Topic: Forget the real application, the real value of Bitcoin is investment (Read 1480 times)

Quote from: BIT-Sharon on May 04, 2015, 09:52:15 PM

The only question I have is why would a person jump through hoops to buy bitcoin so he can buy something from a merchant when he already had the ability to do that beforehand without taking the additional and complicated step? This is the roadblock to your suggestion.

It's only a perceived hindrance because there isn't an end-to-end system of Bitcoin being actively used at the moment for anything other than maybe some developers and miners that "get paid" in it. With more adoption and people getting paid in it, it will make sense in the respect that you're talking about.

Right now, however, there are early adopters who could live off their Bitcoin entirely, and some in fact do so. It may take years for folks today to see a significant return on their "investment" in Bitcoin compared to the early adopters who may now live off their coin entirely, but once this happens for the accumulators today, they will also want goods and services, so there will always be merchants adding support for it.

In the past, economies based on gold and silver had coinage, but because of the weight, it didn't make sense to carry your entire "gross worth" on you or in your pocket. Bitcoin solves that problem by being a virtual commodity. It certainly turned the tables on fiat, at least, and will continue to do so. There are always going to be people that want a currency that holds value even after the government that represents it dies.

minerpumpkin

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Bitcoin can be a great investment. It totally depends what you expect form an investment: Do you want thick fat returns or do you want your money to be save, preferably even from global financial or political crisis? Right now it's still more an investment of the first kind, people expect it to grow and invest because they want big returns. If the adoption has gone up and the mining rewards down, Bitcoin doesn't need new money entering the system. It's purely a good storage of wealth then.

Q7

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If there is no application then I suppose the term investment wouldn't mean anything in the first place. I don't know. I just think people wouldn't just be putting their money into something which they think has no real application. Gold was different because it was unique and throughout history of mankind we have seen and perceive gold as valuable and thus we maintain that thinking until today. But for bitcoin it's slightly different scenario. We need two of these to go along together.

MUFC

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Bitcoin may become the real global currency and replace central bank of all the other countries when it develops to some position. As a payment system, it may replace of Visa and Mastercard after the value of Bitcoin is stable. As a kind of foreign exchange method, Bitcoin may replace of Western Union Company. Forget the usage of Bitcoin, we assume that there is no use for Bitcoin but just a kind of scarce electrical commodity with private property right, then calculated by the market value of gold, the market value of Bitcoin should be in the scale of thousand billion, that is, Bitcoin can finish rising of 100 times just as the method of storage. In the view of Martian, that Bitcoin appears on the market in ETE may be the foundation of next 100 times' rising. It must be an extraordinary year for Bitcoin in 2015, let us wait and see what happens.

Bitcoin is never going to replace things like central banks. Hey, don't get me wrong I would love for nothing more than to get rid of them but it just wont happen. Call me cynical but nothing ever changes when it comes to politics and economy because the corrupt few wont let the power slip away and they can buy anything they want with their current wealth and you sadly can't fuck with that sort of power. Best we can hope for is a shake up of the system or bitcoin's use growing as an alternative system that we can use outside of the mainstream.

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Quote from: Amph on May 05, 2015, 05:24:48 AM

Quote from: shulio on May 05, 2015, 05:14:32 AM

Quote from: Amph on May 05, 2015, 04:54:04 AM

Quote from: shulio on May 05, 2015, 05:14:32 AM

as long as bitcoin is tied to fiat, it will be seen always as an investment, and thus not really a real currency, adoption should pull out slowly bitcoin from any other assets, and "turn it" as a true currency

Your point doesnt make sense. Every currency is considered as investment as well. People in Asia are investing in USD but does this means that USD is not a currency? You should know that without getting tied to fiat , bitcoin doesnt have any value since it will be consider as a play money

bitcoin can have value without being tied to fiat, fiat is just needed to measure it, not to give it value, also the example with usd doesn't make sense, because usd was always considerer a currency even before the first investment, it was born as a currency, bitoin is born as investment because it has been seen only as instrument to being dumped for fiat, like i said above

wrong, bitcoin is born as a currency and that is the reason why satoshi created it, to be a decentralized currency. It will have no value if it isnt tied with fiat . Everything needs to be tied with fiat to have a value. Otherwise it will not be said that it has a value

i know that for us and satoshi is considered currency, but what i'm saying is that for many other bitcoin is born as a investment, they need it, only to gain more usd(more fiat money)

and bitcoin does not need any fiat to have value, you can determinate its value with barter, it just need time so people can adapt to it again, the same was done long time ago, when currency weren't present

