Topic: FreiCoin (FRC) Fork WITHOUT 80% Of Coins Given To FreiCoin Foundation - page 4. (Read 20795 times)

@hanzac

It's a one-time-only initial distribution of coins that (unfortunately for greedy miners) doesn't go to miners.
A tax needs a State or another coercion source to enforce it. This is a voluntary currency, if you don't like the initial distribution rules just don't use it. If you like demurrage but not this distribution rule, just fork it instead of planning a hard-fork attack.
If miners colluded through a hard fork to change initial bitcoin rules to their benefit (for example, issuing 100 M instead of 21) wouldn't that be considered an attack? The honest (in the same meaning it has in Satoshi's bitcoin whitepaper) nodes would just reject those block and the real bitcoin network would continue, just with less hashing power.

What is a fair trade? By forcing a 80% tax? This is obviously greed and even can be put a scam tag. Such greed won't even push the FRC forward, because it seems that it's a permanent tax & the money is permanent in your hands, that makes the FRC value won't go higher. You're not the government, a government supported central bank, it has the gold reserve & the nation's trust as the foundation to support their currency supply. What you can offer, a piece of the modified code of the original bitcoin? I can only say that's too greed. OVER.

Yes, I meant that by honest nodes, nodes that follow the initial rules instead of your attack. Seriously, if you really like freicoin without the fund, just start a new chain, but do it right: rewrite the reward for miners curve. You just need to copy and paste from an earlier beta (I think beta3 will make it).

By giving more coins to miners you'd be putting more of them in the hands of miners, not necessarily users, that's our point.

If you know of a method for distributing the foundation's part of the supply to everyone in an "open, decentralized and fair manner" (we disagree mining is such a method), please let us know. We've been trying to think of something for years without success.

I have to say 80% of the out-come of miners are insane & too much greed! You're just taking other people (miners) as slaves. The tax is high than any other countries in the world and this is a scam, really is a scam!

Good job, TradeFortress! Although, I don't like FRC & not mine FRC. But still support you by words.

By "honest" nodes, you mean nodes that pays the 80% tax? Hmm? By using this fork right now, you're voting with your hashrate.

Also, this fork will put MORE frc in the hands of miners and users, instead of more frc into the foundation. It's basically what happens if the Foundation Reserve distributed their self-printed to everyone in a open, decentralized and fair manner.

You can discuss about how mandating 80% of mined coins goes to you is honest, but at the end of the day, the network, the miners and the users makes the decision on which version they're going to use.

Ok, then when you your fork starts rejecting them it will be a hard fork. At that point honest nodes will start ignoring your branch of the chain.

And again, even if all nodes accepted your hard fork, if you don't change the reward for miners formula it will take many many years to have a fixed supply. We wanted less years than bitcoin even before the 80% fund decision and your fork will take many more than bitcoin.

It's like when IXcoin creator thought he was issuing the 21 M twice as fast when in fact with his original code he was issuing 42 M in the same time. You just don't understand "your own" code.

This won't kill Freicoin. It'll kill the foundation from controlling 80% of it

Mine Freicoin? Instead of 80% of it going to the foundation, make 80% of it go to you just like how it's supposed to be. Download and make this fork the exact way you did it previously

if your fork really works, probably you will kill Freicoin. But in the end, the miners will decide that

Considering how ~80% of the current Freicoins in existence are owned by Foundation or Foundation members, that might be a good idea.

My impression of original freicoin developers have changed dramatically after seeing how they spread FUD to get their 80% cut.

THIS WILL NOT BE REJECTED BY THE NETWORK. Wanna know why? Because the blocks are still valid to the network with the 80% foundation backdoor.

"come work with us"

Is that what you're seriously saying? "Come work with the Feds - we can print you a bit USD if you support us!"

False (try it). Specifically, see lines #2004-2005 of main.cpp. And no, it doesn't matter if you change that line either - it only matters what code the rest of the network is using.


