland and Lithuania. If the Brexit occurs for real, then the pressure on the other donor nations (such as Germany, Netherlands, and France) will increase significantly. They are already under a lot of strain as a result of the Greek bailout.

Not sure why you mentioned Lithuania as "poorer". At 2016 index of economic freedom Lithuania ranks 13th in the world and 6th in Europe http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

This country has received from the EU 10765 million over what it has contributed(small amount comparing to many other EU countries), for example:

Poland - got 74296 million over what it has contributed
Portugal - got 63579 million over what it has contributed
Spain - got 91463 million over what it has contributed
Greece - got 109258 million over what it has contributed
More stats can be found: http://www.money-go-round.eu/

Well fact is some countries take much more, Lithuania one of them.
Uk stepping out of the Union would mean the rich EU countries will have a heavier burden. I don't think they will accept that, knowing they already are doing more in the refugee problem.
Let's hope these countries will force the poor countries to donate more or help out more. It's a democracy right?

tyz

legendary

Activity: 3346

Merit: 1530

...and it is not democratic at all. It is time to found a new more decentralized union were collaboration is focused on economical and juridical issues. And not focused on things like the maximal curvature of bananas or cucumbers. Let it called EDU, European Democratic Union.

Quote from: Newmba on February 29, 2016, 07:01:10 AM

the European Union is not going to last, someone feels like it has become a political entity and it's better to break out

it's just a matter of time, so I hope the UK will just do it and protect itself from future geopolitical developments in that region

dealeris

newbie

Activity: 74

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 28, 2016, 12:34:56 PM

I don't think so. The United Kingdom is one of the donor nations within the EU, and they help to subsidize the poorer nations such as Poland and Lithuania. If the Brexit occurs for real, then the pressure on the other donor nations (such as Germany, Netherlands, and France) will increase significantly. They are already under a lot of strain as a result of the Greek bailout.

Not sure why you mentioned Lithuania as "poorer". At 2016 index of economic freedom Lithuania ranks 13th in the world and 6th in Europe http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

This country has received from the EU 10765 million over what it has contributed(small amount comparing to many other EU countries), for example:

Poland - got 74296 million over what it has contributed
Portugal - got 63579 million over what it has contributed
Spain - got 91463 million over what it has contributed
Greece - got 109258 million over what it has contributed
More stats can be found: http://www.money-go-round.eu/

Newmba

newbie

Activity: 57

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the European Union is not going to last, someone feels like it has become a political entity and it's better to break out

it's just a matter of time, so I hope the UK will just do it and protect itself from future geopolitical developments in that region

phreaky

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 28, 2016, 12:34:56 PM

Quote from: European Central Bank on February 28, 2016, 09:17:38 AM

Maybe the rest of the EU will breathe a sigh of relief when the UK's gone. By the sounds of it all they do is moan and bitch anyway.

I don't think so. The United Kingdom is one of the donor nations within the EU, and they help to subsidize the poorer nations such as Poland and Lithuania. If the Brexit occurs for real, then the pressure on the other donor nations (such as Germany, Netherlands, and France) will increase significantly. They are already under a lot of strain as a result of the Greek bailout.

Yeah the rich northern countries will have to pay more. Even worse is that they are already doing most of it.
Donations; refugee problem etc.

Perhaps they will use it to grow their influence in the Union.

bryant.coleman

legendary

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Quote from: European Central Bank on February 28, 2016, 09:17:38 AM

Maybe the rest of the EU will breathe a sigh of relief when the UK's gone. By the sounds of it all they do is moan and bitch anyway.

I don't think so. The United Kingdom is one of the donor nations within the EU, and they help to subsidize the poorer nations such as Poland and Lithuania. If the Brexit occurs for real, then the pressure on the other donor nations (such as Germany, Netherlands, and France) will increase significantly. They are already under a lot of strain as a result of the Greek bailout.

jt byte

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Quote from: European Central Bank on February 28, 2016, 09:17:38 AM

Maybe the rest of the EU will breathe a sigh of relief when the UK's gone. By the sounds of it all they do is moan and bitch anyway.

