France, Germany want limits on encryption to fight terrorism - page 2.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: Gronthaing on August 25, 2016, 10:12:28 PM

Quote from: countryfree on August 25, 2016, 06:12:39 PM

Quote from: Gronthaing on August 24, 2016, 08:54:31 PM

Quote from: countryfree on August 24, 2016, 07:18:28 PM

Everybody knows that all terrorists (in the western world) are muslims, so they could just ban islam, close down all their places of worship, and deport all muslims to muslim countries where they could all live happily forever and the terror problem would be solved. No need to block encryption. Alas, it's way too late to think of that. One minister in France is muslim, and London's mayor is muslim, too. So the open society will gradually loose it openness.

Didn't know breivik was muslim. Or that the neo nazis that did these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus_serial_murders and the cologne bombing were muslim. Or that the guys doing the pipe bomb attacks in northern ireland are muslim. Or that c18, white wolves and related groups are muslim. Etc.

I meant in the present times. During the last decade in the western world, all terror has been coming from muslim. I know the past was different, but I do not live in the past. Also, by terror, I mean people dying. In France and Germany, there's been people painting pigs on the walls of a mosque but I don't see that as terror.

Not sure you live in the present either:
breivik - 2011
bosphorus serial murders - until 2006
northern ireland - current: http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/northern-ireland-top-eu-target-10315447
c18 and related groups - probably current: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/belfast-racists-threaten-to-cut-romanian-babys-throat-28484870.html

And here are a few more:
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201208050006
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201507230080
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201002180013
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=200907290025
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201511270001

You can say recent terror attacks in the west by jihadists have been the most deadly. That is probably true. But not the only type of terrorist attacks in the western world. And not even the most common type. According to europol for the year 2015 for example, out of over 200 terrorist attacks and attempted terrorist attacks in europe less than 20 were by jihadists. Can't you see this is just the latest excuse for them to do something they have been trying for a long time? Everyone is panicking about the muslims that are going to kill us all that they decided to try again.

I guess we don't have the same definition of "terror" nor "in the present time".

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/belfast-racists-threaten-to-cut-romanian-babys-throat-28484870.html
This example is really laughable. One threat 7 years ago.

There's no more terror in Ireland. It's a very quiet country by all standards. Compare the deaths by irish nationalists in the past 5 years, to the deaths by muslims in the past 5 years. The ratio is probably around 1 to 100.

Azael

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I think of it a bit like this on 'limits on encryption'. As a lot of people spend many hours sometimes more time online than they do in real life it is like everybody would leave their house unlocked and allow video cameras in it that can be switched on at any time to "make sure you're safe" or so the government can see you aren't up to something you shouldn't be.

Obviously people don't want this and when the older generation die suggestions like these will become political suicide.

Gronthaing

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Quote from: countryfree on August 25, 2016, 06:12:39 PM

Quote from: Gronthaing on August 24, 2016, 08:54:31 PM

Quote from: countryfree on August 24, 2016, 07:18:28 PM

Everybody knows that all terrorists (in the western world) are muslims, so they could just ban islam, close down all their places of worship, and deport all muslims to muslim countries where they could all live happily forever and the terror problem would be solved. No need to block encryption. Alas, it's way too late to think of that. One minister in France is muslim, and London's mayor is muslim, too. So the open society will gradually loose it openness.

Didn't know breivik was muslim. Or that the neo nazis that did these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus_serial_murders and the cologne bombing were muslim. Or that the guys doing the pipe bomb attacks in northern ireland are muslim. Or that c18, white wolves and related groups are muslim. Etc.

I meant in the present times. During the last decade in the western world, all terror has been coming from muslim. I know the past was different, but I do not live in the past. Also, by terror, I mean people dying. In France and Germany, there's been people painting pigs on the walls of a mosque but I don't see that as terror.

Not sure you live in the present either:
breivik - 2011
bosphorus serial murders - until 2006
northern ireland - current: http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/northern-ireland-top-eu-target-10315447
c18 and related groups - probably current: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/belfast-racists-threaten-to-cut-romanian-babys-throat-28484870.html

And here are a few more:
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201208050006
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201507230080
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201002180013
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=200907290025
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/search/IncidentSummary.aspx?gtdid=201511270001

You can say recent terror attacks in the west by jihadists have been the most deadly. That is probably true. But not the only type of terrorist attacks in the western world. And not even the most common type. According to europol for the year 2015 for example, out of over 200 terrorist attacks and attempted terrorist attacks in europe less than 20 were by jihadists. Can't you see this is just the latest excuse for them to do something they have been trying for a long time? Everyone is panicking about the muslims that are going to kill us all that they decided to try again.

countryfree

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Activity: 3038

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: Gronthaing on August 24, 2016, 08:54:31 PM

Quote from: countryfree on August 24, 2016, 07:18:28 PM

Everybody knows that all terrorists (in the western world) are muslims, so they could just ban islam, close down all their places of worship, and deport all muslims to muslim countries where they could all live happily forever and the terror problem would be solved. No need to block encryption. Alas, it's way too late to think of that. One minister in France is muslim, and London's mayor is muslim, too. So the open society will gradually loose it openness.

