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Topic: [FUD] Mt.Gox SCAM? $38million disappeared. Large sums affected. (Read 3030 times)

sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252

Thanks that was helpful ... hope a way is thought out with the transaction malleability problem.

@techguy saw the reply above .. could not comment earlier .. yea all those posts he (OP) posted just completely make such a situation worse.

Hope the markets get back up.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 501
Cypherpunk and full-time CryptoAnarchist

You should jump into to the IRC for more in depth information.

Channel - #bitcoin-dev
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
Mtgox has released an update about the technical glitch - https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html

Quote
Dear MtGox Customers and Bitcoiners,

As you are aware, the MtGox team has been working hard to address an issue with the way that bitcoin withdrawals are processed. By "bitcoin withdrawal" we are referring to transactions from a MtGox bitcoin wallet to an external bitcoin address. Bitcoin transactions to any MtGox bitcoin address, and currency withdrawals (Yen, Euro, etc) are not affected by this issue.

The problem we have identified is not limited to MtGox, and affects all transactions where Bitcoins are being sent to a third party. We believe that the changes required for addressing this issue will be positive over the long term for the whole community. As a result we took the necessary action of suspending bitcoin withdrawals until this technical issue has been resolved.


Addressing Transaction Malleability
MtGox has detected unusual activity on its Bitcoin wallets and performed investigations during the past weeks. This confirmed the presence of transactions which need to be examined more closely.


Non-technical Explanation:
A bug in the bitcoin software makes it possible for someone to use the Bitcoin network to alter transaction details to make it seem like a sending of bitcoins to a bitcoin wallet did not occur when in fact it did occur. Since the transaction appears as if it has not proceeded correctly, the bitcoins may be resent. MtGox is working with the Bitcoin core development team and others to mitigate this issue.


Technical Explanation:
Bitcoin transactions are subject to a design issue that has been largely ignored, while known to at least a part of the Bitcoin core developers and mentioned on the BitcoinTalk forums. This defect, known as "transaction malleability" makes it possible for a third party to alter the hash of any freshly issued transaction without invalidating the signature, hence resulting in a similar transaction under a different hash. Of course only one of the two transactions can be validated. However, if the party who altered the transaction is fast enough, for example with a direct connection to different mining pools, or has even a small amount of mining power, it can easily cause the transaction hash alteration to be committed to the blockchain.

The bitcoin api "sendtoaddress" broadly used to send bitcoins to a given bitcoin address will return a transaction hash as a way to track the transaction's insertion in the blockchain.
Most wallet and exchange services will keep a record of this said hash in order to be able to respond to users should they inquire about their transaction. It is likely that these services will assume the transaction was not sent if it doesn't appear in the blockchain with the original hash and have currently no means to recognize the alternative transactions as theirs in an efficient way.

This means that an individual could request bitcoins from an exchange or wallet service, alter the resulting transaction's hash before inclusion in the blockchain, then contact the issuing service while claiming the transaction did not proceed. If the alteration fails, the user can simply send the bitcoins back and try again until successful.

We believe this can be addressed by using a different hash for transaction tracking purposes. While the network will continue to use the current hash for the purpose of inclusion in each block's Merkle Tree, the new hash's purpose will be to track a given transaction and can be computed and indexed by hashing the exact signed string via SHA256 (in the same way transactions are currently hashed).

This new transaction hash will allow signing parties to keep track of any transaction they have signed and can easily be computed, even for past transactions.

We have discussed this solution with the Bitcoin core developers and will allow Bitcoin withdrawals again once it has been approved and standardized.

In the meantime, exchanges and wallet services - and any service sending coins directly to third parties - should be extremely careful with anyone claiming their transaction did not go through.

Note that this will also affect any other crypto-currency using the same transaction scheme as Bitcoin.


Conclusion
To put things in perspective, it's important to remember that Bitcoin is a very new technology and still very much in its early stages. What MtGox and the Bitcoin community have experienced in the past year has been an incredible and exciting challenge, and there is still much to do to further improve.

MtGox will resume bitcoin withdrawals to outside wallets once the issue outlined above has been properly addressed in a manner that will best serve our customers.

More information on the status of this issue will be released as soon as possible.

We thank you for taking the time to read this, and especially for your patience.

Best Regards,
MtGox Team

sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
I do not completely agree if they say it is due to technical issue. No matter what kind of technical issue is, it cannot be 'that' big that needs many days for them to sort out and process btc withdrawals. there should be something else in the background.

Given the high credibility of Mt Gox, We can't rule out their version of technical issues. There are some technical glitches like Architecture flaws, Performance/scalability, Security issues which are hard to find and fix them. In most cases, the fix for critical bugs would be either 1 or 2 lines of code change and it takes just 5 minutes to fix them but identifying the problem may take from days to weeks.