They got some legit concern. Especially the huge amount of immigrants from poland is causing great problems.
Apart they are alcholist, uncivilized they cause social tention too.

Sure it's in the best of the UK to stay, but if the rules they want got implemented the rest of the EU would benefit too.

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: European Central Bank on February 28, 2016, 09:17:38 AM

Maybe the rest of the EU will breathe a sigh of relief when the UK's gone. By the sounds of it all they do is moan and bitch anyway.

Germany won't be happy if the UK leaves. The UK wants to reduce it's deficit, wants to be globally competitive and is a big net contributor to the EU.
If they leave, Germany will have to pay more to cover the ever increasing number of poorer countries who are members or will be members.

If the UK leaves, I think other countries will consider doing the same thing. The EU would be better if they hadn't expanded in the last 15 years, it isn't a fair union anymore.

European Central Bank

legendary

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Maybe the rest of the EU will breathe a sigh of relief when the UK's gone. By the sounds of it all they do is moan and bitch anyway.

tyz

legendary

Activity: 3346

Merit: 1530

Agree with you! UK will get bigger problems than the EU when it is going to leave the union.
Many banks residing in London will move their operations into the EU. It will definitely have a good effect for cities like Dublin, Paris and Frankfurt which are further considerable financial spots in Europe.

Quote from: Carlsen on February 23, 2016, 03:54:57 PM

Uk will leave after the vote in june. British people see themselves as British people, not as Europeans. Can't blame them there.
I see bigger problems for UK than I see for the rest of the Eu, if that happenes.
Brexit can't be compared to grexit cause UK has not the € as fiat.

Kelarid

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Quote from: minor-transgression on February 25, 2016, 04:23:30 PM

Back in the 1980's when North Sea Oil was booming, the UK contributed ~£2Bn per year
to subsidise French farmers, Irish roads, and Italian corruption. That greased many wheels
within Europe, but these things do not last. North Sea oil and gas moved the UK from
being the sick man of Europe to the world's fifth largest economy. Today it is 50:50 but
the memory remains.

Today, Germany wants Frankfurt as the financial centre of an European superstate, and that
is frequently at odds with what, specifically, the City of London wants.

The other players in the game are the UK landowners - they want Shengen extended because
more immigrants means more rent, and more income to them. Farmers and fishers want out
because they lost out when the UK went into the EC, supposedly to favor British industry.
Recently, big chunks of British industry were bought by foreign investors, hence there is no
broad support for staying in from that quarter.

And finally, having seen the politics and the financial games playing out in Greece, and in
Ireland, staying in the EU will be a hard sell to any sane Brit. There is no way the ECB
will look favorably on post-2008 bailouts of British Banks.

That is the good description of the past. I got the impression that the UK government is encouraging the blockchain technology. This may make UK strong again.

minor-transgression

sr. member

Activity: 268

Merit: 256

Back in the 1980's when North Sea Oil was booming, the UK contributed ~£2Bn per year
to subsidise French farmers, Irish roads, and Italian corruption. That greased many wheels
within Europe, but these things do not last. North Sea oil and gas moved the UK from
being the sick man of Europe to the world's fifth largest economy. Today it is 50:50 but
the memory remains.

Today, Germany wants Frankfurt as the financial centre of an European superstate, and that
is frequently at odds with what, specifically, the City of London wants.

The other players in the game are the UK landowners - they want Shengen extended because
more immigrants means more rent, and more income to them. Farmers and fishers want out
because they lost out when the UK went into the EC, supposedly to favor British industry.
Recently, big chunks of British industry were bought by foreign investors, hence there is no
broad support for staying in from that quarter.

And finally, having seen the politics and the financial games playing out in Greece, and in
Ireland, staying in the EU will be a hard sell to any sane Brit. There is no way the ECB
will look favorably on post-2008 bailouts of British Banks.

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 1217

Quote from: HarryKPeters on February 24, 2016, 04:14:28 AM

The UK won't leaven the EU. It would harm the EU, but it would harm the UK more.
They will get isolated.

