Gambling with crypto because taxation makes no sense? - page 4.

iv4n

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Quote from: arhipova on November 24, 2023, 11:11:28 PM

If you are paying with crypto, it does not mean that you are free from taxes then. You still have to pay the taxes. Regarding tax filing by an accountant, yes it can be costly. But , I suggest you to learn this yourself. It is not something very hard and everything can be filed online following different online tutorials available on YouTube or Google.

Taxes seem to be unfair to majority of population especially in countries where politicians are very corrupt. But , if everyone decides to avoid taxes, the economy will come to a standstill.

Well, we can't avoid some taxes... but if we can skip some of them why not?! It certainly depends on where we live, some countries are just very corrupt as you say, and I live in one. There is a gray area where many things are unregulated, and if I can avoid some taxes I will for sure. I don't think that gambling with crypto is taxed at all, but what is taxed is cashing out through the banks... but I don't care about that, my cashouts were p2p, so somehow I am still anonymous.

Crypto is far better than fiat, simply we don't have to bother with some procedures and third-party services... Direct & instant/ fast deposits/withdrawals from the wallet and low fees are what make crypto better.

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Quote from: Mr.suevie on November 24, 2023, 11:56:08 PM

The regulation are certainly different as the first time I stumble upon this thread I was kind of surprised and skeptical on what to say because in all my time gambling and getting huge wins, I have come across such thing as payment of taxes or any deduction of funds by the gaming company before the funds reaches my hand except its lottery ticket you guys are talking about.

so I really don't the fact about the taxes or is it that my own country regulation system is different.

Well said mate, you've spoken my mind on this matter. This is the first time I'm hearing someone talk about tax on gambling. So do you mean that after a gambler has successful won a bet out of luck, there are agencies who will impose tax on them for winning a gamble? I mean what is this? Pardon me but it sounds really stupid to have such experience after winning. In my country taxes aren't imposed on gamblers for winning, since they bear the risk of losing or winning. However this is another reason why crypto is better than fiat, since they don't have full control over it, it will be difficult for them to impose tax on crypto gambling.

wiss19

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A great topic, tbh.

Let's be honest, we all started gambling in crypto because there was privacy and anonymity. I would have continued to bet at bet365 if crypto casinos were asking for KYC earlier in the day. My first experience I believe was Primdice where you can make an account within 5 seconds, win and withdraw without anyone asking you a single question. To be honest, I think dice sites are still pretty cool and don't ask for identity and stuff.

But the range has expanded now and it makes sense why casinos require verification and documents because they are answerable to the license providers.

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Quote from: alani123 on November 24, 2023, 06:04:51 PM

Moreover, in many countries, filling out the forms to get taxed can be a nightmare. For winning 100$ for example, you will have to pay a big chunk of it to an accountant to find how it should be taxed. Bureaucracy is a whole other debacle in and of itself.

I'd imagine that many people actually chose to gamble with crypto to avoid these restrictions and bureaucratic procedures. It really makes no sense to go through all these troubles to tax a small winning amount. Still if someone happened to win a large amount on a small bet by chance, I'd imagine some people would want to tax it so they can spend it in the real economy as fast as possible.

Different countries have unique policies on gambling tax, hence it is important to always check these laws before engaging in gambling. In some countries, the casinos are mandated by the law to deduct taxes from every win, so the government don't expect gamblers to report or pay any tax. In some other advanced nations filling tax reports is simple because it is automated which means you don't have to go through any cumbersome bureaucratic process.

Crypto gambling in my country is unregulated which means the government has no control over them. Hence, I would agree that it could be a means to invade tax but that's not my intention. Crypto gambling is faster, safer, technically advanced and protects privacy, that's why I prefer it.

Quote from: Oshosondy on November 24, 2023, 06:22:18 PM

It would be better if the government want to tax gamblers, the government also supposed to pay the percentage taxed of the amount the gamblers are losing. I mean assuming the tax is 10%, if gamblers lose money, government also supposed to pay 10% to the gamblers of the amount they lose. This will make taxing gamblers justifiable.

In some countries, gamblers can fill the amount of losses they incur on gambling and it will be deducted from the tax they are expected to pay. But the gambler has to prove his losses and win with verifiable records. This is ideal because just as in other ventures gambling involves income and expenditure, therefore gamblers shouldn't bear the losses while the government enjoy the wins.

Mr.suevie

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Quote from: michellee on November 24, 2023, 11:34:03 PM

But as for gambling at online casinos, I don't know because I've never won. But for crypto casinos, the winner doesn't pay any taxes because the winnings are in crypto unless he converts his crypto to fiat and sends the money to his bank account. But maybe the regulations regarding gambling tax in each country are different, so the implementation is also clearly different.

