Forum being abuse? | Bitcointalksearch.org

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Quote from: Danydee on August 19, 2023, 02:03:17 AM

IMO I think OP is a bit hard on the user, believe me if he's really guilty there's almost no way that he get something!
(Talkink about ToU / ToS they should never be unfair or abusive btw)

Quote from: BC.GAME on August 16, 2023, 05:18:07 PM

The violation was not of our terms and conditions. This decision was made by a third party risk management team. We ultimately decided that we don't always agree with other platforms terms of use. Since a player was affected by this through our platform, we felt it was the right thing to do. We are able to learn and change so this type of situation will not happen again.

You could at least have read this message, you think really the case could have treated like that ?

I think he missed it I'm not taking the user's side but BC.GAME did not refute it and admit that there was harm to the user's account so what they did was right so they are not accusing the user of wrongdoing, a casino will not yield to a false demand it's a bad precedence and they will be targeted for their weakness.
There was and there's still forum abuse by users creating false accusations but not on this one.

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Quote from: Renampun on August 21, 2023, 02:56:12 PM

Quote from: JeromeTash on August 17, 2023, 10:57:29 AM

This sometimes happens where cheaters try to manipulate forum members through scam accusations against services here, especially casinos. Sometimes it's so hard to know who is right or who is wrong, that's why casinos and the person accusing them are sometimes advised to try to use mediators to settle such disputes like askgamblers or casinoguru.

Scam is not moderated in the forum and so are the scam accusations. Have you noticed that mods will rarely delete posts in the scam accusations board?

that's right, I've seen for a long time that posts in the scam section are never deleted regardless of whether the allegations are true or false, this is a free forum and all members have the right to have opinions (the rules are like that)

the case that I often see is when a player is detected as having another account and when he or she wants to make a withdrawal, his account is immediately frozen, it's difficult to prove which is right and wrong because the gambling site doesn't want to divulge how they detect the alt account of the player by carelessly and it could be that the player did do that but didn't want to admit it, this is my reason for inviting members who are used to playing on gambling sites that are accused of giving opinions based on experience and also the evidence they can provide, that's really really helpful .

So how does a removing a post from scam accusation would help the casino or the player being affected?

As you mentioned that sometimes it is hard to judge who is speaking the truth and who is at fault, so it makes even harder for the forum admins to delete the post as they also do not know who is at fault.

Better to keep everything black and white on the scam accusation thread and the people will judge themselves who is standing at the right side and who is pretending to be right.

Renampun

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Quote from: JeromeTash on August 17, 2023, 10:57:29 AM

This sometimes happens where cheaters try to manipulate forum members through scam accusations against services here, especially casinos. Sometimes it's so hard to know who is right or who is wrong, that's why casinos and the person accusing them are sometimes advised to try to use mediators to settle such disputes like askgamblers or casinoguru.

Scam is not moderated in the forum and so are the scam accusations. Have you noticed that mods will rarely delete posts in the scam accusations board?

that's right, I've seen for a long time that posts in the scam section are never deleted regardless of whether the allegations are true or false, this is a free forum and all members have the right to have opinions (the rules are like that)

the case that I often see is when a player is detected as having another account and when he or she wants to make a withdrawal, his account is immediately frozen, it's difficult to prove which is right and wrong because the gambling site doesn't want to divulge how they detect the alt account of the player by carelessly and it could be that the player did do that but didn't want to admit it, this is my reason for inviting members who are used to playing on gambling sites that are accused of giving opinions based on experience and also the evidence they can provide, that's really really helpful .

Danydee

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But let's see... he could have been created a very new account and used it to complain without even mentioning if he's old forum user just like many does !! Or not??!

IMO I think OP is a bit hard on the user, believe me if he's really guilty there's almost no way that he get something!
(Talkink about ToU / ToS they should never be unfair or abusive btw)

Quote from: BC.GAME on August 16, 2023, 05:18:07 PM

The violation was not of our terms and conditions. This decision was made by a third party risk management team. We ultimately decided that we don't always agree with other platforms terms of use. Since a player was affected by this through our platform, we felt it was the right thing to do. We are able to learn and change so this type of situation will not happen again.