Didn't know breivik was muslim. Or that the neo nazis that did these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus_serial_murders and the cologne bombing were muslim. Or that the guys doing the pipe bomb attacks in northern ireland are muslim. Or that c18, white wolves and related groups are muslim. Etc.

I meant in the present times. During the last decade in the western world, all terror has been coming from muslim. I know the past was different, but I do not live in the past. Also, by terror, I mean people dying. In France and Germany, there's been people painting pigs on the walls of a mosque but I don't see that as terror.

Gronthaing

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Quote from: xht on August 25, 2016, 05:32:37 PM

I guess encrypted application developers should consider it, their duty to humanity or to assist in the destruction ISIS, but all Muslim terrorist group.

This won't stop terrorism. And it was never about stopping terrorism. It is just an excuse. Terrorism existed long before encryption was available in convenient apps. Terrorists will continue by using other ways to communicate like they did before. If they don't already do that. And you think this is needed to stop isis? Look at what happened when turkey thought the kurds might advance on isis territory. Moved in and cleared isis out immediately. No problem whatsoever. To destroy isis just stop funding and arming them. No need to give more power to the government.

xht

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hey you, yeah you, fuck you!!!

I guess encrypted application developers should consider it, their duty to humanity or to assist in the destruction ISIS, but all Muslim terrorist group.

Masha Sha

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Quote from: mOgliE on August 24, 2016, 11:21:27 PM

Quote from: spazzdla on August 23, 2016, 03:44:10 PM

Only a fool would ask for this. It will cause more terrorism... alas.. our "leaders" can barely turn on a computer and refuse to learn anything new or useful soo....

Lol!
That's rather true. I'm looking forward the day we'll have engineers at the head of our states...
Then the country will be ruled by science and logic, that'll be the best era of humanity!

It doesn't work... Common sense and free market are the only sustainable path. Humans aren't averageable. There will always be the ones to create chaos in planning... Those acting voluntarily are even less problematic than the involuntary ones... Those, man, what ever the plan can crash anything... Specially the best plans...

mOgliE

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Quote from: spazzdla on August 23, 2016, 03:44:10 PM

Only a fool would ask for this. It will cause more terrorism... alas.. our "leaders" can barely turn on a computer and refuse to learn anything new or useful soo....

Lol!
That's rather true. I'm looking forward the day we'll have engineers at the head of our states...
Then the country will be ruled by science and logic, that'll be the best era of humanity!

Gronthaing

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Quote from: countryfree on August 24, 2016, 07:18:28 PM

Everybody knows that all terrorists (in the western world) are muslims, so they could just ban islam, close down all their places of worship, and deport all muslims to muslim countries where they could all live happily forever and the terror problem would be solved. No need to block encryption. Alas, it's way too late to think of that. One minister in France is muslim, and London's mayor is muslim, too. So the open society will gradually loose it openness.

Didn't know breivik was muslim. Or that the neo nazis that did these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosphorus_serial_murders and the cologne bombing were muslim. Or that the guys doing the pipe bomb attacks in northern ireland are muslim. Or that c18, white wolves and related groups are muslim. Etc.

countryfree

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Activity: 3038

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Your country may be your worst enemy

The plan also shows French and German politicians have no guts. Everybody knows that all terrorists (in the western world) are muslims, so they could just ban islam, close down all their places of worship, and deport all muslims to muslim countries where they could all live happily forever and the terror problem would be solved. No need to block encryption. Alas, it's way too late to think of that. One minister in France is muslim, and London's mayor is muslim, too. So the open society will gradually loose it openness.

olubams

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All I can see in whatever they are doing is just a way to feel themselves in the sense that so that the masses can say they are doing something. If they really want to tackle whatever they are claiming to tackle then they should go to the source of the issue and stop wasting time on frivolities of encryption or any ephemeral things...My opinion though...

Quote from: MisO69 on August 24, 2016, 10:55:02 AM

Quote from: NeuroticFish on August 23, 2016, 07:19:17 AM

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article97299902.html

Quote

PARIS - France and Germany pushed Tuesday for Europe-wide rules requiring messaging apps such as Telegram to limit encryption to help governments monitor communications among suspected extremists.

