Topic: Fortunejack scam - not want pay 1455USDT (Read 258 times)

For lack of a better term, this is a sneaky move by FJ since it's unique. I did downgrade them from B+ to B-. At the same time, I can't support a flag. As far as this being a crime, that's debatable based on a definition of disposable phone. It can be a necessity when traveling. I hate their rule but it is their rule.

as you were already answered earlier - you do not have the right to apply this point of the rules to me, you yourself are violating your own rules!
Your rules are ambiguous. I am sure this clause was written with the aim of guaranteeing the enrichment of a dishonest casino! You could turn a blind eye to this if you simply closed the player’s account, but did not touch account balance. But you allow yourself to steal all the player’s winnings and write that the return of the deposit is the good will of the casino...

In this regard, I ask that a red flag be issued for Fortunejack Casino!!!!!!

  Right now the scammer continues to work and deceive new clients. Please note that it is not very easy to play at a casino. in the long run, people are doomed to lose. Therefore, the percentage of complaints against the company is always very small. And if you suddenly win at the very beginning, then the casino simply does not pay you and begins to look for a clause in the rules according to which you will be deprived of your winnings!

If the community refuses to openly write that Fortunejack is in fact a scammer, I ask you to give a red flag that Fortunejack is manipulating very strange, ambiguous rules in order not to pay winnings to clients!
You can see everything for yourself, the casino accepts bets and does not make any restrictions on the account until the first withdrawal of money!

Hey BitcoinTalk Community.


Since there has been a further discussion regarding this case, we decided to leave an additional comment on the thread.


As we mentioned in the previous comment, our fraud & security team identified the number that was used to verify the account as a disposable number, and since it is against our T&C, we had the right to confiscate all monetary funds available on the account, but as a goodwill gesture, OP was allowed to withdraw their entire deposit amount.


The OP has been able to successfully withdraw their deposit I believe



-ADante

I'm sorry if this seemed like pressure.
I can’t wrap my head around why a casino can afford not to pay while continuing to work and write new posts, so I wanted to get the approval of each member of the Bitcointalk community specifically. I just wanted to hear from you that you agree with me. That I'm not crazy.

Now when three participants with high statuses have the opinion that “it would be good if Fortunejack reconsidered his decision”

What do I need to do next?
Can we invite Fortunejack's representative again?

If Fortunejack refuses to reconsider his decision, can I initiate a motion to put a RED FLAG on the Fortunejack thread??? my accusation is “manipulation with the rules in order to obtain a guaranteed profit. The casino does not impose any restrictions on the player until the moment of withdrawal of funds. Leaving the player with only two options: either lose everything or, if he wins, take away all the winnings.”

I think (and I also received approval from the Bitcointalk community) that the casino needs to reconsider its decision and return all my winnings to my account! This confiscation of winnings has no moral or legal grounds!

Good move on your part. I have no idea why a guy looking for help attacks those trying to help. Even though I agree and support the OP with his case, I disagree with how the OP posts and I can completely understand your decision.

I believe the meaning of disposable itself is self explanatory. Included in it, though --as I also believe it can be agreed amongst many-- numbers that were meant to be used temporarily, instead of being someone's main phone number that they use for significantly longer period and throughout their daily life.

I was intending to know better about your situation and, from it, ask FJ if they can perhaps reconsider your case based on the situation I learn from your explanation. But quite frankly, though I usually just let things go and understood people here need to vent their frustration, I currently --and rather specifically, today-- have no interest in being a human punching bag.

I am removing myself from this thread and going into read-only mode. Other people are also reading and overseeing your case, perhaps they can help you. GL.

how many times do I need to repeat for you to hear me!? Fortunejack is violating his rights! My number was not "disposable". I am convinced of this and other forum participants. But why do you think that the number can be called “disposable”? Apparently there is some other definition in your head! Or you and I have a different definition in our heads of what a “disposable number” is. Based on this, it is not clear which number can be called “disposable”. In what cases can a number be recognized as “disposable”? This means that such a term should be described in the casino rules! Unfortunately this description is not available! This means that the casino does not have the right to refer to this clause of the rules, because there is no definition for this term! Tell me, do you agree with me??? so that I don’t need to write about it again and again.
Someone wrote above that these are common rules and no descriptions are needed for them. Guys, right now the casino, according to the common rules, simply has to pay out the winnings to the player, but the casino decides to apply a very strange and unusual solution, based on the rules of the casino! In this case, you and I should also forget about all the “common” rules! And follow only what is written in the casino rules!
Such rules do not in any way affect registration and play in the casino, and the description of the rules itself is very unprofessional! Therefore, if you so desire, this clause of the rules can be used to close an account or limit functionality, BUT stealing money from a client cannot be absolutely!