You could at least have read this message, you think really the case could have treated like that ?

IMO.. some platforms as sick as they are could flag a user just by seeing him doing some uncommon wins ! And as sick as they are could just stuck you by any diverted way just because they do not want to lose anything ! even if the fault is on them!

( third party risk management ) what that could be in sports betting? There is only one thing that comes my mind, is those "teams that works to find / detect rigged events / match fixing !", That rather by following the bets trends.. For example if all the odds are of 10% to 90% and they see an unusual number of bets on the (10%) they give an alert to stop it !

So overall do you think it fair to take his money just for suspicions ??!

AS SICK AS THEY ARE !

Buying Trustpilot ratings : >>

BTW I'm inviting everybody to come report this tweet : https://twitter.com/Dexsport_io/status/1692582741827596775?

UmerIdrees

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Quote from: JeromeTash on August 17, 2023, 10:57:29 AM

Sometimes it's so hard to know who is right or who is wrong, that's why casinos and the person accusing them are sometimes advised to try to use mediators to settle such disputes like askgamblers or casinoguru.

Scam is not moderated in the forum and so are the scam accusations. Have you noticed that mods will rarely delete posts in the scam accusations board?

Well, we all know that there are some casinos which are reputed ones. If anyone posts anything against them, no one is going to believe them and their reputation will not be hurt. Yes, if there are suddenly a lot of people complaining even about the reputed casino, then things might be different but one or two scam accusation threads wont hurt much to the good casinos.

Quote from: JeromeTash on August 17, 2023, 10:57:29 AM

Scam is not moderated in the forum and so are the scam accusations. Have you noticed that mods will rarely delete posts in the scam accusations board?

It's good that posts in scam accusations threads are not deleted. Even if someone comes up and put a wrong case on the casino, the casino representative should come up with evidence and proof that the person claiming is at fault himself.

Sexylizzy2813

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Quote from: Eternad on August 18, 2023, 11:53:06 AM

Quote from: Sexylizzy2813 on August 18, 2023, 02:45:52 AM

Quote from: Eternad on August 17, 2023, 08:31:14 AM

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How are you going to believe this guy in this case? This issue is some how complicated and you can't say Mr A is right and at the same time say Mr A is also right, like always? Someone is not telling the truth.
He got paid on the first complain by the first casino, now he's having same issue with another casino, my question is... What if he's using same pattern to get something from these casinos? Is not really clear, now same scam accusation on BC.game?
Like is he the only one that's being scammed by these casinos? Why are others not giving same complain?
I'm just saying though...

This is actually the point of my topic. The forum is being use to get their way against the casino assuming the user involved is indeed doing shady things. BC.game doesn’t disclose what the user did to violate their ToS which is understandable because it might be exploited by other user. We will never know who’s telling the truth unless both party agree to use 3rd party arbitrage just like what is suggested of some user.

I’m really doubtful about the credibility of this user because it happened to him on 2 different casino while Bc.game said that the user did violate their ToS and just paid using their own money.

If that's the case then to me I feel this user knows what he's doing, letting the Forum fight a battle for him to take the glory, being the victim here and causing damages to those casino even spoiling their reputation.
If he's found guilty I don't know what punishment would suit him and again I have this feeling that he might even have another account but he's using this one to do his dirty job in the Forum.

Eternad

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Quote from: Sexylizzy2813 on August 18, 2023, 02:45:52 AM

Quote from: Eternad on August 17, 2023, 08:31:14 AM

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How are you going to believe this guy in this case? This issue is some how complicated and you can't say Mr A is right and at the same time say Mr A is also right, like always? Someone is not telling the truth.
He got paid on the first complain by the first casino, now he's having same issue with another casino, my question is... What if he's using same pattern to get something from these casinos? Is not really clear, now same scam accusation on BC.game?
Like is he the only one that's being scammed by these casinos? Why are others not giving same complain?
I'm just saying though...

