Topic: Funny how bitcoin controls everything (Read 1433 times)

In fact I'm going to buy some Doge and other probably next week. I'm without a job and I live in a shit of country without a decent help so... yes I'm without money.

The problem is, the "dreamers" are solid on Bitcoin. This is the "big" problem: Bitcoin solves 999/1000 of the issue... being the issue "FUCK BANKS".
Altcoins are, in the best of hypothesis, technologically better than Bitcoin. But they lack other aspects of it, and the main one is DIFFUSION.
And you can't contrast diffusion very easily, that's why I keep calling you dreamer. I would LOVE to switch to an altcoin faster than Bitcoin (I think Bitcoin transfer times are a weakness at the moment) but I simply know that 99% of other people wouldn't move, no matter what.
That's human brain inertia, and there's nothing I can do about it, I can just follow it and keep on guard.

About the Bitcoin price: it doesn't mean much as well.
I mean, you can pay 4$ for 1 DogeCoin, but you can't know the value of that DogeCoin after 5 years. It could be 400$. Or 4000$. Or 0.4$.
The same happens with Bitcoin: you can buy 0.01 BTC now at 3$ and after 5 years that 0.01 BTC could value 300$. Or 3000$. Or 0.3$ (I don't think so).
You don't NEED to buy one entire BTC, or 10. Just buy a fraction. It's not important.
Yes, Bitcoin has known already somewhat of a boom, but the gold era has yet to come, and it's when Bitcoin will enter mainstream.
There's still some months before this happens, maybe a couple years of movement.

Unfortunately, if you want to make a successful investment I think it will be too late to invest in Doge when it gets larger than Bitcoin,
if you trust it, better invest now.



Glad to hear that! You're right. Blockchain is the idea!



Have you ever tried to convince people to use Bitcoin, not here?
I've tried. People are afraid to be hyiped, because they understand Bitcoin is not cheap already.
People are different. Some people want to risk with more cheap version (LTC, DOGE), some people want to risk with the small coin.
That is their choice. Higher risk, higher profit. Financial markets work in the same way.

Bitcoin looks more solid, and crypto ecosystem looks more healthy, when there are good altcoins implemented into market, not BTC alone.

Have you ever spent bitcoins to buy something (not altcoins?) I've spent altcoins and it works, I'll continue buying things with them.



What if there are other 100 "dreamers"? 1000? 100,000?
Will the coin market capitalization still be $0.00000000000001 or 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 BTC?



Are you joking? Since 2011 and you have 1 BTC only and don't have more money to invest?   

I recommend VMC for You to buy.
Its really cheap now, and as You just said: You can never know...

I'm considering to buy some DogeCoin and a couple other altcoins, in small number.
They could be a good investment, you never know.
But I won't be putting on them more than 50$.
I don't care about 50$ gone, we waste so much money in useless craps already... but I want to warn those that put thousands of dollars into altcoins: read my post carefully and if you don't find a logic fallacy... save your money! Because when Bitcoin will begin to enter mainstream, and altcoins will remain at the bar... they will crumble down to zero in DAYS.

I like to get some of every coin. Even if they're garbage.

I am interested in the discussion, that's why I'm posting here.
And my opinion is that altcoins are, AT THE MOMENT, worthless crap.
I also explained WHY I think so, and there's quite some logic behind it.
Please let apart Hitler, nothing to do with LOGIC ARGUMENT.

And these are your "arguments":


Promising altcoins.
You understand?
There's no promising altcoins, because the biggest problem with cryptocurrencies AT THE MOMENT is to blow them into mainstream, and the best way to do it is to make ONE of them so well reputed that people will ADOPT it.
That is Bitcoin.
When this will happen, MAYBE some altcoins will take off as well.
MAYBE!
Because once Bitcoin will be usable everywhere, why in hell should anybody implement other cryptocurrencies into their shops???

