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Topic: Fuck You BFL#2 - page 2. (Read 2550 times)

hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
Vertrau in Gott
August 18, 2013, 02:19:19 PM
#14
Hat Bitfury einen 28nm Prozess?! Nein!

BFL hatte mit den FPGAs Probleme, BFL hatte mit 65nm noch grössere Probleme und die Herausforderungen bei 28nm sind nochmal ganz andere und vor allem viel komplexer als bei 65nm und 45nm.


Bei dem 65nm hatten sie allerdings noch absolut keine Erfahrung mit Chipherstellern etc. Jetzt dürfte ja einiges an Erfahrung da sein und typische Fehler werden nicht wiederholt.
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1253
August 18, 2013, 02:18:13 PM
#13
Hat Bitfury einen 28nm Prozess?! Nein!

BFL hatte mit den FPGAs Probleme, BFL hatte mit 65nm noch grössere Probleme und die Herausforderungen bei 28nm sind nochmal ganz andere und vor allem viel komplexer als bei 65nm und 45nm.

Egal, warten wir ab ob, dieses Jahr irgendeiner einen 28nm SHA2 ASIC fürs Bitcoin Hashing herausbringt. Ich sage: Nein!
legendary
Activity: 1270
Merit: 1000
August 18, 2013, 12:50:56 PM
#12
Haha. Die Fabs, die das können kann man an einer Hand abzählen. Die werden garantiert nicht sagen, sorry NVIDIA für euch machen wir gerade keine Runs mehr, weil irgend eine Minifirma als Entwicklungspartner von BFL ein paar Runs braucht.

Und wenn Du es noch 100 mal wiederholst, es wird dadurch nicht wahrer. Zum ersten ist TMSC schone eine Weile nicht mehr die einzige Fab die 28 nm kann, zum zweiten gibts genügend Wiederverkäufer die Fertigungskapazitäten für ASICs eingekauft haben.

Daneben hat 22-28nm ein paar "kleinere" Herausforderungen, die weder der Entwicklungspartner von BFL (noch ORSoC) so schnell auf die Reihe bekommen dürften, wenn es um Standard Cell geht.

Reicht doch schon wenn irgendwer die Chips  so gut wie bitfury die ASICs hinbekommt, zwar  bei weitem nicht so gut wie gehofft aber immer noch deutlich besser als 'die anderen'. Dabei hat BFL mit ihrem Entwicklungspartner gezeigt das schon 65 nm unmöglich  hinzubekommen sind. Und  know how kann man auch kaufen, oder glaubst Du jewede Firma die MiningASICs rausbringen will hat aus den bisherigen Erfahrungen nicht gelernt?
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1253
August 18, 2013, 07:19:01 AM
#11
...
28 nm Lieferzeitpunkt November Dezember
...

Haha. Die Fabs, die das können kann man an einer Hand abzählen. Die werden garantiert nicht sagen, sorry NVIDIA für euch machen wir gerade keine Runs mehr, weil irgend eine Minifirma als Entwicklungspartner von BFL ein paar Runs braucht.

Daneben hat 22-28nm ein paar "kleinere" Herausforderungen, die weder der Entwicklungspartner von BFL (noch ORSoC) so schnell auf die Reihe bekommen dürften, wenn es um Standard Cell geht.
newbie
Activity: 57
Merit: 0
August 18, 2013, 06:19:33 AM
#10

Quote
Our facility in Kansas has the largest production capacity of all Bitcoin hardware manufacturers.
Klar, 3 stellig pro Tag? Man munkelt sogar von Gabelstaplern


In einem Interview auf 'thegenesisblock.com' spricht ButterflyLabs von ca. 300 Einheit pro Tag.
Man muss nur fest dran glauben  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 522
Merit: 500
Hasta la Bitcoin siempre!
August 17, 2013, 08:56:44 PM
#9
Das mit dem Form Factor ist auch gut.
Josh ist ein echter Spaßvogel.  Cheesy

Quote
Form Factor:

Butterfly Labs: Professional and expandable card design
The Competition: Bulky Case design


buttcoins Review zum Mini Rig: http://buttcoin.org/butterfly-labs-mini-rig-is-a-huge-broken-unstable-piece-of-shit
hero member
Activity: 503
Merit: 502
August 17, 2013, 08:03:57 PM
#8

Also auf gut deutsch brauchen sie mal wieder neues Geld Cheesy


irgendjemand muss ja die Produktionskosten der offenen Bestellungen bezahlen  Roll Eyes
yxt
legendary
Activity: 3528
Merit: 1116
August 17, 2013, 07:29:02 PM
#7
unglaublich

EDIT:

Also auf gut deutsch brauchen sie mal wieder neues Geld Cheesy

Eh mit welcher Dreistigkeit die Lügen:
http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/

Quote
We are pioneers of the industry - having manufactured the first commercial Bitcoin mining hardware.
Wann sind die ersten FPGAs versendet worden?


Quote
Butterfly Labs has shipped more ASIC products than all competitors combined
Muhahah, aber natürlich doch


Quote
Our facility in Kansas has the largest production capacity of all Bitcoin hardware manufacturers.
Klar, 3 stellig pro Tag? Man munkelt sogar von Gabelstaplern

legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1098
An AA rated Bandoneonista
August 17, 2013, 07:07:46 PM
#6
Mal schauen, ob sich das Topic noch ändert. Aber danach aussehen tut es gerade eher nicht. Smiley
hero member
Activity: 1484
Merit: 500
Across The Universe
August 17, 2013, 06:49:42 PM
#5
Oder länger Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
August 17, 2013, 06:46:54 PM
#4
LOL.