This is actually the point of my topic. The forum is being use to get their way against the casino assuming the user involved is indeed doing shady things. BC.game doesn’t disclose what the user did to violate their ToS which is understandable because it might be exploited by other user. We will never know who’s telling the truth unless both party agree to use 3rd party arbitrage just like what is suggested of some user.

I’m really doubtful about the credibility of this user because it happened to him on 2 different casino while Bc.game said that the user did violate their ToS and just paid using their own money.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Well, I believe that in some cases you are right, where a user can just make up some stories, all in the name of trying to paint a brand black, but sometimes there's usually no evidence to back up those claims, so it's condemned as all lies. If the user is just trying to formulate lies, there's a chance that he can be phished out as a cheat or abuser if he can't provide some substantial evidence to prove his claims. I guess his problem might just be a coincidence, because some gamblers really do not just use one casino; they usually try different casinos if they find out the casino has a different feature they desire.

Sexylizzy2813

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Quote from: Eternad on August 17, 2023, 08:31:14 AM

There's a user @mumu68 that recently have an issue against one of the casino. He submitted screenshots and evidence about his issue that is really valid. Later on, his case developed and the real issue arise when the casino gave their opinion. In the end, The casino pays the user using their own money despite the red flag suggested to them by 3rd party risk management since the user keeps pressuring them through negative attacks to their brand.

I was about to believe that user really deserved the payment until he recently post another same issue agains different casino. He is now doin again what he did on the previous casino.

He is claiming since 2018 yet he just recently made his first post for the scam accusation against BC.game.

How are you going to believe this guy in this case? This issue is some how complicated and you can't say Mr A is right and at the same time say Mr A is also right, like always? Someone is not telling the truth.
He got paid on the first complain by the first casino, now he's having same issue with another casino, my question is... What if he's using same pattern to get something from these casinos? Is not really clear, now same scam accusation on BC.game?
Like is he the only one that's being scammed by these casinos? Why are others not giving same complain?
I'm just saying though...

Mpamaegbu

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I haven't dug deeper into the case but one thing that struck me upon visiting mumu68's post history (who's the subject of OP's topic here) is that mumu68's posts are just on one subject matter – Scam Accusation. All the posts. This is the first time I've seen such apart from bounty hunters with the POA posts. The user has been here since 2018 but seems to have just one area of concentration. Do we take it that they're purely fixated on just that and have dedicated that account to do that hatchet job? At least, I know that's not the sole purpose of this forum.

Plaguedeath

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This is the risk of free speech and open discussion, anything can happen including someone want to cheat or abuse something, but there's nothing the moderator can do since forum doesn't moderate scam.

Someone can give neutral tag with "troll" as the description or click ignore his account, that's all.

But I disagree if newbie should be restricted to post in this section because there are so many victim who get scammed from centralized site but they don't have high account in this forum, obviously they will make a report with their newbie account.

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on August 17, 2023, 05:42:38 PM

Quote from: hd49728 on August 17, 2023, 09:45:04 AM

Quote from: elevates on August 17, 2023, 09:02:55 AM

As a recommendation newbies should be restricted to post on the gambling board and the scam accusation child board.

No more newbie jail, theymos said years ago.

Nope, and newbies shouldn't be blocked from making scam accusations IMO, because sometimes that's the only reason a person registers here, to drop some evidence that they got scammed and to warn everyone.

As far as mumu68 goes, I haven't read both threads in full yet but if his claims weren't valid there's no way in hell a casino would be pressured into paying him anything. If they did that simply because a random member of bitcointalk opened a scam accusation thread, every scammer out there would be targeting that casino with the same method. In addition, if the accusation is unfounded the casino's official account usually posts some kind of defense, and I've seen that a few times.

But I don't know, man. These days it's hard to tell who's scamming who. There's so much of it going on, and when you throw gamblers and casinos into the mix....it's goddamn difficult. I wouldn't pounce on mumu68 just yet; if his evidence of getting scammed is legit it'll stand up to scrutiny. If not, there's not much anyone can do about it anyway since scams aren't moderated. He could get tagged by DT members, but since he's not exactly an active member I doubt that would cause him much of a problem.