Nothing will happen to the United Kingdom. They will do just fine. If you have any doubt, then look at Switzerland and Norway. These two countries are not part of the EU, and still they are doing really good. On the other hand, the EU will be severely handicapped. Without the funding from the UK, they will be forced to cut back their welfare programs.

markj113

legendary

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Quote from: HarryKPeters on February 24, 2016, 04:14:28 AM

Quote from: markj113 on February 24, 2016, 03:48:31 AM

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on February 24, 2016, 03:20:37 AM

The British uses Pound and European uses EUR. British can learn from US to implement QE to "save" the economy, but not Greece... There is no harm for UK to stay in EU.

The UK has already implemented QE.

The UK staying in Europe is a cost and not a benefit for us, strange how all these Europeans posting think its a great idea for us to stay. Probably because its only the UK, Germany and France that pay in while the rest are on the take.

The UK won't leaven the EU. It would harm the EU, but it would harm the UK more.
They will get isolated.

And even worse, I am sure ireland/Scotland etc. will still want to be included in the EU since their economy depend on it.
Don't forget big US firms will instantly leave the UK countries if their are no financial benefits for them.

Scaremongering at is finest.

So you are suggesting that if the UK left Europe then trade would suddenly stop.

I dont think so, the UK is also a large importer from Europe so if these countries want to sell us the goods they must also allow us to export our goods to their country.

HarryKPeters

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Quote from: markj113 on February 24, 2016, 03:48:31 AM

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on February 24, 2016, 03:20:37 AM

The British uses Pound and European uses EUR. British can learn from US to implement QE to "save" the economy, but not Greece... There is no harm for UK to stay in EU.

The UK has already implemented QE.

The UK staying in Europe is a cost and not a benefit for us, strange how all these Europeans posting think its a great idea for us to stay. Probably because its only the UK, Germany and France that pay in while the rest are on the take.

The UK won't leaven the EU. It would harm the EU, but it would harm the UK more.
They will get isolated.

And even worse, I am sure ireland/Scotland etc. will still want to be included in the EU since their economy depend on it.
Don't forget big US firms will instantly leave the UK countries if their are no financial benefits for them.

markj113

legendary

Activity: 2254

Merit: 1043

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on February 24, 2016, 03:20:37 AM

The British uses Pound and European uses EUR. British can learn from US to implement QE to "save" the economy, but not Greece... There is no harm for UK to stay in EU.

The UK has already implemented QE.

The UK staying in Europe is a cost and not a benefit for us, strange how all these Europeans posting think its a great idea for us to stay. Probably because its only the UK, Germany and France that pay in while the rest are on the take.

7788bitcoin

legendary

Activity: 2282

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The British uses Pound and European uses EUR. British can learn from US to implement QE to "save" the economy, but not Greece... There is no harm for UK to stay in EU.

Karartma1

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Merit: 1422

Quote from: NorrisK on February 23, 2016, 03:26:37 AM

Quote from: Karartma1 on February 23, 2016, 03:10:40 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 23, 2016, 03:03:06 AM

The Brexit is very unlikely. The British are generally not in favor of changing the status quo. So I assume that most of the people who give out their opinion as "Undecided" in the opinion poll will vote against Brexit during the referendum. However, if the Brexit actually occurs, then it will negatively affect the EU in a big way.

What you say is true but most of the Brits don't care aboute Europe: they drive on the left side, they have sterlings instead of euro and so on.
If they are out that's Europe's problems not theirs.

Because it would be a smart thing to change the traditional side you drive on based on joining a union? That is something completely unrelated.

Also, they are not the only country in the EU that held their own currency in favor of the euro.

If they go out it is for sure a big problem for Europe, but also for the Brits. Imagine the impact on their economy. No more easy traveling there for EU citizins. No more tax free shipping, etc. It would severly impact their export and tourism and they can't handle that.

I have been in the UK long enough to understand that they don't need Europe at all: it is the other way round. And trust me they are really proud of their differences!

Pab

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Yes it is much bigger,now the most popular english politicks,London governer has has joined Brexit coalition
If i will be british i will vote exit,but Trump like a president that is huge

Topic: Forget Grexit. BREXIT is the Bigger Threat to Europe. (Read 1768 times)