[FULFILLED!] 10,000 BTC loan - LONG TERM

howzar

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: yochdog on March 20, 2014, 03:50:00 PM

Quote from: howzar on March 20, 2014, 03:46:08 PM

Quote from: yochdog on March 20, 2014, 03:24:16 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on March 20, 2014, 12:20:32 PM

Out of curiosity: any updates?

The loan is paid through the end of this year.....and over half of the contracted principal payments have been made.

Looking back, it has been a pretty awful deal for both me and the lender.

The lender should let you keep what 10k btc was worth back then in $$. Seems like you had to repay a lot more back and he made one he'll of a good deal.

The problem is that we had a collar on the loan. Basically safeguarded both of us in case BTC moved huge either direction.

The end result has been I will pay 5x the original loan in dollar terms, and he is getting back significantly less BTC.

We both lost in some capacity.

Ah I see, at least you guys were early adopters and threw around 1000s of bitcoins.

Plus im sure youve got plenty more Tongue

yochdog

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Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Quote from: howzar on March 20, 2014, 03:46:08 PM

Quote from: yochdog on March 20, 2014, 03:24:16 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on March 20, 2014, 12:20:32 PM

Out of curiosity: any updates?

The loan is paid through the end of this year.....and over half of the contracted principal payments have been made.

Looking back, it has been a pretty awful deal for both me and the lender.

The lender should let you keep what 10k btc was worth back then in $$. Seems like you had to repay a lot more back and he made one he'll of a good deal.

The problem is that we had a collar on the loan. Basically safeguarded both of us in case BTC moved huge either direction.

The end result has been I will pay 5x the original loan in dollar terms, and he is getting back significantly less BTC.

We both lost in some capacity.

howzar

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: yochdog on March 20, 2014, 03:24:16 PM

Quote from: wachtwoord on March 20, 2014, 12:20:32 PM

Out of curiosity: any updates?

The loan is paid through the end of this year.....and over half of the contracted principal payments have been made.

Looking back, it has been a pretty awful deal for both me and the lender.

The lender should let you keep what 10k btc was worth back then in $$. Seems like you had to repay a lot more back and he made one he'll of a good deal.

yochdog

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Quote from: wachtwoord on March 20, 2014, 12:20:32 PM

Out of curiosity: any updates?

The loan is paid through the end of this year.....and over half of the contracted principal payments have been made.

Looking back, it has been a pretty awful deal for both me and the lender.

GBattaglia

hero member

Activity: 735

Merit: 501

Man. Think. This loan at today's rates would be $6,000,000. That is just insane.

wachtwoord

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Merit: 1125

Out of curiosity: any updates?

yochdog

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Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Another quick update.......payments have been made through January of 2014. Next installment is not due until February, 2014.

yochdog

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Merit: 1000

Another update for ya'all.

I have continued pre-paying the loan, and the next obligated payment is not until November, 2013.

yochdog

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Merit: 1000

Quote from: zebedee on November 29, 2012, 05:58:41 PM

Quote from: yochdog on November 28, 2012, 06:08:58 PM

Figured I would update this thread again to keep everyone appraised.

Payments have been made for April, June, July, and August of 2013. The next contractual payment is not due until September of 2013.

I still intend to aggressively pre-pay the loan to mitigate my exchange rate risk, which has thus far been BRUTAL.

It could get more brutal. Borrowing in a currency you don't have equivalent assets in, or similar revenue in, is in general a bad idea. At the very least a huge gamble.

And unlike the homeowners thinking they were getting a great deal borrowing in CHF or JPY, you don't have manipulative central banks trying to rescue you.

I thought through all the pitfalls when I took the loan out, well aware of the risks.

Fortunately I earn in BTC through my 100 GH/s farm and also wrote a collar on the exchange rate into the loan contract. My pain will be limited if the price increases 250% again......but I definitely don't want it to!

zebedee

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Activity: 668

Merit: 500

Quote from: yochdog on November 28, 2012, 06:08:58 PM

Figured I would update this thread again to keep everyone appraised.

Payments have been made for April, June, July, and August of 2013. The next contractual payment is not due until September of 2013.

I still intend to aggressively pre-pay the loan to mitigate my exchange rate risk, which has thus far been BRUTAL.

It could get more brutal. Borrowing in a currency you don't have equivalent assets in, or similar revenue in, is in general a bad idea. At the very least a huge gamble.

And unlike the homeowners thinking they were getting a great deal borrowing in CHF or JPY, you don't have manipulative central banks trying to rescue you.

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Well this has been a pretty entertaining read.

PS. Buy options? You'd be in a better position than most seeing how you're already short BTC.

yochdog

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Figured I would update this thread again to keep everyone appraised.

Payments have been made for April, June, July, and August of 2013. The next contractual payment is not due until September of 2013.

I still intend to aggressively pre-pay the loan to mitigate my exchange rate risk, which has thus far been BRUTAL.

yochdog

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Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Quote from: dentldir on October 10, 2012, 03:50:57 PM

Quote from: yochdog on October 10, 2012, 10:41:18 AM

I do, however, intend to continue aggressively pre-paying the loan in order to decrease the exchange rate risk that has already hurt me pretty good.