The regulation are certainly different as the first time I stumble upon this thread I was kind of surprised and skeptical on what to say because in all my time gambling and getting huge wins, I have come across such thing as payment of taxes or any deduction of funds by the gaming company before the funds reaches my hand except its lottery ticket you guys are talking about.

I use to bet sometimes on local casino here in my place and I can I have had my own fair winning and everytime , immediately the funds is been paid to my account direct and by this I mean fiat casino.

Recently there was this case of a friend who we taught at the same school together acquiring a massive win of about 11million naira which is equivalent to $10000 with a stake power of about low as $0.5, this winning is massive and the other day I was with him he told me that the funds has been paid in full by the betting company @sportybet.com.ng and without any difference to actual money so I really don't the fact about the taxes or is it that my own country regulation system is different.

michellee

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Usually, there is a percentage of tax that the winner must pay. Usually, this percentage is immediately deducted when the winner receives the money. That's what happened to my sister-in-law. At that time, he received the main prize in the form of cash (I forgot the amount). But when he received the money in his bank account, the amount had decreased because he said there was tax to be paid.

Citizens cannot refuse to pay taxes, especially if it is gift money. The government or provider will immediately deduct the money for taxes. Additionally, there is a waiting period before the money is sent to the bank account and that is annoying. This waiting period is often more than 10 days and can even be up to 2 months.

But as for gambling at online casinos, I don't know because I've never won. But for crypto casinos, the winner doesn't pay any taxes because the winnings are in crypto unless he converts his crypto to fiat and sends the money to his bank account. But maybe the regulations regarding gambling tax in each country are different, so the implementation is also clearly different.

Litzki1990

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Gambling is already very risky and if the gambling money has to be taxed then it is not a comfortable thing for a gambler. Gamblers usually take various steps to avoid paying the tax. In countries where gambling is illegal, there is no tax on gambling because people from those countries usually gamble through VPN, but in countries where gambling is legal, they are taxed. But not all gamblers pay taxes, gamblers are more comfortable gambling through crypto to avoid paying taxes. Each country's government sets taxes in their own local currency, so gamblers use crypto instead of local currency, thereby avoiding the need to pay additional taxes. Government should not take tax from gambling side because it is a very risky game and most of the times people get hurt by playing this game so if gambling is not taxed then gamblers can focus on gambling better.

arhipova

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If you are paying with crypto, it does not mean that you are free from taxes then. You still have to pay the taxes. Regarding tax filing by an accountant, yes it can be costly. But , I suggest you to learn this yourself. It is not something very hard and everything can be filed online following different online tutorials available on YouTube or Google.

Taxes seem to be unfair to majority of population especially in countries where politicians are very corrupt. But , if everyone decides to avoid taxes, the economy will come to a standstill.

Don Pedro Dinero

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Well, I think that's the main attraction of bitcoin gambling first and cryptocurrency gambling later, which has been so important in the history of bitcoin and this forum, that people don't pay taxes for it.

But we should not generalise, in this forum there are people who live in countries where they have to pay taxes for gambling profits, other people live in countries where they do not have to pay or it is not regulated, and other people live in countries where gambling is prohibited.

The avoidance of taxes, together with the anonymity (increasingly in decline nowadays) and the volatility I think are the great attractions of gambling with cryptocurrencies.

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Quote from: Chikito on November 24, 2023, 09:04:46 PM

Quote from: alani123 on November 24, 2023, 06:04:51 PM

I'd imagine that many people actually chose to gamble with crypto to avoid these restrictions and bureaucratic procedures. It really makes no sense to go through all these troubles to tax a small winning amount. Still if someone happened to win a large amount on a small bet by chance, I'd imagine some people would want to tax it so they can spend it in the real economy as fast as possible.

Taxation is it really disturbs our minds when we talk about profit. I am even unwilling to trade on my local exchange because they take the double tax (income and value-added tax) for one trade. So in this situation, I don't care too much if the gambling site doesn't take much tax for playing like the exchange, but if next they will make the same situation, I will think again about playing on decentralisasion gambling. This is quite a complicated situation, I really don't care too much if they take tax, and let us play freely without worry to banned.

Indeed, the licensing authority in each country must impose a certain amount of tax and the existence of taxes makes most people feel objectionable and even experience little stress when they have to accept the fact that a number of profits obtained must be deducted by taxes.
Just like I also never use local trading platforms in my country because they set taxes on every transaction, even when making withdrawal and sending it to a bank account, I also get certain amount of deduction.
Taxes are not always something that can be accepted by everyone, even though taxes aim to help improve the country financial problems, most taxes actually create difficulties for some people who may be in an unstable financial condition.
Maybe some of the gambling sites that charge tax are sites with income that is not too large because tax should be the responsibility of the gambling site and not take it from every customer who gambles there.
Moreover, the profits of every gambling site that has developed are very large, that only need to spend a small amount to pay taxes.