Gut, war ja auch langweilig, jetzt wo es mit den Lieferungen einigermaßen läuft.

Bin mal gespannt ob dieser Thread auch so lang wird.
legendary
Activity: 2955
Merit: 1049
August 17, 2013, 06:42:00 PM
#3
naja wenn ich wieder 12 Monate von Bestellung/Bezahlung warten muss/darf/kann...
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
August 17, 2013, 06:39:49 PM
#2
Bald wird aus der Larve ein richtiger Schmetterling...oder auch nicht und er verkümmert oder wird von einem Vogel gefressen...
hero member
Activity: 1484
Merit: 500
Across The Universe
August 17, 2013, 06:35:39 PM
#1
Also

BFL zaubert ein neues Produkt aus dem Hut


600 Ghash 28 nm Lieferzeitpunkt November Dezember

alte Order werden inn zahlung genommen
Hosting kostet 1200 $



Für die Nachwelt FAQ des neuen Produktes !

Quote
Hey you Jerks, what are you doing announcing 28nm gear while you're still shipping 65nm? I want my Single!
A

65nm products are shipping in great volume, but will be out of production long before the first 28nm Monarch cards are through development and ready to be shipped.  If you haven't already received your 65nm product, you will very shortly.  The ASIC engineering team finished 65nm development long ago and turned it over to production.  Chip development is traditionally a 12 month process, so ASIC engineering teams have to be forward thinking in order to provide the best technology to the market.  28nm development began a long time ago.  Please don't think that this means production of your singles ever lost a second of focus.  They are different teams and we've put enormous resources into building our supply chain & production capacity.  Nothing is more important than shipping your order as fast as possible.

QCan I transfer my existing order into a 28nm Monarch card ?
A

Yes.

You can apply the purchase price of any undelivered product towards a 28nm product by paying a 10% transfer fee.  That will close out your old order and credit your account towards the purchase of a 28nm Monarch pre-order.  However, we do recommend you keep your remaining 65nm orders and take delivery because you'll get your mining gear much sooner.  28nm products won't begin shipping til year end and the difficulty is expected to be much higher at that time.  It's also worth pointing out that FPGA era products were still very valuable well into ASIC generation rollout, and the relative power difference between 65nm and 28nm is much much less.

 

To see how much transfer value you have, log into your account dashboard and follow the transfer instructions if you would like to jump Queue.

QCan you host these for me?
A

Yes.

Cloud hosted mining makes it all easy.  Although Monarch cards have a USB plug so you can run them outside as a computer peripheral if you want, they've been design optimized for PCIe use in rack mount data center servers, or any standard ATX motherboard.

 

To make it easy, Butterfly Labs has arranged to provide cloud hosting of your Monarch cards.  Six or Twelve month hosting terms can be purchased.  Your cloud hosted miner will be set up and made accessible to you online.  All maintenance, hosting, power & software setup will be provided.  All you need to do is configure your bitcoin wallet address and hit 'go'.

QWill the power & performance really be that good? What makes you so sure you'll deliver when you say you will?
A

BFL began in 2011 with the announcement of it's first FPGA bitcoin miner, the now famous 'Single'.  The delivered speed was in range of expectations, but the power consumption was greater than design simulation indicated.  With that experience under our belt, we set out to raise the bar again with our second generation FPGA miner (The original Mini Rig).  That chip was on target and perfectly matched it's expected speed and power consumption.  Why were we so accurate?   ...because we were able to baseline our development models with the results of the first generation FPGA chip.

 

With our first generation ASIC chip, we delivered the speed promised, but again the power consumption was greater than simulations indicated.  That caused delay for re-engineering the PCB to accommodate additional power.  That 65nm ASIC is now powering the majority of the bitcoin network.  It's a very good chip and we've gained valuable real life test data to baseline our design models for our new 28nm chip.  As with our FPGA 2nd generation, the 2nd generation ASIC performance can be expected to be extreemly accurate.  The value of a 2nd generation chip based on proven technology can't be overstated.

 

The bottom line is that BFL is the only 28nm chip manufacturer on it's 2nd generation ASIC.  If you want to lower your risk profile at 28nm, there's only one choice.

QWhy should I place my Pre-Order with Butterfly Labs?
A

Butterfly Labs is the pioneer and has remained the leader of the bitcoin mining hardware industry since 2011.  We are the only 28nm hardware manufacturer with a proven ASIC design.  We have 45 employees, a mature production capacity and supply chain.   Our 28nm competitors have never deliverd a single product.  Their manufacturing, supply chain and engineering are all back of the napkin ideas.

 

    Shipped more ASIC than all competitors combined
    2nd generation ASIC
    4th generation bitcoin processor
    Largest production capacity
    45 employees strong with an experienced management team.

QWhen do the 28nm Monarch cards ship?
A

We've been in hard development for approximately six months.  We're now we're in the final stage of the process which is wafer start at the foundry.  However, we aren't shipping anytime soon.  This is a Pre-Order product, so if you're uncomfortable waiting an indeterminate length of time for the final phase of development, do NOT pre-order this product.

With that in mind, our current schedule is on track for shippments towards end of year. 

Here are the timeline milestones:

    Tapeout (Initialization of wafer production) . 
    Foundry production takes 10 weeks.
    Bumping, Slicing & BGA packaging takes approximately 2 weeks.
    Initial shipments begin and ramp up to full capacity over the following 3 weeks.

Since this is our 2nd generation ASIC chip, we're largely free of risk from the pitfalls normally associated with a new chip design.  Testing systems, Bumping masks, Substrates & under fill engineering are all carryovers from our proven design so they're complete and ready for high volume production once the wafers are ready.  The importance of this can't be overstated when considering schedule risk & reliability
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