Call options on Bitcoin would be great if the legal framework for them wasn't so murky.

Man, I think that every day.

I thought I had it covered with Bitcoinica, and, well.....we saw how that ended. I am still waiting for my BTC back.......

dentldir

sr. member

Activity: 333

Merit: 250

Quote from: yochdog on October 10, 2012, 10:41:18 AM

I do, however, intend to continue aggressively pre-paying the loan in order to decrease the exchange rate risk that has already hurt me pretty good.

Call options on Bitcoin would be great if the legal framework for them wasn't so murky.

yochdog

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Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Another update for those following this loan with piqued interest:

The January, February, and March payments have been made. The next payment is not due until April, 2013.

I do, however, intend to continue aggressively pre-paying the loan in order to decrease the exchange rate risk that has already hurt me pretty good.

yochdog

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Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Quote from: zebedee on September 11, 2012, 08:17:46 PM

Quote from: yochdog on September 11, 2012, 06:30:40 PM

ROFL. You just popped off to a guy who has his CFA charter, his CPA, and runs a financial firm with 500 million under management.

Obviously I don't know anything about it.

Don't want to get in a pissing match but my career was in the global bond markets. So yes, it's clear you don't know anything about it.

Of course it was. I'm sure you are a globe trotting, soros advising genius. It is apparant from your complete disregard for credit worthiness and sole focus on yield.

You must have been wildly successful given that is WAS your "career".

You people crack me up.

zebedee

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Activity: 668

Merit: 500

Quote from: yochdog on September 11, 2012, 06:30:40 PM

ROFL. You just popped off to a guy who has his CFA charter, his CPA, and runs a financial firm with 500 million under management.

Obviously I don't know anything about it.

Don't want to get in a pissing match but my career was in the global bond markets. So yes, it's clear you don't know anything about it.

yochdog

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Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Quote from: zebedee on September 11, 2012, 06:27:46 PM

Quote from: yochdog on September 11, 2012, 05:41:41 PM

Quote from: zebedee on August 30, 2012, 08:06:11 AM

Well, let's start with sovereigns. Let me introduce you to Portugal and Greece, you may have heard of them

For corporates, there are so many bonds yielding 10+% that I'd guess you don 't know much about bonds....

Many companies would kill to borrow at 10% from a bank, at any-time call.

I do not think I would call Portugal/Greek bonds a very attractive credit risk. The chances of you being de-valued are very high.

Also, most publicly traded companies can currently borrow at sub-4%......plus they get a tax write-off for the interest.

10% corporate lending would be laughed out of the building.

Of course they're not attractive. That's why the rates are high! Not sure about the meaning of "you being de-valued" is - defaulted on, sure - if you mean currency devalued, then they can only redenominate debt under domestic law. Much of it is international law, or in a foreign currency in the first place.

There are many companies borrowing at or yielding over 10% in the corporate bond market, as you would know if you knew anything about it.

ROFL. You just popped off to a guy who has his CFA charter, his CPA, and runs a financial firm with 500 million under management.

Obviously I don't know anything about it.

zebedee

donator

Activity: 668

Merit: 500

Quote from: yochdog on September 11, 2012, 05:41:41 PM

Quote from: zebedee on August 30, 2012, 08:06:11 AM

Well, let's start with sovereigns. Let me introduce you to Portugal and Greece, you may have heard of them

For corporates, there are so many bonds yielding 10+% that I'd guess you don 't know much about bonds....

Many companies would kill to borrow at 10% from a bank, at any-time call.

I do not think I would call Portugal/Greek bonds a very attractive credit risk. The chances of you being de-valued are very high.

Also, most publicly traded companies can currently borrow at sub-4%......plus they get a tax write-off for the interest.

10% corporate lending would be laughed out of the building.

Of course they're not attractive. That's why the rates are high! Not sure about the meaning of "you being de-valued" is - defaulted on, sure - if you mean currency devalued, then they can only redenominate debt under domestic law. Much of it is international law, or in a foreign currency in the first place.

There are many companies borrowing at or yielding over 10% in the corporate bond market, as you would know if you knew anything about it.

yochdog

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

Quote from: zebedee on August 30, 2012, 08:06:11 AM

Quote from: likuidxd on March 23, 2012, 09:44:08 AM

Quote from: vampire on March 23, 2012, 08:20:48 AM

The problem is that 10% is very low for a such loan. I have 7.5-7.8% bonds that are much safer investment than you.

Where did you get these bonds! I need to buy some...

Well, let's start with sovereigns. Let me introduce you to Portugal and Greece, you may have heard of them

For corporates, there are so many bonds yielding 10+% that I'd guess you don 't know much about bonds....

Many companies would kill to borrow at 10% from a bank, at any-time call.

I do not think I would call Portugal/Greek bonds a very attractive credit risk. The chances of you being de-valued are very high.

Also, most publicly traded companies can currently borrow at sub-4%......plus they get a tax write-off for the interest.

10% corporate lending would be laughed out of the building.

Topic: [FULFILLED!] 10,000 BTC loan - LONG TERM (Read 7517 times)