See the following comment from a CSO. I will hope they will come out clean on this by monday. It will put a FULLSTOP to all FUD Smiley
===
One prominent technical member of the bitcoin community thinks he knows what’s behind the current withdrawal freeze. Andreas Antonopoulos, who recently joined Blockchain.info as chief security officer, says he has studied exchange technologies over the past 15 years. His verdict on Gox’s withdrawal freeze, as an outsider, is scathing:

    “Mt. Gox has built an exchange based on a hodgepodge of technologies that are really not suitable for running an exchange. And it’s being run by people who don’t really have experience building and operating scalable systems.”

Antonopoulos outlined what he believes to be the technical reasons behind the Gox freeze. The root of the problem lies in its decision to use a version of the bitcoin client it customised itself, rather than the standard client. As a result, Gox handles the protocol with some discrepancies.

One of those discrepancies, as Antonopoulos understands it, is the way transactions are propagated through the network. A miner on Gox, for example, will prematurely be credited for a new block before the network has a chance to confirm the transaction. As a result, when the transaction hits the bitcoin network to be corroborated, it is rejected. Gox’s solution is to cancel the initial transaction and resubmit it until it is approved.

“This is like putting a Band-Aid on the problem. Gox should not be generating non-standard transactions in the first place. Band-Aids like this will further exacerbate scalability problems,” Antonopoulos said.

In the case of the mining example, the cancelled and resubmitted transactions cause delays in fulfilling withdrawal requests within Gox. This doesn’t necessarily cause huge problems unless the system is under pressure from an external factor, like a spike in withdrawal requests, for example.

“When transactions increase, then there are more delayed transactions, which can cause a panic. It just snowballs,” Antonopoulos said.
===
legendary
Activity: 1258
Merit: 1001
I do not completely agree if they say it is due to technical issue. No matter what kind of technical issue is, it cannot be 'that' big that needs many days for them to sort out and process btc withdrawals. there should be something else in the background.
full member
Activity: 197
Merit: 101
live and learn
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
A lot of bad news for bitcoins this week.. i think we are going back to the $32 (2011 valuation) now.

Gox has OFFICIALLY stopped all withdrawals. It is going to close. I am sure.

Update : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fud-russia-china-apple-ban-bitcoins-gox-closing-is-this-the-end-453230

Your post in the given link is spreading more FUD ... most of them are not true ... none of the countries there have banned it. Warnings are absolutely normal and expected. I'd suggest removing it in all honesty. Some of them are even dated back and are old news. What you have just done is club them together and create more panic. Bravo !!

Most of the info mentioned in that FUD link Wink references to oudated news.

There is a good reply from 'GAML' to above post - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5005232
Quoting here for reference.

Quote
America are not banning BTC.  Why post a link from 2013?  The FBI are getting ready to sell the haul they got from silk road via an auction on the US Marshall's website.  Congress held 2 hearing on bitcoin and are in favor of supporting it. And the IRS are now allowing people to pay their tax in BTC http://www.forbes.com/sites/benkepes/2014/01/15/bitcoin-breaks-out-you-can-now-pay-the-irs-in-cryptocurrency/

Is this the end?  No it just means it is going to get taxed and at some point users and business who deal in / trade or accept will have to conform to some level of regulation.

Germany has already ruled that Bitcoin is to recognized as "private money for legal and tax purposes" http://rt.com/news/bitcoin-germany-recognize-currency-641/

The countries that are banning it have ulterior motives.  China and Russia - Communism - Not a surprise it was banned - India, Russia, China and other 3rd world countries such as Indonesia - Preservation of slave wages and economic enslavement of their workforce.  Do you really think their governments want the wage slaves that are booming their economy to give up working for next to nothing and making significant amounts of money mining alt coins and trading BTC.  FACT: One of the Chinese Governments primary goals is to become the worlds number 1 industrial superpower within the next 20 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_Bitcoin  Check this out then look on credible financial news websites such as Forbes or the governments websites in the country of choice to see the present position.

In regards democratic nations anything they can give a legal status too, tax and regulate in some form or another is going to be welcomed with open arms because of the keyword TAX.  We all know how capitalist democratic governments love tax! tax! tax! and will tax the fuck out of anything they can.  The UK is assessing the legal status of BTC right now -
The Financial Times 19th Jan - UK reviews Bitcoin tax as global regulators seek to cash in http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2d894c9e-812f-11e3-95aa-00144feab7de.html#axzz2sfjjHmZw

If it is ruled money as in Germany it is going to get hit with income tax, if it ruled as a security or a commodity it is going to get hit with capital gains tax.  I will bet you the 150 Karmacoins I own that the UK government will not ban Bitcoin.  They will want to rub themselves off over it and TAX IT.

