Fork and Destroy Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin? - page 3.

DooMAD

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Quote from: deisik on April 22, 2019, 04:19:44 AM

Basically, you say that it is morally reprehensible in your eyes while still trying to make it look like it is a bad thing in general.

Theft is normally considered a bad thing in general, yes. I wasn't aware we were debating that. You can create a fork to deprive people of their coins if you want, but I'm going to take the personal view that you're a bad person if you do it. What part of that wasn't clear?

deisik

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Quote from: DooMAD on April 22, 2019, 04:07:22 AM

But I suspect their chain won't be very popular

That's a completely different matter

Technically, you can consider anything "morally reprehensible", at least as long as we stick to the opinion that morality is an entirely personal issue. But in that case we can't actually claim that something is moral while something else is not as it is only a matter of personal preference. To put it simple, you are now trying to twist your reasoning in such a way that it wouldn't look too inconsequential

Basically, you say that it is morally reprehensible in your eyes while still trying to make it look like it is a bad thing in general. To sum it up, if we assume that anyone has the right to fork, we should as well assume that they also have the right to do with the fork whatever they choose and that cannot be judged or argued from a moral standpoint

DooMAD

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Quote from: deisik on April 22, 2019, 04:01:15 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on April 22, 2019, 03:55:03 AM

From a moral standpoint, I can't help but think some people are looking at this from the wrong angle. I get why people want to defend satoshi because "they're the founder/creator", or "it's disrespectful" or "because of everything they've done for Bitcoin", etc, but the same should apply to absolutely anyone. Theft is theft and that's what the OP is advocating. Even if there was someone really terrible who tried to do bad things to Bitcoin, it would still be wrong to for anyone to say we should fork and destroy their coins. Two wrongs don't make a right

Fork versus destroy are two different things if you ask me

And while I certainly agree that stripping someone of his legitimately obtained coins is an outrage in and of itself, this is not the same as forking as it would be as outrageous to forbid someone to fork Bitcoin (even if it were technically possible). So, in a sense, a fork is a workaround for the moral issues your raise in your post. Therefore, if someone did actually try to do something nasty to Bitcoin (say, Satoshi himself, for whatever reason), it would be a right and legit thing to do according to your own considerations as everyone is free to do anything with their fork

Don't get me wrong, anyone has the right to create that fork, but I have to right to call it morally reprehensible. The people on that chain would be immoral hypocrites in my eyes. They would believe their property rights should be respected when they disrespect the rights of others. If that's what they want to do, they're perfectly free to. But I suspect their chain won't be very popular.

deisik

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Quote from: DooMAD on April 22, 2019, 03:55:03 AM

From a moral standpoint, I can't help but think some people are looking at this from the wrong angle. I get why people want to defend satoshi because "they're the founder/creator", or "it's disrespectful" or "because of everything they've done for Bitcoin", etc, but the same should apply to absolutely anyone. Theft is theft and that's what the OP is advocating. Even if there was someone really terrible who tried to do bad things to Bitcoin, it would still be wrong to for anyone to say we should fork and destroy their coins. Two wrongs don't make a right

Fork versus destroy are two different things if you ask me

And while I certainly agree that stripping someone of his legitimately obtained coins is an outrage in and of itself, this is not the same as forking as it would be as outrageous to forbid someone to fork Bitcoin (even if it were technically possible). So, in a sense, a fork is a workaround for the moral issues your raise in your post

Therefore, if someone did actually try to do something nasty to Bitcoin (say, Satoshi himself, for whatever reason), it would be a right and legit thing to do according to your own considerations as everyone is free to do anything with their fork (including destroying someone's coins)

DooMAD

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From a moral standpoint, I can't help but think some people are looking at this from the wrong angle. I get why people want to defend satoshi because "they're the founder/creator", or "it's disrespectful" or "because of everything they've done for Bitcoin", etc, but the same should apply to absolutely anyone. Theft is theft and that's what the OP is advocating. Even if there was someone really terrible who tried to do bad things to Bitcoin, it would still be wrong to for anyone to say we should fork and destroy their coins. Two wrongs don't make a right.

To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty Ownership Rights, to purchase a little temporary Safety Market Stability, deserve neither Liberty Ownership Rights nor Safety Market Stability."

severaldetails

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Quote from: CoinEraser on April 22, 2019, 02:50:38 AM

Quote from: Ucy on April 13, 2019, 05:53:19 AM

Bitcoin should be forked and Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin destroyed completely, if he really owns that much.
A sudden withdrawal of of 1 million (or large gradual withdrawals) should be regarded as an attack on Bitcoin.

Or it should be frozen for now until developers are sure no one is going to withdraw the whole thing and crash the market.