Yes and because it is a currency . People always want more USD and that is nothing wrong with that.
It was done long ago yes and there is no reason to head back to the past because bitcoin is a technology for the future, it is meant to live side by side with fiat alltogether and it nees to be linked in fiat

Amph

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Quote from: Amph on May 05, 2015, 04:54:04 AM

Quote from: Amph on May 05, 2015, 04:54:04 AM

as long as bitcoin is tied to fiat, it will be seen always as an investment, and thus not really a real currency, adoption should pull out slowly bitcoin from any other assets, and "turn it" as a true currency

Your point doesnt make sense. Every currency is considered as investment as well. People in Asia are investing in USD but does this means that USD is not a currency? You should know that without getting tied to fiat , bitcoin doesnt have any value since it will be consider as a play money

bitcoin can have value without being tied to fiat, fiat is just needed to measure it, not to give it value, also the example with usd doesn't make sense, because usd was always considerer a currency even before the first investment, it was born as a currency, bitoin is born as investment because it has been seen only as instrument to being dumped for fiat, like i said above

wrong, bitcoin is born as a currency and that is the reason why satoshi created it, to be a decentralized currency. It will have no value if it isnt tied with fiat . Everything needs to be tied with fiat to have a value. Otherwise it will not be said that it has a value

i know that for us and satoshi is considered currency, but what i'm saying is that for many other bitcoin is born as a investment, they need it, only to gain more usd(more fiat money)

and bitcoin does not need any fiat to have value, you can determinate its value with barter, it just need time so people can adapt to it again, the same was done long time ago, when currency weren't present

shulio

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Quote from: kelsey on May 05, 2015, 02:34:00 AM

as long as bitcoin is tied to fiat, it will be seen always as an investment, and thus not really a real currency, adoption should pull out slowly bitcoin from any other assets, and "turn it" as a true currency

Your point doesnt make sense. Every currency is considered as investment as well. People in Asia are investing in USD but does this means that USD is not a currency? You should know that without getting tied to fiat , bitcoin doesnt have any value since it will be consider as a play money

bitcoin can have value without being tied to fiat, fiat is just needed to measure it, not to give it value, also the example with usd doesn't make sense, because usd was always considerer a currency even before the first investment, it was born as a currency, bitoin is born as investment because it has been seen only as instrument to being dumped for fiat, like i said above

wrong, bitcoin is born as a currency and that is the reason why satoshi created it, to be a decentralized currency. It will have no value if it isnt tied with fiat . Everything needs to be tied with fiat to have a value. Otherwise it will not be said that it has a value

Amph

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Quote from: R2D221 on May 04, 2015, 11:26:11 PM

Bitcoin was not designed to be an investment. It's like saying that I can invest in dollars (which I certainly can, but that's not what dollars are for).

as long as bitcoin is tied to fiat, it will be seen always as an investment, and thus not really a real currency, adoption should pull out slowly bitcoin from any other assets, and "turn it" as a true currency

why? most fiats are tied to each other, eg CAD tied to the USD, yet CAD is still a currency. not saying bitcoin is a currency just saying its not being tied to fiat that prevents it.

yeah ok but those are fiat in the first place, bitcoin isn't considered a fiat currency, it need to detach itself from it, otherwise it will be only seen as a instrument to be dumped for fiat, thus making it only an investment

Quote from: BIT-Sharon on May 04, 2015, 09:52:15 PM

as long as bitcoin is tied to fiat, it will be seen always as an investment, and thus not really a real currency, adoption should pull out slowly bitcoin from any other assets, and "turn it" as a true currency

Your point doesnt make sense. Every currency is considered as investment as well. People in Asia are investing in USD but does this means that USD is not a currency? You should know that without getting tied to fiat , bitcoin doesnt have any value since it will be consider as a play money

bitcoin can have value without being tied to fiat, fiat is just needed to measure it, not to give it value, also the example with usd doesn't make sense, because usd was always considerer a currency even before the first investment, it was born as a currency, bitoin is born as investment because it has been seen only as instrument to being dumped for fiat, like i said above

H.W.Z

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If the real value of Bitcoin is investment, Bitcoin tends to be traded by the speculators and have no real applications. The price is easily manipulated and will be volatile. It will be crashed on day.