I think that they've missed something...
The unencrypted communications are part of the past and present, but no will not be part of the near future. They have to find better tools, not rules.

They know where the terrorists are, all they have to do is go there and kill them. Rules are not going to change anything since these guys don't play by the rules. Sounds like the same old politico bullshit to draw out this conflict even further.

MisO69

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My mule don't like people laughing

Quote from: NeuroticFish on August 23, 2016, 07:19:17 AM

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article97299902.html

Quote

PARIS - France and Germany pushed Tuesday for Europe-wide rules requiring messaging apps such as Telegram to limit encryption to help governments monitor communications among suspected extremists.

I think that they've missed something...
The unencrypted communications are part of the past and present, but no will not be part of the near future. They have to find better tools, not rules.

They know where the terrorists are, all they have to do is go there and kill them. Rules are not going to change anything since these guys don't play by the rules. Sounds like the same old politico bullshit to draw out this conflict even further.

catch.me.if.you.can

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If encryption is unreliable, then the bitcoin is unreliable.

criptix

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Masha Sha

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I think it's important to be realistic. A tool who could defeat the nsa is not yet to be available. Why? Because if the technology side is Unbreakable by them, if the target has enough value, it moved to human intelligence, i.e. Physical extraction.

The problem is more people like Hillary and co who I am sure would be willing to fight the nsa to kill the us constitution and bills of rights...

Then using a copyrighted Trojan horse is a bad idea for privacy... Like Windows.

Having private digital communications is something worth coding for.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 24, 2016, 04:48:00 AM

Recently, I have noticed that the Western countries are electing very authoritarian rulers, who stand against personal freedom. Examples are Theressa May of England, Angela Merkel of Germany, Dalia Grybauskaitė of Lithuania, Park Geun-hye of South Korea, and Tsai Ing-wen of Taiwan. Soon we will be able to add Hitlery Clinton to this list as well.

Heh, I wouldn't say Donald (Duck) Trump(et) is better.
But you're right, I didn't think on that: lately somehow people seem to elect the ones that will certainly harm they more. I really hope that this will change soon.

Something else: I've just read this: http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/08/cisco-firewall-exploit-shows-how-nsa-decrypted-vpn-traffic/
And this makes more sense. Whatever encryption people will try to use, the Operating System will send the data to Big Brother before it's encrypted. This is the obvious next step, if it's not implemented already....

bryant.coleman

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Recently, I have noticed that the Western countries are electing very authoritarian rulers, who stand against personal freedom. Examples are Theressa May of England, Angela Merkel of Germany, Dalia Grybauskaitė of Lithuania, Park Geun-hye of South Korea, and Tsai Ing-wen of Taiwan. Soon we will be able to add Hitlery Clinton to this list as well.

Masha Sha

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Quote from: NeuroticFish on August 24, 2016, 03:44:14 AM

Quote from: Gronthaing on August 23, 2016, 07:17:51 PM

Fight terrorism? Same old excuses. They have been trying to do something like this for a long time. And now with the recent attacks in europe the public may accept that justification. But it won't stop any terrorists. Or anyone who cares about privacy. Most will move to free open source alternatives. If they haven't already.

It's obviously a lame excuse, but as countryfree said, it's a step towards banning cryptocurrencies and (I'd add) god knows what other limitations to the honest citizen.
I feel like the politicians today are dumber and dumber. They don't see it coming, but people will get soon fed up with them.

Agreed. Open source p2p encrypted, time to tell good bye to those data harvesters. They will not be able to pass it... Too big too rules banks and financial services will not tolerate to have their data harvested... So I am waiting for them to receive the call for the cto of Goldman Sachs...

Don't forget they play dumb... And even if they are: it's not an excuse. Then put in the context of the take over of icann nothing good is coming...

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: Gronthaing on August 23, 2016, 07:17:51 PM

Fight terrorism? Same old excuses. They have been trying to do something like this for a long time. And now with the recent attacks in europe the public may accept that justification. But it won't stop any terrorists. Or anyone who cares about privacy. Most will move to free open source alternatives. If they haven't already.

It's obviously a lame excuse, but as countryfree said, it's a step towards banning cryptocurrencies and (I'd add) god knows what other limitations to the honest citizen.
I feel like the politicians today are dumber and dumber. They don't see it coming, but people will get soon fed up with them.

Gronthaing

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Activity: 1135

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Fight terrorism? Same old excuses. They have been trying to do something like this for a long time. And now with the recent attacks in europe the public may accept that justification. But it won't stop any terrorists. Or anyone who cares about privacy. Most will move to free open source alternatives. If they haven't already.

Topic: France, Germany want limits on encryption to fight terrorism - page 2. (Read 2306 times)