Come back to reality. Industrial mining has become dominated by a privileged technological elite. Maybe when bitcoin started it was democratic (before GPU mining, before ASICs), but it certainly isn't anymore. The purpose of an initial distribution is to get currency in the hands of everybody as quickly as possible, and to get money flowing in the marketplaces (and not just the currency markets). If you have a good idea for accomplishing that goal in a fair and democratic manor, submit it to us. Or come work with us and become a part of the foundation.

20% + perpetual subsidy of an active, vibrant economy is worth infinitely more than 100% of a dead coin.

Oh I see. You're looking to get over 51% of the FRC hashing power running this fork. Like a hostile takeover.

This needs to be a new chain not a takeover. Maaku I don't suppose you'd be interested in running a demurrage coin without the 80% non-miner distribution.

You don't understand, the generation curve was adapted after the 80% fund was decided upon. You need to change it back if you want the initial fixed supply to be out in a few years. Otherwise you will issue 20% in 2 years and then it will take many more years to issue the rest.

Also, about compatibility...it's like when a chain suffers a time travel attack. Hashing power doesn't matter: honest nodes will still take the last checkpoint as their base. To do what you want, you would have to convince all the other nodes to accept your hard fork, otherwise the original chain will just continue.

1. Somehow you're failing to comprehend it. Blocks created by this client will not be rejected by "the network" at the moment.

There isn't just the network. There is multiple networks. Let's call it the Central Freicoin Reserve network. We have this Open Decentralized Network. These two networks will conflict, but the blissful days of expecting nobody will fork an open source project like you did for bitcoin are over.

2. Blocks created by YOUR (80% goes for you to spend on a "open transparent process" see later) client will be rejected by this network, which will beat "your" network simply because people will migrate given the choice. I like how you (not singular, but foundation) think you own Freicoin, the network, and all coins, which is probably why you decided to even come up with this 80% idea. No. This, along with every bitcoin fork, is an open source project.

3. It just takes a few pools to see the benefits in making Freicoin more decentralized, secure, and better for miners (vs better for your foundation). Your claim would have some merit if everyone has a fair say into the matter, because it's not hard to see that the Foundation won't reject anything that benefits them or their members. Like Congress passing themselves a pay increase - some members would vote no to appear better knowing that it will pass, but they all want it.

Open transparent process? Heck, go look at what happened with OpenOffice and LibreOffice. Sure, open source and stuff, but people migrate if you decide to eat the cake selfishly.

?

That sentence doesn't even make sense. You've made a hard-fork. Blocks created by your client are rejected by the network. Nodes running your client get blacklisted by the rest of the network for forwarding invalid blocks as a denial-of-service protection. By transacting in the forked chain you run the risk of having your coins stolen on the main chain. You could have million times the hash of the rest of the network and it wouldn't matter: the fork would still be invalid and summarily rejected. The OP incorrectly implies otherwise.

We've said this so many times I've simply given up on repeating myself. But here it goes once more: every single satoshi of the Foundation outputs will be given out in grants in an open, transparent process. You can take part in that discussion here:

http://www.freicoin.org/freicoin-foundation-development-thread-t81.html

Or simply start drafting your own grant proposal.

Your claim that this is incorrect is incorrect, because it does generate your forced tax at the current moment. But it will not soon, and it will block all of your foundation (aka "federal freicoin reserve", a private, exclusive group with 80% control of the monetary supply) will be blacklisted.

This fork will ACCEPT blocks without the forced tax.

It should be noted that Makuu and other Foundation/Reserve members have a direct monetary benefit and goal to disencourage you from using this fork. Meanwhile, I'm not making any profit out of this like him.

This is incorrect. Any block that does not contain a valid budgetary output is summarily rejected by the Freicoin network, regardless of the hash-power thrown at this fork.

Want to share in the 80% distribution? Then spend your time putting together a grant proposal for something constructive.

False. More coins will not be created.

When this fork reaches stage two, the DISTRIBUTION will be changed. Still the same amount of coins.

Let's use BTC as an example. Right now, each block can have 25BTC from coinbase. But the Bitcoin Foundation takes 20 bitcoins out of the 25 BTC, and you only get 5 btc per block.

Easy to make your own fork an remove the 80%