1. Could using a phone with a country code different from your place of residence be a trick to hide your location? or if there are obligations under which the player is required to use the number of his country of residence? NO, THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT THIS IN THE RULES. You can use any of your numbers that will not be “disposable”.
2. Is it possible to talk about some methods of masking your location from the casino? NO casinos don’t give a damn about your location! They don't ask what country you are a resident of even after checking your identity (they didn't ask me). The casino has only prohibited locations for different providers, which are limited by your IP address.

Please, I hope I have made it clear that using any number does not in any way affect registration or the use of bookmaker services! And also that this clause cannot be applied to me since this clause of the rules was drawn up incorrectly! It turns out that I did not violate any of the rules of the casino!


holydarkness, I wrote as an example that the casino could conduct any checks, including a WhatsApp message and a direct call. They didn't do any of this. Specifically, in my case, I indicated my number during registration, to which I received an SMS with a code. I entered this code and continued betting.
My country of birth and residence is Russia. This country does not have any restrictions when registering with a casino. There are restrictions on some providers that can be removed by using a VPN, which is also not prohibited by the casino!
holydarkness, tell me honestly, do you still think that a casino has the moral right to confiscate a player’s winnings using such a dubious clause in the rules? I want to say that at the moment most casinos generally have a rule clause like “we can cancel any bets at our discretion.” Only if the casino uses this clause of the rules will its reputation be destroyed and it will be a scam casino! The same thing is happening right now! The casino brazenly takes away the player's winnings!
I really want the casino to listen to the opinions of experienced forum participants and return my winnings to me, but if the casino refuses to follow the recommendations of members of the Bitcointalk community, then we should deservedly hang up a RED FLAG for this bookmaker!
You agree with me?

OP, though FJ already made their ruling and they're within their right [as per agreed on the ToS], if I may get a further context from you to better understand your situation,

They allows you to verify through WhatsApp call. Unlike the Thailand phone number, WhatsApp phone are connected to your main phone number and it works without having to have the SIM card to be active and inserted to your device, i.e. your WhatsApp will still be active even when you're in Thailand with Thai phone number. All it needs is an internet connection. I am interested to know why you opted out from this method?

Second, do you mind to inform us your original residencies?

This is a common knowledge that you should use mobile number with matched country code to the country that you choose when you register or else there will be conflict like this.

No one will use a roaming number if you are a permanent resident of a certain country because it costly than the regular sim cards. Their terms about “disposable number” is indeed peculiar but your case falls on that category if you are just using a temporary number even if it’s registered under your name while your real address conflicts on it.

@Fortunejack, maybe you should reconsider this case if this user KYC is valid while his profit is done through clean method because “disposable number” is honestly doesn’t make sense to seize profit. You should close his account the moment he register.

since you confirmed, you should be paid. Never heard of the disposal phone rule.

YES. At the very beginning when registering, the casino asks you to indicate:
- email, followed by a verification code sent to the mail. After entering the code, your mail receives a "verified" icon.
- phone number, after which you receive an SMS with a code. After entering the code, your number receives a “verified” icon

And I repeat that the casino has any options for verification - a direct call or a WhatsApp call and something else. However, most likely, what they have is enough for them.

Then let them first write in the rules a definition of what a “disposable" number is and only then refer to this paragraph of the rules for stealing winnings from the client’s account!

I advise you to read the law from the beginning, and only then choose which side to take! Because your arguments very suspiciously indicate a paid review!
This number was purchased in an official store and issued with my passport details, which by definition indicates that this number is mine!
And you must also understand that in the world there is no link between a phone number and a location, because the number can be used anywhere in the world! And the country code is indicated simply for the convenience of those who want to call, so that there are no unnecessary expenses due to roaming!
I carefully read all the rules when registering and I have no violations!
If over time the number was lost for any reason, this does not give the company a reason to deprive the client of all winnings! Just like the rules themselves do not indicate what a “disposable” number is. This means that the rule cannot be applied at all!