Not because I LOOOOOVEEEEE Bitcoin or because people are stupid or because Bitcoin is technologically the best.
It's just because the world moved that way, and now Bitcoin is implemented on a certain number of shops and services, while altcoins are NOT.
If you still think altcoins are promising, while you can't spend any of them anywhere, and there IS one cryptocurrency that CAN be spent to buy goods already, and thus is getting consistent reputation, you are only victim of COGNITIVE DISSONANCE.
You refuse the reality that ONE cryptocurrency is working, while the others are redundant (at the moment).




Can you see WHO loves something?
It's you, not me.
You talk about "crypto fans" that prefer altcoins.
I don't "love" Bitcoin because it's better than the other cryptocurrencies, I love it because it's THERE and it's the best chance to FUCK BANKS that we have at hand.
AND, its position in the market is better, AND its diffusion is better, AND its reputation is better. BY FAAAAAAARR!
So I'm not going to WASTE money on something I don't think will have a future.
That's all.




Shit argument?
When all your precioussssss altcoins will value 0.0000000000000000000000000003 $ you will remember the smell of my arguments.




If tomorrow Dogecoin gets larger than Bitcoin, I'll move onto Dogecoin.
This for the simple reason that, again, if more shops will implement Dogecoin as a crypto to buy stuff, that is the best reputation a currency can have.
People that ACCEPT that currency, make reputation for that currency.
All the rest is valueless.

You can design the best currency in the world, but if people won't start to use it because they can't UNDERSTAND it, then that currency will be worthless.
And, oh, looks like I am talking about... CRYPTOCURRENCIES, BITCOIN INCLUDED!
But at least Bitcoin is pushing through!

And you don't create reputation from thin air. Bitcoin took YEARS to come where it is now. So don't expect that a coin made by a bank will boost somewhere, for several reasons. First of all because it's of a fucking bank. Second, because EVEN IF a bank would be so good at promoting their coins, there wouldn't pass much time before people would know about Bitcoin and just right move onto that, dumping the bank's coin.
See, you are just dreaming.
More innovative. More this. More that. AND with larger userbase. LOL.

From here, I hope you can understand that my ONLY point here is RATIONALITY.
I don't refuse that Bitcoin is 99% more reputable than all the other currencies put together.
I don't refuse that Bitcoin is ALREADY usable to buy stuff.
I don't refuse that Bitcoin has the largest userbase.
I don't refuse that Bitcoin is the train on which 99% of people are jumping in and WILL probably jump in in the future.
I'm just being REALISTIC, thus, RATIONAL.




Wrong again, dude.
I AM about the idea... BLOCKCHAIN IS THE IDEA!
And it's already there, working, implemented... SPREADING! In Bitcoin.

All you want to do is keeping dreaming.
You LIKE, or LOVE, more some altcoins, so you keep dreaming that one day, for some unknown reason, some of them will skyrocket to the moon.
I wish you so, but I don't TRUST it.




I only have ONE Bitcoin. Unluckily I don't have more money to invest now, but I'd surely do if I could.
And if I want to INVEST, I invest into something I think will get more value.
Not into something I WISH will get more value... even though, in this case, I also WISH Bitcoin will get more value, because I WISH banks get fucked up.

Really, dude, if you like to PLAY with altcoins, that's good, you have your fun, but if you want to INVEST money in them, in the hope they will return you something, try to be more rational.
Go read about COGNITIVE DISSONANCE and stop dreaming about your wishes.

Well, This is a bit exaggerated, In fact a rise of 35X on price over a day, At currents prices looks almost impossible. But who knows. However, It could reach that value gradually.

It's a dismissal out of hand. As someone with an economics background, you can take their habit in stride by seeing it as a useful heuristic that allows them to keep their eyes on their own ball.

In the real world, we rely on those heuristics all the time - particularly so in this specialists' age. Case in point: the banks. If I really wanted to know The Truth about the '08 crisis, I'd be going down a rabbit hole filled with such delights as "statistical arbitrage," "misuse of the Gaussian copula function," the eternal duality of "stingy lenders" vs. "predatory lenders," the precise role of the government in all this, the role and limit of the affirmative-action regime in tilting the balance towards "predatory," the extent to which top management was motivated by greed versus plain folly, the extent to which top management were bamboozled by a bunch of statistics-Ph.D hotshots whose huge huge returns were built on recklessness, the real reason why there were virtually no indictments, the extent to which the bailout were justified by the big banks "pre-paying" via shovelling huge huge dollar amounts into the U.S. treasury via corporate income taxes, and so on.