Ebay are considering accepting Bitcoin payments - http://www.cnbc.com/id/101356642

Stay calm and hold onto your BTC.  If you want to flood the market with panic selling and debase the currency please do because I will be buying.  The headline will read - Forbes.com "Noob alt coin miner with shitty rig goes from broke to a million after panic selling of Bitcoin"  Cheesy

The news is a good source of information but don't pay to much attention to it unless it is highly credible and cites it's sources.  Pay attention to what governments and academics are saying http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/jamiebartlett/100011868/one-day-amazon-will-accept-bitcoins-thats-when-central-banks-and-governments-get-nervous/

Did the legendary economist Milton Friedman predict the future back in 1999?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2mdYX1nF_Y Have a look and see. 

Some of the economists and lawmakers are worth listening to but there are also a lot that are talking shit; probably taking bribes from the Federal Reserve Bank who are most likely shitting their pants at the moment and thinking of ways to debase the currency and kill it.  The Fed are probably buying millions of dollars worth of bitcoin so they can flood the market at a time of their choosing in an attempt to debase it.  It was probably the Fed buying when it bombed to $500 average across the markets after China banned it.  Inflate the currency then debase it when you want it to fail.  That is economic warfare tactics.

Don't forget that the majority of news is often badly researched trash journalism, often fails to provide sources of their data and make sweeping uninformed statements.  Then are stations like Fox who report whatever the NWO and Rupert Murdoch want them to.  Pay attention to credible and well research journalism that provides its sources.  Whoever controls the media controls public opinion and Rupert Murdoch controls a hell of a lot of the news.

Wall street journal, Forbes, The Financial Times, ect.  (and that includes the big credible sources in your own countries that I am not aware of)

Another reason legal status, tax status and some form of regulation is coming is because we all know that BTC is already being used by criminal elements for criminal purposes.  You could not have put Al Capone in prison for tax evasion if he was dealing in bitcoin Grin


full member
Activity: 214
Merit: 100
Pump and Dump in a big scale
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
Mt Gox is no longer the highest priced exchange.

http://coinsecure.in/

Nice transition.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
I like that [FUD] tag on the link posted above.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252
That is how you short Bitcoin Smiley

Regrads

Lol yea .. but isn't Gox craziness enough for one day ?
legendary
Activity: 1105
Merit: 1001
https://www.zebpay.com
That is how you short Bitcoin Smiley

Regrads
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252
A lot of bad news for bitcoins this week.. i think we are going back to the $32 (2011 valuation) now.

Gox has OFFICIALLY stopped all withdrawals. It is going to close. I am sure.

Update : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fud-russia-china-apple-ban-bitcoins-gox-closing-is-this-the-end-453230

Your post in the given link is spreading more FUD ... most of them are not true ... none of the countries there have banned it. Warnings are absolutely normal and expected. I'd suggest removing it in all honesty. Some of them are even dated back and are old news. What you have just done is club them together and create more panic. Bravo !!
sr. member
Activity: 435
Merit: 250
A lot of bad news for bitcoins this week.. i think we are going back to the $32 (2011 valuation) now.

Gox has OFFICIALLY stopped all withdrawals. It is going to close. I am sure.

Update : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fud-russia-china-apple-ban-bitcoins-gox-closing-is-this-the-end-453230
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252
Looks like this is not over as yet and is going to drag through the weekend.

Holy crap its taking everything down .... I thought worst was over ... looks like we all got GOXXED !!

China looks stable ... wonder if its gonna lead the way again.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1000
Landscaping Bitcoin for India!
Looks like this is not over as yet and is going to drag through the weekend.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252
No man its not a "delay".. they are in deep trouble. A lot of mtgox's money has been confuscated by the authorities in the past so they are trying to keep themselves afloat by "delaying" peoples' bitcoins and fiat.

I tried withdrawing 15btc today morning and its "delayed" .. others have 50btc+ stuck with them now. its a blackhole.

Ah ok ... so thats why people settling in with selling their "virtual" btc for cash and crashing Gox .. coz their "real" btc is missing .. now i get it. Thanks.
sr. member
Activity: 435
Merit: 250
No man its not a "delay".. they are in deep trouble. A lot of mtgox's money has been confuscated by the authorities in the past so they are trying to keep themselves afloat by "delaying" peoples' bitcoins and fiat.

I tried withdrawing 15btc today morning and its "delayed" .. others have 50btc+ stuck with them now. its a blackhole.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 252
Nothing "disappeared" it was only delay in withdrawals isn't it ?
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