Agestorzrxx

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Bitcoin may become the real global currency and replace central bank of all the other countries when it develops to some position. As a payment system, it may replace of Visa and Mastercard after the value of Bitcoin is stable. As a kind of foreign exchange method, Bitcoin may replace of Western Union Company. Forget the usage of Bitcoin, we assume that there is no use for Bitcoin but just a kind of scarce electrical commodity with private property right, then calculated by the market value of gold, the market value of Bitcoin should be in the scale of thousand billion, that is, Bitcoin can finish rising of 100 times just as the method of storage. In the view of Martian, that Bitcoin appears on the market in ETE may be the foundation of next 100 times' rising. It must be an extraordinary year for Bitcoin in 2015, let us wait and see what happens.

Very interest point, i read some similar comment before. But i can't agree them all. Bitcoin is not just a currency, it's a platform also.

shulio

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Quote from: medUSA on May 05, 2015, 02:39:33 AM

as long as bitcoin is tied to fiat, it will be seen always as an investment, and thus not really a real currency, adoption should pull out slowly bitcoin from any other assets, and "turn it" as a true currency

Your point doesnt make sense. Every currency is considered as investment as well. People in Asia are investing in USD but does this means that USD is not a currency? You should know that without getting tied to fiat , bitcoin doesnt have any value since it will be consider as a play money

kelsey

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The only question I have is why would a person jump through hoops to buy bitcoin so he can buy something from a merchant when he already had the ability to do that beforehand without taking the additional and complicated step? This is the roadblock to your suggestion.

You are thinking about this shopping scenario the opposite way. Let's say you have little something to sell. Think about the hoops you need to jump through and the fees you pay to receive a small amount of a foreign currency Wink

then instead of all the bs time money and energy thats been wasted on bitcoin, why not simply create a free currency exchange for micro transactions Shocked

medUSA

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The only question I have is why would a person jump through hoops to buy bitcoin so he can buy something from a merchant when he already had the ability to do that beforehand without taking the additional and complicated step? This is the roadblock to your suggestion.

You are thinking about this shopping scenario the opposite way. Let's say you have little something to sell. Think about the hoops you need to jump through and the fees you pay to receive a small amount of a foreign currency Wink

kelsey

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Quote from: R2D221 on May 04, 2015, 11:26:11 PM

Bitcoin was not designed to be an investment. It's like saying that I can invest in dollars (which I certainly can, but that's not what dollars are for).

as long as bitcoin is tied to fiat, it will be seen always as an investment, and thus not really a real currency, adoption should pull out slowly bitcoin from any other assets, and "turn it" as a true currency

why? most fiats are tied to each other, eg CAD tied to the USD, yet CAD is still a currency. not saying bitcoin is a currency just saying its not being tied to fiat that prevents it.

Amph

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Quote from: R2D221 on May 04, 2015, 11:26:11 PM

Bitcoin was not designed to be an investment. It's like saying that I can invest in dollars (which I certainly can, but that's not what dollars are for).

as long as bitcoin is tied to fiat, it will be seen always as an investment, and thus not really a real currency, adoption should pull out slowly bitcoin from any other assets, and "turn it" as a true currency

louise123

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Quote from: BIT-Sharon on May 04, 2015, 09:52:15 PM

Bitcoin may become the real global currency and replace central bank of all the other countries when it develops to some position. As a payment system, it may replace of Visa and Mastercard after the value of Bitcoin is stable.

The only question I have is why would a person jump through hoops to buy bitcoin so he can buy something from a merchant when he already had the ability to do that beforehand without taking the additional and complicated step? This is the roadblock to your suggestion.

I think it would be great if Satoshi would resurface and answer this question.

I will give you a reason that I relate to personally.

My country's currency is Euro.
Now, I wish to purchase something in USD or GBP.
I check the exchange rate for that currency and add a 3% commision from my bank.
I know that this is how much it's going to cost me.

I place my order, pay with VISA.
Order goes through, money withdrawn on let's say May 1.
A few days later (2-3) the transaction is changed by the bank and says the payment went through on 4 May -
which is a date that GBP exchange rate VS EUR is higher and MOST TIMES lower.
(The funny thing is that instead of returning the difference they charged me more - Huh

)
But wait, I didn't buy the product on the 4th, I bought it on the 1st,
that's what my cash invoice says.

Bank Response: It depends on when the merchant claims his money.
Me: Do you know of many merchants that don't want their money BEFORE they ship a product to someone they don't know?
Bank Response: Sorry, can't help you, that's how it's done.....

gongomanny

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I thinkk Ripple has more real world applications than bitcoin. It's like taking the current financial system and bitcoin and weaving them together.

Kprawn

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