I agree with you, that beginners should not be blocked or limited in making accusations, even though he doesn't have any ranking in this forum so his accusations should be ignored and it doesn't mean he is an obscure person to mess up the forum, but maybe he is using the forum to warns us and takes away the rights that rightfully belong to him.

As long as he shows concrete evidence of course that is something good, of course for those of us who like to gamble at casinos that run ads on forums.

We only need to pay attention to what really happened to mumu68, and what kind of delivery he is trying to convey in his writing, in the end there will be two sides that intersect between the official casino account and the victim, we will see who the real fraudster is after so many rebuttals and the explanations they made in discussing their accusations.

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Quote from: hd49728 on August 17, 2023, 09:45:04 AM

Quote from: elevates on August 17, 2023, 09:02:55 AM

As a recommendation newbies should be restricted to post on the gambling board and the scam accusation child board.

No more newbie jail, theymos said years ago.

Nope, and newbies shouldn't be blocked from making scam accusations IMO, because sometimes that's the only reason a person registers here, to drop some evidence that they got scammed and to warn everyone.

As far as mumu68 goes, I haven't read both threads in full yet but if his claims weren't valid there's no way in hell a casino would be pressured into paying him anything. If they did that simply because a random member of bitcointalk opened a scam accusation thread, every scammer out there would be targeting that casino with the same method. In addition, if the accusation is unfounded the casino's official account usually posts some kind of defense, and I've seen that a few times.

But I don't know, man. These days it's hard to tell who's scamming who. There's so much of it going on, and when you throw gamblers and casinos into the mix....it's goddamn difficult. I wouldn't pounce on mumu68 just yet; if his evidence of getting scammed is legit it'll stand up to scrutiny. If not, there's not much anyone can do about it anyway since scams aren't moderated. He could get tagged by DT members, but since he's not exactly an active member I doubt that would cause him much of a problem.

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Quote from: elevates on August 17, 2023, 09:02:55 AM

In most cases, they are targeting trusted online casinos which have been in existence for a few years.

I would say that lesser known brands are more at risk. Casinos that are trying to build a reputation and do not want the negative publicity talk in the forum. If casinos have evidence a user is cheating them, then they shouldn't worry about any publicity. They can use a mediator and show their proof and end of story.

Most cases we see in the scam accusations board are bs, but there are a select few that are legit. The issue we face is casino's do not show their proof. If they did, then scammers get smarter and learn how to beat em. So if you have a legitimate claim, you need to get the casino to agree to an outside mediator and both parties agree to the mediators ruling.

yhiaali3

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It may be a coincidence that the problem is repeated twice with the same user, and this may be a kind of fraud that he takes as a profession. We cannot judge until we hear the justification of the accused member.

Although from the first impression I think that it is difficult to repeat the same problem with the same player twice!! This is somewhat difficult to happen because the question that will come to everyone's mind is why these problems occur only with this member? Especially when the casino is reliable and has a good reputation, this makes such charges hard to believe.

Such things harm the reputation of the forum as well as the reputation of Crypto, especially since governments want to catch anything suspicious to discredit Crypto.

Faisal2202

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Quote from: elevates on August 17, 2023, 09:02:55 AM

It has been an issue lately wherein suddenly a newbie comes up and creates an ANN on the scam child board. In most cases, they are targeting trusted online casinos which have been in existence for a few years. I won't deny that trusted casinos are not scamming innocent users. That being said but sudden constant flow of scam accusations is really alarming. The forum admin should look into this problem. As a recommendation newbies should be restricted to post on the gambling board and the scam accusation child board. Only if they buy copper membership they should be allowed if every new member has to pay the evil fee then why not put restrictions on newbie posting on concerned boards?

That's not a good idea and what difference will it make that only the copper membership ones should be allowed instead there will be a slight decrease in new accounts like these. TBH, despite of my interest toward Gambling i will say the one who is mentioned by OP is at right because he did got his payment in the first case.

