I may sound like a heretic, but I believe that greed is a great motivator (actually the only motivator for the plebs) and exactly the "rich get richer" scheme is the best motivation for the poor to jump the train. Basically it says: "If we succeed, you better join us now, not later, because you will get and keep getting the benefits as time passes. The later you join, the less you will gain". I see why this feels appealing to masses and that's why I act liek the masses.
Getting miners? You think this will ever appeal to anyone but geeks? Such idea is ridiculous.
Be honest to yourself and ask if the Bitcoin potential price rise is not perhaps the only motivator to actually stay here. See shitcoin reddits get pumped after the price pump scams.
also,
Reinvestment to hardware <-> Investment to POS coin
Topic: From POW to POS： is it the evolution or retrogress of cryptography currency? - page 2. (Read 1333 times)
July 01, 2015, 04:06:26 AM
July 01, 2015, 03:00:11 AM
Please stop with the nonsense. In every discussion that we've had about changes to the fundamental rules (or other) there are individuals who are suggesting POS and often mentioning PeerCoin.
That's not something that is going to every happen and I'd put it in the same bag as the potential proposal to change the 21M supply.
That's not something that is going to every happen and I'd put it in the same bag as the potential proposal to change the 21M supply.
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
PoS is less decentralized and less balanced. It makes the rich become richer without risk. In a PoS-Bitcoin alternate reality, MtGox would have had total control back then because of their large stake in their "cold" storage. With PoW, the miners (who, unlike stake-holders, have to constantly reinvest their reward in energy and hardware) and stakeholders/banks/exchanges are different interest groups, so the game theory behind PoW is richer, more complex, thus more robust and resilient.
In an ideal scenario in the future, mining will not be wasteful anymore. Wherever warmth is created with resistors, ASICs will replace them wherever appropriate (doesn't even have to be the latest generation). Think toasters, waterbeds, etc. So people won't mine for profit, but just to get some crypto-coins back from their energy expenses. Mining data centers won't be profitable anymore and will disappear. Wide decentralization will be achieved.
Exactly. PoS is not that good and there were plenty enough discussions about it in the past. We should have actually moved way past this point and be discussing something that is actually beneficial. PoS is less decentralized and less balanced. It makes the rich become richer without risk. In a PoS-Bitcoin alternate reality, MtGox would have had total control back then because of their large stake in their "cold" storage. With PoW, the miners (who, unlike stake-holders, have to constantly reinvest their reward in energy and hardware) and stakeholders/banks/exchanges are different interest groups, so the game theory behind PoW is richer, more complex, thus more robust and resilient.
In an ideal scenario in the future, mining will not be wasteful anymore. Wherever warmth is created with resistors, ASICs will replace them wherever appropriate (doesn't even have to be the latest generation). Think toasters, waterbeds, etc. So people won't mine for profit, but just to get some crypto-coins back from their energy expenses. Mining data centers won't be profitable anymore and will disappear. Wide decentralization will be achieved.
July 01, 2015, 02:25:37 AM
The discussion on this topic is durable, maybe the cryptography currency based on these two design philosophy will come to long-term co-existence, and the dispute between them will keep on going.
Can you show any further development as evidence of the durability of this discussion?Compare to POW, the mode of POS is younger. It hasn’t been 2 years since the innovation of Peercoin. Compare to the maturer mode of POW，POS is still on the way of improvement. These development orientation mainly stands on safety and application. The mode of POS is better than POW on safety, but the advantage of POS could be taken fully only by attracting enough holders for mining. The other development way of POS is the development of functions of second generation of coins. Peershares, the functions of second generation of Peercoin has opened private beta.
July 01, 2015, 01:38:54 AM
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
PoS is less decentralized and less balanced. It makes the rich become richer without risk. In a PoS-Bitcoin alternate reality, MtGox would have had total control back then because of their large stake in their "cold" storage. With PoW, the miners (who, unlike stake-holders, have to constantly reinvest their reward in energy and hardware) and stakeholders/banks/exchanges are different interest groups, so the game theory behind PoW is richer, more complex, thus more robust and resilient.
In an ideal scenario in the future, mining will not be wasteful anymore. Wherever warmth is created with resistors, ASICs will replace them wherever appropriate (doesn't even have to be the latest generation). Think toasters, waterbeds, etc. So people won't mine for profit, but just to get some crypto-coins back from their energy expenses. Mining data centers won't be profitable anymore and will disappear. Wide decentralization will be achieved.