This is a very bad idea and would destroy the trust in Bitcoin. If you start forking coins out of the network, that would be the beginning of the end. Nobody has the right to decide at Bitcoin which coins are ok and which are not. Once the coins from Satoshi have been foked away, which coins will follow? Yours, mine or which ones? And who will decide that? As you can see, such a move would destroy the credibility of a decentralized currency. Even though Satoshi's coins seem like a threat, they're not. Wink

I see it the same way. Messing with the blockchain is the end of bitcoin. This is exactly what Satoshi wanted to prevent when he started bitcoin: a system where the flow of money is regulated. The only reason why forks should happen is to improve the programming, not to tell who can own what.

CoinEraser

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Quote from: Ucy on April 13, 2019, 05:53:19 AM

Bitcoin should be forked and Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin destroyed completely, if he really owns that much.
A sudden withdrawal of of 1 million (or large gradual withdrawals) should be regarded as an attack on Bitcoin.

Or it should be frozen for now until developers are sure no one is going to withdraw the whole thing and crash the market.

This is a very bad idea and would destroy the trust in Bitcoin. If you start forking coins out of the network, that would be the beginning of the end. Nobody has the right to decide at Bitcoin which coins are ok and which are not. Once the coins from Satoshi have been foked away, which coins will follow? Yours, mine or which ones? And who will decide that? As you can see, such a move would destroy the credibility of a decentralized currency. Even though Satoshi's coins seem like a threat, they're not. Wink

joshy23

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Quote from: Ucy on April 13, 2019, 05:53:19 AM

Bitcoin should be forked and Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin destroyed completely, if he really owns that much.
A sudden withdrawal of of 1 million (or large gradual withdrawals) should be regarded as an attack on Bitcoin.

Or it should be frozen for now until developers are sure no one is going to withdraw the whole thing and crash the market.

What?you damn no respect for the founder and creator of bitcoin?after you earn from what the man/woman gaved you this is what you will give in return?how dare you man.Satoshis privilege for having that amount (if the person really does) is tolerable because of what he did,and Satoshi is not that stupid to withdraw the said 1million bitcoin straight forward when she knows what will be the effect to the creation she made.

Herbert2020

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Quote from: ?? on ??

i think its a good things to bitcoin, but as we know that its not easy as that, its hard to fork bitcoin and destroy 1 Million Bitcoin on satoshi wallet. we dont know who is satoshi. and we dont know anything about the bitcoin system when we want to destroy satoshis bitcoin

there is absolutely nothing good about this!
first of all you don't know and you have no way of knowing which coins actually belong to Satoshi so you would be guessing and destroying any coin of anybody who mined bitcoin in early days!
secondly you are not allowed to touch other people's bitcoins! doing that would defeat the whole purpose of bitcoin and turn it into a shitcoin right away.

shesheboy

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Quote from: ChrisPop on April 13, 2019, 02:54:46 PM

I don't think that Satoshi will ever sell his bitcoins for fiat currencies. He had a vision when he created Bitcoin and I don't think he's in a rush for money with his obvious intelligence.

Yes i agree on you and that is also what im thinking about . he creates bitcoin so why would he sell his own invention ? He knows selling it is a bad idea because the price can collapse dramatically and it can causes alot of panic to some however some will consider it a blessing because they can buy bitcoin at a verry low rates . other one is , why would satoshi nakoto sell his bitcoin for fiat when the main reason on why he create a bitcoin is because he is allergic to fiats .

deisik

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Quote from: ralle14 on April 14, 2019, 06:01:25 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

it should have had to be freezing so there would be no large withdrawal, because with such a withdrawal it would disrupt the condition or stability of the market and would cause a decrease in crypto prices.

Dumping 1 million BTC could cause a crash but the chances for Satoshi to come back just to dump his wallet is so small and if he does the market can always recover

And most importantly, with a vengeance

As is often the case, the waiting for an event is more frustrating than its outcome itself, so when the market eventually recovers from such a shock, it should recover with a surplus as these coins will no longer be a potential pain in the ass of many big-time investors. It will just open doors to future unimpeded growth

Further, if Satoshi (or whoever controls the keys from his coins) decides to sell them, he can easily sell the best part of them off the market, i.e. trade them over-the-counter via private connections with deep pockets. In this case, his sell-off won't affect the market very much and we will still have the burden of his stash off our backs

CryptoGamblingSites

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Quote from: Ucy on April 13, 2019, 05:53:19 AM

Bitcoin should be forked and Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin destroyed completely, if he really owns that much.
A sudden withdrawal of of 1 million (or large gradual withdrawals) should be regarded as an attack on Bitcoin.

Or it should be frozen for now until developers are sure no one is going to withdraw the whole thing and crash the market.

Terrible Idea that nobody needed a thread on.