If he was making fake excuses or blackmailing them then instead of getting payed he would be red tagged already. But in second case, the case which that company has opened of multi accounts can not be proved by one until they respond by themselves.

But till then we should listen to the dude and should not jump to outcomes.

skarais

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Quote from: elevates on August 17, 2023, 09:02:55 AM

It has been an issue lately wherein suddenly a newbie comes up and creates an ANN on the scam child board. In most cases, they are targeting trusted online casinos which have been in existence for a few years. I won't deny that trusted casinos are not scamming innocent users. That being said but sudden constant flow of scam accusations is really alarming. The forum admin should look into this problem.

No, that's not an admin's job. Everything that is at risk of losing money is your responsibility, even forum do not moderate scam. So don't ask this admin or forum to investigate scam just because you or some other user got scammed by one or two different platforms.

Quote from: elevates on August 17, 2023, 09:02:55 AM

As a recommendation newbies should be restricted to post on the gambling board and the scam accusation child board. Only if they buy copper membership they should be allowed if every new member has to pay the evil fee then why not put restrictions on newbie posting on concerned boards?

No, I don't agree, that's a bad idea. Think of the negative effects of restrictions rather than just dwelling on the lesser positives.

Frankolala

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Quote from: elevates on August 17, 2023, 09:02:55 AM

As a recommendation newbies should be restricted to post on the gambling board and the scam accusation child board.

You are over reacting mate,Theymos has given access to everyone to post on various boards because this community is a free world. When you were a newbie,you were given free access to post and now you want the newbies to be restricted to lay their complain and should contribute on gambling board. If it is so then the newbies shouldn't also gamble in a casino here,how about that ?

Casinos should also come up with their claims that the gambler didn't deserve his wins or should come up with a good reason why the gambler shouldn't be allowed to withdraw his win,if he has violated any of their T&C. I know vivdly that if a member complains about a casino depriving him from withdrawal,forum members will ask the person if he hasn't violated the T&C of the casino. Gambling is for all either newbie or Legend members and that is why newbies wouldn't be restricted to post on those boards that you have mentioned.

Quote from: elevates on August 17, 2023, 09:02:55 AM

Only if they buy copper membership they should be allowed if every new member has to pay the evil fee then why not put restrictions on newbie posting on concerned boards?

You didn't buy a corper membership,neither did you pay any evil fee. Not everyone can afford to pay these fees that you mentioned.

Little Mouse

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Think exactly the opposite. This is true that some users use the forum reputation of a casino as a threat and try to abuse. But there are also casinos that abuse such rules and use such rules as weapons to restrict withdrawal thus not paying an actual winning. As long as you win small and withdraw small, they won't have much problem in your account. But whenever you will hit a big win and go to withdraw, the casino put restrictions and forces KYC, etc, and then comes up with an excuse to cancel the withdraw.

JeromeTash

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This sometimes happens where cheaters try to manipulate forum members through scam accusations against services here, especially casinos. Sometimes it's so hard to know who is right or who is wrong, that's why casinos and the person accusing them are sometimes advised to try to use mediators to settle such disputes like askgamblers or casinoguru.

Scam is not moderated in the forum and so are the scam accusations. Have you noticed that mods will rarely delete posts in the scam accusations board?

Eternad

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Quote from: bitbollo on August 17, 2023, 08:48:33 AM

Keep in mind that he is probably a gambler and also plays substantial sums (2000 usd as a deposit is not a small amount ...)

I understand this and I’m not removing this possibility. I’m just skeptical on this user since he is problematic on multiple casino. I’m also aware that arbitrage betting is being abused lately since this is very popular on Reddit gambling subforum and most of them use much higher amount.

On his case, he only bet few times after creating an account then withdraw.

virasog

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Quote from: Eternad on August 17, 2023, 08:31:14 AM

There's a user @mumu68 that recently have an issue against one of the casino. He submitted screenshots and evidence about his issue that is really valid. Later on, his case developed and the real issue arise when the casino gave their opinion. In the end, The casino pays the user using their own money despite the red flag suggested to them by 3rd party risk management since the user keeps pressuring them through negative attacks to their brand.