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Quote from: alani123 on November 24, 2023, 06:04:51 PM

Moreover, in many countries, filling out the forms to get taxed can be a nightmare. For winning 100$ for example, you will have to pay a big chunk of it to an accountant to find how it should be taxed. Bureaucracy is a whole other debacle in and of itself.

This is one of the reasons that I am happy to say... I live in a country where casinos are prohibited, but there are no restrictions that prevent me from playing on sites outside my country using cryptocurrencies.

I don't play for profit, my bets are always for entertainment, but I can understand your concern and discontent for those who need to go through all this bureaucracy.

What is even more discouraging is knowing that these governments do not invest the amounts raised from these taxes in something that really helps the population. I believe that most of the money should be used precisely to raise awareness about the risks of gambling (especially among children and young people) as well as health for drug and psychiatric addicts.

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Quote from: alani123 on November 24, 2023, 06:04:51 PM

I'd imagine that many people actually chose to gamble with crypto to avoid these restrictions and bureaucratic procedures. It really makes no sense to go through all these troubles to tax a small winning amount. Still if someone happened to win a large amount on a small bet by chance, I'd imagine some people would want to tax it so they can spend it in the real economy as fast as possible.

Taxation is it really disturbs our minds when we talk about profit. I am even unwilling to trade on my local exchange because they take the double tax (income and value-added tax) for one trade. So in this situation, I don't care too much if the gambling site doesn't take much tax for playing like the exchange, but if next they will make the same situation, I will think again about playing on decentralisasion gambling. This is quite a complicated situation, I really don't care too much if they take tax, and let us play freely without worry to banned.

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on November 24, 2023, 07:05:06 PM

Quote from: Darker45 on November 24, 2023, 07:01:12 PM

This made me curious. Is there anybody here who actually pays taxes for his/her gambling wins whether from a crypto platform or not? While I'm aware that any form of income is subject to taxes in my country, I cannot remember of a single instance in which I paid for my gambling wins. I'm not sure how strict this kind of taxation is being implemented in other countries, but it isn't strictly done here.

Anyway, I guess crypto gambling isn't actually designed to shirk tax responsibilities. After all, most of these gambling platforms are duly registered and have KYC terms.

Not me, not that I don't want to pay taxes, but to be honest, gambling taxes here are lax, specially online or even in traditional based casinos. Maybe if you win the lotto or something you will be tax, but playing on casinos? I don't think that everyone is paying taxes or even declaring it in their tax returns.

Even brick-and-mortar casinos here, which are directly regulated by the government's gambling board, don't collect taxes when you convert your chips into cash. Even in cockfighting stadiums where there are government employees actually monitoring the operations and where hundreds of millions are at play, they don't collect taxes from the winners.

Quote

Yeah, I think in the beginning, this is not what crypto based platform wanted to see, or even exchanges (but right now they are heavily tax specially in the US if I'm not mistaken). Hopefully there will still be some leniency as far as online crypto platform for tax purposes, otherwise it's going to be huge for us players.

Crypto gambling companies and crypto exchanges are taxed, but individual gamblers and traders who are making money are probably not. To the first crypto gambling company or crypto exchange that deducts winning gamblers and traders taxes, if that happens, it would certainly cost them a lot of users and therefore revenue.

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Quote from: Oshosondy on November 24, 2023, 06:22:18 PM

I also think that the governments are cheating their citizens, gamblers can win or lose, but gambling sites are the ones that are constantly winning and making money from customers. In that sense, only those gambling sites are supposed to be taxed, not the gamblers.

They will be taxed for their business income but it's like with stock market, stock exchanges and cryptocurrency, cryptocurrency exchanges, taxation on a business operator will be separated from individual taxation on traders, investors or traders.

Logically, if people could not have that with stocks, stock exchanges, I don't believe government and taxation authorities will give some exceptions to cryptocurrency, gambling sites and gamblers with money they use for betting.

Quote from: Darker45 on November 24, 2023, 07:01:12 PM

This made me curious. Is there anybody here who actually pays taxes for his/her gambling wins whether from a crypto platform or not? While I'm aware that any form of income is subject to taxes in my country, I cannot remember of a single instance in which I paid for my gambling wins. I'm not sure how strict this kind of taxation is being implemented in other countries, but it isn't strictly done here.

Anyway, I guess crypto gambling isn't actually designed to shirk tax responsibilities. After all, most of these gambling platforms are duly registered and have KYC terms.

It will be based on each person's individual tax report to taxation authorities. If you don't report it, they will not know about it easily. They can figure it out with deeply analysis from their staffs so if a person wins big, thinking about adding that big win to a personal tax report is not bad idea.