And at the end of this laborious and time-consuming trip through Big Bank Wonderland, I'd have...a monograph. A monograph fit for a relevant academic journal, which would prolly be unread in full. Unless I'm an academic in the relevant specialty hungering for a publication credit, all I'll get out of all that time spent is some "inside-baseball" knowledge which few people would be interested in.

How much easier it is for me to say "the banks were greedy" or "what else can you expect from crony capitalism"! Doing so closes my mind to The Truth, but it allows me to keep my eye on my own ball. It also saves me a large amount of time & intellectual labour.

So-called "Bitcoin maximalists" economize in a similar way. They stick to Bitcoin and dismiss all altcoins out of hand because doing so economizes their time and enables them to keep their eyes on their own ball. In a very real way, a closed mind is a time-saving and focus-economizing heuristic that's very useful in this specialists' age.

If you are really interested in discussion, not in bashing altcoins with "shit argument" (this common Bitcointalk's association fallacy)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum,
I will answer.

I'm not a technician either. Have some background in economics though.
I'm happy to be digital currency "missionary", be it Bitcoin, or Mooncoin.
I hate banks, any stupid control, centralization, unfairness of world capital distribution.

Do you realize that if anybody tells about altcoins to people not involved in cryptocurrency he anyway will need to tell about Bitcoin, first?
Any altcoin's promotion promotes Bitcoin, but not any Bitcoin promotion promotes altcoins.
Then: common people always worry they are late for Bitcoin train. Many of them would prefer promising altcoins.
Yes, I know, there may be a chance of $10,000 for 1 BTC, but there are risks also. Future is pretty unpredictable, if it is economy and finance.
It was tulips mania, dot com bubble, some investors believed investments in the manufacture of detachable collars or the horse carriages would always increase (both were significant industries in 19th century).


Can we say that people who buy Bitcoin just want to earn more usd?


Altcoins are being implemented and some crypto fans prefer altcoins to bitcoin.
There are reasons and arguments, but BTC people ignore them, and that is their decision and view, for sure,
I just don't understand why they think they are right, providing one "shit argument" only.
 

Let's imagine Citigroup, or another whale, or maybe Satoshi is back and has created A COIN with more users and higher market capitalization than Bitcoin and better network, more secure and innovative, more implemented into market etc...
Yes, I know, you cannot imagine it now, me, neither, but as a thought experiment?
The question is will you continue holding and using your beloved BTC then? If your answer yes, you can understand altcoin communities.
If no, then you just care about your profits, not about idea. You know, sometimes he, who cares more about profits, gets losses only.

People buy altercoin is just to want to earn more bitcoin, that's it.
                                                         

And that's why I think that altcoins are worthless at the moment.
You want to pay with a cryptocurrency?
Bitcoin is implemented, altcoins are not.
Very easy.

I think it is natural that bitcoins are the major basis for comparison.  This might not always be the case, but right now it is the most valuable coin, and the most widely used/accepted.  Most alt coins (including shit coins, because hey, they have at least some value) are not accepted by anyone for payment, so if you want to actually use your coins, you will need to trade them in for one of the major coins, and depending on where you want to spend them, that likely means bitcoins and not one of the other main alts.

Not everybody is a technician, programmer or so much enthusiast.
I am not a programmer, though I know quite a lot on the matter, I am not an economist, and I have many other hobbies to waste my time onto
So I only watch cryptocurrencies as an investment, and so my other hobby is try to predict their behaviour.
So, I can add all your enthusiasm and other enthusiasm of ther hundreds or thousands of boys around the planet about cryptocurrencies, and working on more altcoins, still I don't think they will make such a difference.
They would kick ass much better if they would try to promote Bitcoin... it would be SO NICE to see shop after shop after shop exposing a label BITCOIN ACCEPTED... I would so much love it.
But really, if you LIKE to be INVOLVED in the development, just do it: the only thing that matter in life is have PLEASURE out of it.