I haven't read this case in depth, but my point of view is that if a person is claiming a false scam accusation against any casino, it should be a no concern for the casino and they should not become under any pressure. A gambler who is saying wrongly about any casino won't be able to produce valid evidence against the casino while the casino must be able to produce some pieces of evidence which will prove that the scammer is speaking false.

Quote from: hd49728 on August 17, 2023, 09:45:04 AM

Thinking about it, I see it is unreasonable to have such restrictions, like newbies are not allowed to post in gambling board or Scam accusation board. It does not make any sense as if I can bet, I have rights to post, complain and create a scam accusation thread.

Also, not all the newbies speak falsely about the casino, some have real concerns, and we just cannot treat everyone the same like disallowing the newbies in certain boards or sections.

hd49728

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Quote from: elevates on August 17, 2023, 09:02:55 AM

As a recommendation newbies should be restricted to post on the gambling board and the scam accusation child board.

No more newbie jail, theymos said years ago.

Thinking about it, I see it is unreasonable to have such restrictions, like newbies are not allowed to post in gambling board or Scam accusation board. It does not make any sense as if I can bet, I have rights to post, complain and create a scam accusation thread.

A scam casino is a scam and I am a newbie or a legendary player does not change what that casino is, scam or not, it is their platform and how they treat users.

elevates

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It has been an issue lately wherein suddenly a newbie comes up and creates an ANN on the scam child board. In most cases, they are targeting trusted online casinos which have been in existence for a few years. I won't deny that trusted casinos are not scamming innocent users. That being said but sudden constant flow of scam accusations is really alarming. The forum admin should look into this problem. As a recommendation newbies should be restricted to post on the gambling board and the scam accusation child board. Only if they buy copper membership they should be allowed if every new member has to pay the evil fee then why not put restrictions on newbie posting on concerned boards?

Dunamisx

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Quote from: Eternad on August 17, 2023, 08:31:14 AM

I was about to believe that user really deserved the payment until he recently post another same issue agains different casino. He is now doin again what he did on the previous casino.

He is claiming since 2018 yet he just recently made his first post for the scam accusation against BC.game.

People can come up with many ways to deceive others and think we all reason the same way they did, if truly what he is doing was a blackmail then he will surely get stucked in a pit he won't be able to escape a return for another attempts, i don't know what he stands to gain for doing that, but am sure he will soon end his bitcointalk career if all evidence were pointing at him for doing so, he will be tagged and i think that's good enough to notify others that will be further coming in contact with him.

I guess this should be best discussed on reputation.

bitbollo

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I have witnessed a situation in the past where there was a clearly fraudulent intent to receive a win... yes for sure this is not the first time that we see something similar.
In this specific case, I honestly can't see all the details to make me think of malicious user intervention.
Keep in mind that he is probably a gambler and also plays substantial sums (2000 usd as a deposit is not a small amount ...)

Eternad

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There's a user @mumu68 that recently have an issue against one of the casino. He submitted screenshots and evidence about his issue that is really valid. Later on, his case developed and the real issue arise when the casino gave their opinion. In the end, The casino pays the user using their own money despite the red flag suggested to them by 3rd party risk management since the user keeps pressuring them through negative attacks to their brand.

I was about to believe that user really deserved the payment until he recently post another same issue agains different casino. He is now doin again what he did on the previous casino.

He is claiming since 2018 yet he just recently made his first post for the scam accusation against BC.game.

Is his problem is just a coincidence?

You can read both case on the threads below:
Case 1: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bcgame-trying-to-scam-blatantly-solved-after-80-days-5456655
Case 2: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62705064

PS: I made this topic on Meta since I'm concern that forum is being use by potential cheater to pressure casino here that protecting their public reputation. Please let me know if this is correct board.

Topic: Forum being abuse? (Read 353 times)