If you think that the country code of the number specified during registration and your place of residence should match. Firstly, this condition must be specified in the rules - BUT THIS AGAIN IS NOT DONE. and secondly, FORTUNEJACK DOES NOT CHECK YOUR PLACE OF RESIDENCE! Fortunejack only prohibits betting from prohibited locations!

Therefore, I repeat once again that Fortunjack Casino has neither the legal nor the moral right to deprive me of my winnings!

Did they send you a text to that phone number that you confirmed?

The law  is a very complex description in which each action or term has a specific characteristic!
Imagine that we are in court and Fortunejack is trying to say that he stole money from someone else’s account because the number was “disposable”. And it is for this reason that he refuses to pay out the winnings.
Firstly, everyone in the room will have a strange feeling of fraud on the part of the casino! What does this have to do with the number??? You are a gambling establishment! YOU accepted the bets and must pay according to the results of these bets!
Secondly, the judge will ask you: What is a “disposable” number??? At least let everyone know what this is??? Fortunjack, don’t you check the functionality of the number when registering???
 Yes, we are checking! And the number was successfully confirmed!
Then what is the question??? DO YOU want to say that if for some reason and your players at the time of withdrawing money or any other verification, the number does not work to receive a call, then you can cancel all winnings on the account??? or something different?
Fortunejack! In your rules there is no definition of what a “disposable” number is! However, you refer to this definition and want to take away all the money won from your client!?

I hope that you understand me. Such actions on the part of Fortunejack have no legal or moral legitimacy!
Fortunejack, I hope that you will come to your senses and pay me my winnings! And if it’s so important to you that your client stays in touch with you, then please update your company terms and conditions! Enter a definition of which number is “disposable” and describe in more detail what your client should do if for some reason he has lost access to the old number! You must do this to avoid similar situations in the future!

Simply you are using a mobile number that is not yours and from different country to hide your real location. You will not encounter this problem if you will just read their ToS before you play on this casino.

You are still lucky that they allow you to withdraw your entire deposit even if you violate their ToS which will not gonna happened if you play on other casino without active representative here in the forum. Just take your deposit and move on as they will not give you the profit due to this violation.

my number was not "disposable"! He was active all the time. You could have done any check, but for some reason you decided not to do it!
As of today, the number is not working. But this cannot give you the right to cancel all my winnings!

Do you like to follow rules? Fortunejack the term you use is a "disposable" phone number. Personally, I don’t understand what this means! Please indicate where in your rules the definition of what a “disposable” phone number is stated!!! your rule cannot be applied to me, because in your rules there is no definition of what a “disposable” number is!
Because a number that was previously used, but has ceased to be used over time, cannot be called a "disposable" number! and certainly cannot give you the right to cancel all my winnings!
I am sure that the Bitcoin community will fully support me!

ADante,

Thank you for entering the thread with a reply. By the letter of the law, you have the right to confiscate winnings. At the same time, the disposal phone is a unique rule to FJ and the ruling against the player is unjust. I realize that you’ve already ruled, just my opinion FWIW.

Hey, Bitcointalk community.


We have investigated this case and are going to share our findings with you.

OP’s account was registered/verified using a disposable phone number (From Thailand), which is a breach of our Terms and Conditions



Based on the evidence, our team is convinced that there was a breach of our T&C. However, the OP will be allowed to withdraw their entire deposit amount.



-ADante, FortuneJack Community Team.

I know of many different forums that only allow registration with certain email addresses. But they all have one thing in common - all this is checked before registration! If registration has already been completed and all possible checks have been made, then they will never tell you that you violated something retroactively.
As for the Fortunejack casino, they could easily offer their client to link a new  number! In this case, there were no restrictions on the account until I asked for money to be withdrawn!!! What kind of double play is this? The casino already knew that it wouldn’t pay and specifically allowed you to play!? This is called a game with a deliberate advantage! Fortunejack has a rule clause that says just that - that it is prohibited to place bets that knowingly give an unfair advantage in the bet! What happens when the casino breaks its own rules??? or is it a game that is impossible to win!

Fortunejack - you can't confiscate all my winnings just like that! You have many options to resolve this issue - as an example, just ask to link a new number! And call to talk if you need it so much!

I just shot FJ a PM just in case. Sorry holydarkness, I went back, read the thread and realized that you already reached out otherwise I wouldn't have done so.