And while thinking to this, I may have come up with a method to help Bitcoin adoption, I'll keep the test up in the following month and see how it goes.
If it works, I'll post a topic here on the forum... this COULD become a BOMB to help Bitcoin adoption around the world.

Is it not boring to have Bitcoin only?
When you are talking with other members of community, when you see their efforts, for instance, one Mooncoin believer is in a real process of making MOON a currency of his native town in Italy, another member is starting a new pool.. some have been hacked, there is one dumper with several billions who permanently is trying to dump a price... and investors who buy and so defend price... well, I cannot explain it. You must feel it. It may be a great hobby and everybody can participate and be a kind of "whales".
Btw do you know that we have convinced a person, on whose code Dogecoin was based, to join Moon development?
Mooncoin users are discussing security issues, decentralization, and a lot of questions on a daily basis via PMs and e-mails and in our thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=389403.9620
I don't know another coin with so decentralized scheme of development.
If I just held Bitcoin, I never would know a lot of things regarding cryptocurrency, I would be just a person late for Bitcoin train.
Bitcoin? Well, I was buying it earlier, with leverage sometimes, but have lost money. Still I have a lot of BTC frozen on MtGOX. If they return them, I'll buy a lot of Mooncoins instead of holding BTC.

I think if BTC rises, people will be glad and will feel themselves rich and they will diversify their investments and will buy altcoins.
Altcoin market capitalizations may rise even faster, a price is a balance between supply and... you know.

Ye well if you use them and you "feel good" by having billions of coins, good for you

My discussion was in case of investment: you don't want to put 10000$ into altcoinX just to have billions of them, and find one day that Bitcoin skyrocketed and your altcoinX value is now 0.000000000004 BTC each.

But yes, I may be completely wrong in my prediction... still, if you can't find any logic fallacy, that's the best there's around at the moment, and if you can find more variables to add to the equation, I'll be glad to implement them

I was thinking of that, too, but if I hold Mooncoins why should I exchange them to LTC or BTC first, if I can buy directly for Mooncoins, to send Mooncoins from my wallet or from Cryptsy balance?

Holding 2.5 BTC instead of 1 Billion Mooncoins is boring, but it is just my feeling, don't listen to me... altcoins can be risky indeed.

Just my opinion, dude.
But why would I use Mooncoins when I have to make this machinery around to spend them, when I can use Bitcoins straight into the Amazon website?

Btw, future IS predictable. Only, far future is not. But you predict future with each your move.
Based on the variables I know now, that's my opinion

Hold your Mooncoins, maybe they will explode in the future... or maybe they will crumble to zero... who knows. Don't follow my reasoning: I am nobody.

Who knows what will be in the future? It is always unpredictable.
All I know I can buy everything on Amazon, eBay, Overstock, Groupon, to pay for domains and hosting on Namecheap etc. with Mooncoin NOW.
I'm planning a trip soon and will book rooms for Mooncoin. Seems impossible? Just visit http://mooncoin.com/market.php and try it.
Yes, via payment gateway, but anyway I can buy everything on famous internet marketplaces for Mooncoin. Overstock.com has more than 1 million of products. Amazon?
 
I love this currency, the price format, 200 bln supply, and I am a Billionaire, $676 is a worth of 1 Billion.
I love that it is faster than BTC and LTC, synchronizing and transactions are much faster.
I love the name. Bit (Lite) sounds boring.
Please tell me why should I sell my Mooncoins, if I can spend them? Sometimes I'm even paying Mooncoins to people who even haven't heard about Mooncoin, and they are happy to get it.

I feel sometimes people don't understand altcoin communities, maybe this post could explain?

Anything still possible as long as they can be proven and calculated.
For now I'm holding Stellar,bitcoin,& Doge. Although I'm not saving much but at least I can turn some profit for holding as long as possible until the time has come to sell it away

but also these kind of market keep alive the cryptoecosystem