Because with KYC and AML, governments have more and more tools to watch their citizen money flow even through cryptocurrencies.

komisariatku

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I don't think my winnings at an online casino are taxable, if I win $50 or $100 at an online casino I will usually receive the same amount. But I don't know in land-based casinos, whether any winnings will be taxed or not

One of the frauds in taxation is that we as users are the subject of tax, even though the casinos should be the ones paying tax on the profits they earn. This also applies to supermarkets, tax is added to the price of each item in the supermarket, so it is not the supermarket that pays the tax but we as supermarket customers pay the supermarket tax.

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Quote from: alani123 on November 24, 2023, 06:04:51 PM

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In most cases, especially with lower-end wins aren't taxes just ignored or rather, not actively asked to pay? Well at least I haven't heard of anyone doing so (and I don't pay it since I play in crypto casinos not to mention I haven't really hit it big before). I guess it helps that it isn't that strict here but is there a country that's that strict when it comes to gambling taxes? Wouldn't it necessarily become crypto taxes instead since we use crypto? It's like everything spent/earned from crypto is subjected to whatever crypto tax law, if your country has one, instead of differentiating it.

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Quote from: Darker45 on November 24, 2023, 07:01:12 PM

This made me curious. Is there anybody here who actually pays taxes for his/her gambling wins whether from a crypto platform or not? While I'm aware that any form of income is subject to taxes in my country, I cannot remember of a single instance in which I paid for my gambling wins. I'm not sure how strict this kind of taxation is being implemented in other countries, but it isn't strictly done here.

Anyway, I guess crypto gambling isn't actually designed to shirk tax responsibilities. After all, most of these gambling platforms are duly registered and have KYC terms.

Not me, not that I don't want to pay taxes, but to be honest, gambling taxes here are lax, specially online or even in traditional based casinos. Maybe if you win the lotto or something you will be tax, but playing on casinos? I don't think that everyone is paying taxes or even declaring it in their tax returns.

Yeah, I think in the beginning, this is not what crypto based platform wanted to see, or even exchanges (but right now they are heavily tax specially in the US if I'm not mistaken). Hopefully there will still be some leniency as far as online crypto platform for tax purposes, otherwise it's going to be huge for us players.

Darker45

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This made me curious. Is there anybody here who actually pays taxes for his/her gambling wins whether from a crypto platform or not? While I'm aware that any form of income is subject to taxes in my country, I cannot remember of a single instance in which I paid for my gambling wins. I'm not sure how strict this kind of taxation is being implemented in other countries, but it isn't strictly done here.

Anyway, I guess crypto gambling isn't actually designed to shirk tax responsibilities. After all, most of these gambling platforms are duly registered and have KYC terms.

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Quote from: alani123 on November 24, 2023, 06:04:51 PM

I'd imagine that many people actually chose to gamble with crypto to avoid these restrictions and bureaucratic procedures. It really makes no sense to go through all these troubles to tax a small winning amount. Still if someone happened to win a large amount on a small bet by chance, I'd imagine some people would want to tax it so they can spend it in the real economy as fast as possible.

I don't know what the views of gamblers are who prefer playing at crypto casinos rather than having to play at nationally licensed casinos like the ones you mentioned. In my country gambling is illegal, therefore I choose to play at crypto casinos. It's not only about privacy, but also about time efficiency and convenience.

Quote from: Oshosondy on November 24, 2023, 06:22:18 PM

It would be better if the government want to tax gamblers, the government also supposed to pay the percentage taxed of the amount the gamblers are losing. I mean assuming the tax is 10%, if gamblers lose money, government also supposed to pay 10% to the gamblers of the amount they lose. This will make taxing gamblers justifiable.

LOL, That's the ideal thing for the government to do, but it will also be difficult in recording government financial income. No need to go too far into the real gambling side, let's just take an example like Coinbase users, do they get a kind of rakeback from the American government because of their trading losses?

adultcrypto

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I'm not really gambling with crypto to evade taxation because there is no tax on gambling in my country. I chosed crypto for gambling for the numerous advantages it offers such as ease of access, privacy and fast withdrawals.

Quote from: coupable on November 24, 2023, 06:26:32 PM

In my country, there is a law that allows the state to obtain 25 percent of any amount a person wins in games and competitions of all kinds, even if he won it with a company outside the state or on the Internet, if the state agencies are able to prove that. The state automatically deducts that amount in the form of payable taxes and considers it a taxable grant. Of course, these procedures go through a bureaucratic process that will take a long time, and it is not possible to predict how long it will last.

25% as tax is such a big number. At what point do your government deduct the money? Do they have the authorisation to debit accounts on the basis of taxation? In my country, we complain of tax that is 10% in my country... seems we are even enjoying here. Besides, so many things are not taxable here and the rate of tax evasion is high.

Topic: Gambling with crypto because taxation makes no sense? - page 4. (Read 545 times)