If the 1million bitcoin didn't move at all when it was worth $20 billion, it is quite likely that it never moves as Satoshi left the project years ago.

Nobody would have started bitcoin with an endgame of earning more than $1 billion, that would be insane.

seoincorporation

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Quote from: Ucy on April 13, 2019, 05:53:19 AM

Bitcoin should be forked and Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin destroyed completely, if he really owns that much.
A sudden withdrawal of of 1 million (or large gradual withdrawals) should be regarded as an attack on Bitcoin.

Or it should be frozen for now until developers are sure no one is going to withdraw the whole thing and crash the market.

That will not happen, because if he moves those bitcoins his anonymity will instant disappear... So he could become instant rich but not for much time because police would take him to jail before he could even touch that money.

But maybe frozen those btcs is a smart move.

ChrisPop

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I don't think that Satoshi will ever sell his bitcoins for fiat currencies. He had a vision when he created Bitcoin and I don't think he's in a rush for money with his obvious intelligence. He might move Bitcoin around sometimes in the future just to pay for coffee. Moreover I don't think he will do that from his "original" addresses so he doesn't create panic.

ralle14

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Quote from: ?? on ??

it should have had to be freezing so there would be no large withdrawal, because with such a withdrawal it would disrupt the condition or stability of the market and would cause a decrease in crypto prices.

Dumping 1 million BTC could cause a crash but the chances for Satoshi to come back just to dump his wallet is so small and if he does the market can always recover.

If all of his BTC would be taken away there would be a hard fork and this isn't reasonable. Imagine if your BTC would be taken away because of the same reason.

veleten

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Quote from: Ucy on April 13, 2019, 05:53:19 AM

Bitcoin should be forked and Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin destroyed completely, if he really owns that much.
A sudden withdrawal of of 1 million (or large gradual withdrawals) should be regarded as an attack on Bitcoin.

Or it should be frozen for now until developers are sure no one is going to withdraw the whole thing and crash the market.

you are funny , lets fork and destroy your coins instead , would you like that?
and why withdrawing 1 mil coins is an attack on bitcoin? sounds like nonsense to me
even if withdrawing or transferring it or whatever he wishes to do with them is threatening anything
it is his coins and he can do with them what he pleases
besides I have a very strong feeling these coins are not going to move any time soon if at all

deisik

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Quote from: Ucy on April 13, 2019, 05:53:19 AM

Bitcoin should be forked and Satoshi's 1 million Bitcoin destroyed completely, if he really owns that much.
A sudden withdrawal of of 1 million (or large gradual withdrawals) should be regarded as an attack on Bitcoin

Obviously, you won't get consensus on this

And if you decide to just fork off, so to speak, thereby creating another shitcoin, people will continue to use the original Bitcoin. Other than that, it has already been done in the past, so you may want to learn about Litecoin which has exactly that done and doesn't have 1M coins premined to Satoshi Nakamoto (or Charli Lee, for that matter). If I'm not mistaken, even Bitcoin Cash with its subsequent forks didn't destroy Satoshi's coins

curr3ncytr4d3r

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That only makes sense if Nakamoto had bad intentions to begin with or suddenly is against the community where a dump would not be overcome. Otherwise let him enjoy his success.

mk4

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There is nothing bad in satoshi holding a million of the total supply of bitcoin. That’s like 1% of the supply.

It's actually around 4.76%. Sorry. Couldn't help it. Grin

Quote from: Malam90 on April 14, 2019, 05:26:56 AM

Quote from: mk4 on April 13, 2019, 06:02:28 AM

How is withdrawing 1 million BTC an "attack" on bitcoin? It's Satoshi's money. Let him do whatever he wants with his money. He can spend it all on blackjack and hookers and hell do I care how he wants to spend it.

Right, let him sleep in peace. Don't disturb him to say 'freeze his/her 1 Millions Bitcoin until he is active', it is Satoshi's money and he will decide when he will withdraw his money from the market. The last 10 years he is holding from an unknown source.

Pretty much. We don't even know if he's alive or dead. But regardless? Taking his funds just to increase the circulating supply is simply just wrong in a moral and ethical level.

Malam90

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Quote from: mk4 on April 13, 2019, 06:02:28 AM

Quote from: Ucy on April 13, 2019, 05:53:19 AM

A sudden withdrawal of of 1 million (or large gradual withdrawals) should be regarded as an attack on Bitcoin.

How is withdrawing 1 million BTC an "attack" on bitcoin? It's Satoshi's money. Let him do whatever he wants with his money. He can spend it all on blackjack and hookers and hell do I care how he wants to spend it.

Right, let him sleep in peace. Don't disturb him to say 'freeze his/her 1 Millions Bitcoin until he is active', it is Satoshi's money and he will decide when he will withdraw his money from the market. The last 10 years he is holding from an unknown source.

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