PoS is less decentralized and less balanced. It makes the rich become richer without risk. In a PoS-Bitcoin alternate reality, MtGox would have had total control back then because of their large stake in their "cold" storage. With PoW, the miners (who, unlike stake-holders, have to constantly reinvest their reward in energy and hardware) and stakeholders/banks/exchanges are different interest groups, so the game theory behind PoW is richer, more complex, thus more robust and resilient.
In an ideal scenario in the future, mining will not be wasteful anymore. Wherever warmth is created with resistors, ASICs will replace them wherever appropriate (doesn't even have to be the latest generation). Think toasters, waterbeds, etc. So people won't mine for profit, but just to get some crypto-coins back from their energy expenses. Mining data centers won't be profitable anymore and will disappear. Wide decentralization will be achieved.
Yes, POS mines by the ages of coins, and it seems safe and trustful, however, the safe things may not be progressive. It is wrong to judge the economic or non-economic nature by the inner nature of the capitals or other foreign elements. The progress of human society should not only concern the inner nature or foreign elements only, that is, we could not evaluate if POS conforms to the human progress just by its safety and energy conservation for so called enhancing productivity.
legendary
Activity: 1302
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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
June 30, 2015, 09:36:38 AM
To this date, I have not seen a satisfactory debunking
of the "nothing at stake/costless simulation" issue,
which is the fundamental problem with Proof of Stake.
Polestra's latest paper:
https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf
of the "nothing at stake/costless simulation" issue,
which is the fundamental problem with Proof of Stake.
Polestra's latest paper:
https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf
June 30, 2015, 06:53:00 AM
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
PoS is less decentralized and less balanced. It makes the rich become richer without risk. In a PoS-Bitcoin alternate reality, MtGox would have had total control back then because of their large stake in their "cold" storage. With PoW, the miners (who, unlike stake-holders, have to constantly reinvest their reward in energy and hardware) and stakeholders/banks/exchanges are different interest groups, so the game theory behind PoW is richer, more complex, thus more robust and resilient.
In an ideal scenario in the future, mining will not be wasteful anymore. Wherever warmth is created with resistors, ASICs will replace them wherever appropriate (doesn't even have to be the latest generation). Think toasters, waterbeds, etc. So people won't mine for profit, but just to get some crypto-coins back from their energy expenses. Mining data centers won't be profitable anymore and will disappear. Wide decentralization will be achieved.
PoS is less decentralized and less balanced. It makes the rich become richer without risk. In a PoS-Bitcoin alternate reality, MtGox would have had total control back then because of their large stake in their "cold" storage. With PoW, the miners (who, unlike stake-holders, have to constantly reinvest their reward in energy and hardware) and stakeholders/banks/exchanges are different interest groups, so the game theory behind PoW is richer, more complex, thus more robust and resilient.
In an ideal scenario in the future, mining will not be wasteful anymore. Wherever warmth is created with resistors, ASICs will replace them wherever appropriate (doesn't even have to be the latest generation). Think toasters, waterbeds, etc. So people won't mine for profit, but just to get some crypto-coins back from their energy expenses. Mining data centers won't be profitable anymore and will disappear. Wide decentralization will be achieved.
June 30, 2015, 05:52:28 AM
The discussion on this topic is durable, maybe the cryptography currency based on these two design philosophy will come to long-term co-existence, and the dispute between them will keep on going.
Can you show any further development as evidence of the durability of this discussion? 
June 30, 2015, 05:52:09 AM
actually pos, do use a bit of the power of your cpu, so it's not actually energy free, and zero consumption, like many think...
try for example to run many pos coins and you will notice it immediately
also i would not say that POW energy is a wasted energy, if it is used to create something like bitcoin, which could have an immense value in the future and revolutionize the whole economic system
try for example to run many pos coins and you will notice it immediately
also i would not say that POW energy is a wasted energy, if it is used to create something like bitcoin, which could have an immense value in the future and revolutionize the whole economic system
June 30, 2015, 04:07:57 AM
POW（Proof of Work) means that it depends on the amount of work of mining, so the better the nature of the computer, the more the mines you will get. POS（Proof of Stake) distribute the interests according to the amount and time that you are holding. Under the mode of POS, your income from mining is in direct proportion to the ages of your coins, but no any relationship with the nature of your computer. POW or POS? The discussion on this topic is durable, maybe the cryptography currency based on these two design philosophy will come to long-term co-existence, and the dispute between them will keep on going.
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