Game: What happens next? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Geddi

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It's the muffins that must be stopped.

Quote from: w00t on April 12, 2013, 07:59:22 AM

In comarison with stocks I see Bitcoin as quite safe investment. I know a technological company which from 500M went to about 25M in about a year (that's 20x less or 5% of the original value). The cause was obvious - too optimistic future views, "complicated" accounting etc..
If this can happen to a company listed on NASDAQ in 2012 (loooong after Enron), I think Bitcoin will do just fine

Thats very true. I hope that bitcoin will end up ok, its spirit is beautiful. Maybe the whole picture isn't so Enron after all.

But...
Having to choose from these 3 (ms, apple, enron) ms and apple have never 'lived off of its stock value'.
Both ms and apple have foundation (ms==software+monopoly, apple is(was) very innovative design, 'think out of the box' electronics),
Bitcoin does have some foundation (anonymous no-govt banking) but unfortunately something is still missing (money in or out of the 'system').
Enron turned into a 'companying company' and the stock exchange frenzy bitcoin currently experiences gives me that Enron feeling..

And somehow it's fun talking about these criminals.. These guys were stupid and smart at the same time, if they had chosen another path(less stupid) they could have been rich beyond their dreams.

w00t

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Quote from: Geddi on April 11, 2013, 08:50:49 AM

I'd say Enron. Same good start, same freaking bubble, probably same outcome. Only no Lay or Skilling to point at when it's over.

I studied heavily what had happened at Enron. And I can assure you it's not anythink like that.

Quote from: Geddi on April 11, 2013, 08:50:49 AM

Enron could not produce a simple balance sheet. Analyst consensus was "you have to take it on faith - it's a black box".

There was a bit more going on than being unable to produce a balance sheet. How 'bout Fastow's money games? How about the rolling blackouts? They probably could produce a balance sheet but it would have been unimaginably long and scare the hell out of everyone!

Fastow's games were in process to trick the market, as I understood it he used SPV (financed by Merill and others) to bury company debt - it was connected with the "unable to produce balance sheet" - if they did it - the truth would come out.

Rolling blackouts - yeah that was unfortuante and poor California was hit hard, though if Enron did only this they would never go under (it was very profitable at times).

Quote from: Geddi on April 11, 2013, 08:50:49 AM

Their broadband products were connected with big mounth proclamations while they had nothing.

A bit like proclaiming "you can buy something with bitcoin" You can get high off of SR, or gamble your life away with SD but that's about it.
Oh wait... you can daytrade the hell out of it! Let's plaster the stock value all over town like Enron did. And crash like them..

The list of services is available. I understand it could be longer but the Silkroad itself would be enough.

Quote from: Geddi on April 11, 2013, 08:50:49 AM

Quote from: w00t on April 11, 2013, 10:49:03 AM

"mark to market accounting"

Yeah I know.. Future value and such.
Don't forget: bitcoin is valued for its possibilities, not for the things it actually does.

Yes, I agree with this one - this is similar with Enron or any other company - look at Amazon they have for years its P/E in range of hundreds.

Quote from: Geddi on April 11, 2013, 08:50:49 AM

Bitcoin is exact opposite - It's opensourced and distributed.
Bitcoin protocol is opensource, its value it a black box.

In comarison with stocks I see Bitcoin as quite safe investment. I know a technological company which from 500M went to about 25M in about a year (that's 20x less or 5% of the original value). The cause was obvious - too optimistic future views, "complicated" accounting etc..
If this can happen to a company listed on NASDAQ in 2012 (loooong after Enron), I think Bitcoin will do just fine

Quote from: Geddi on April 11, 2013, 08:50:49 AM

Bitcoin looks like Enron to me at this moment. Wanna know why? Ask why, asshole!

Grin

Yes this one is funny Wink

Geddi

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

It's the muffins that must be stopped.

Quote from: antimattercrusader on April 11, 2013, 12:27:08 PM

Why?

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Wekkel

legendary

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yes

I like the graphs Cool

bitcon

legendary

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funny how people are always comparing btc to stocks

antimattercrusader

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Quote from: Geddi on April 11, 2013, 12:08:54 PM

Quote from: w00t on April 11, 2013, 10:49:03 AM

Quote from: Geddi on April 11, 2013, 08:50:49 AM

I'd say Enron. Same good start, same freaking bubble, probably same outcome. Only no Lay or Skilling to point at when it's over.

I studied heavily what had happened at Enron. And I can assure you it's not anythink like that.

Enron could not produce a simple balance sheet. Analyst consensus was "you have to take it on faith - it's a black box".

There was a bit more going on than being unable to produce a balance sheet. How 'bout Fastow's money games? How about the rolling blackouts? They probably could produce a balance sheet but it would have been unimaginably long and scare the hell out of everyone!

Not all those things are an issue with bitcoin but "studied heavily"?

Quote from: w00t on April 11, 2013, 10:49:03 AM

Their broadband products were connected with big mounth proclamations while they had nothing.

A bit like proclaiming "you can buy something with bitcoin" You can get high off of SR, or gamble your life away with SD but that's about it.
Oh wait... you can daytrade the hell out of it! Let's plaster the stock value all over town like Enron did. And crash like them..

Quote from: w00t on April 11, 2013, 10:49:03 AM

"mark to market accounting"

Yeah I know.. Future value and such.
Don't forget: bitcoin is valued for its possibilities, not for the things it actually does.

Quote from: w00t on April 11, 2013, 10:49:03 AM

Bitcoin is exact opposite - It's opensourced and distributed.

Bitcoin protocol is opensource, its value it a black box.

Bitcoin looks like Enron to me at this moment. Wanna know why? Ask why, asshole!

Grin

Why?

Geddi

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

It's the muffins that must be stopped.

Quote from: w00t on April 11, 2013, 10:49:03 AM

Quote from: Geddi on April 11, 2013, 08:50:49 AM

I'd say Enron. Same good start, same freaking bubble, probably same outcome. Only no Lay or Skilling to point at when it's over.

I studied heavily what had happened at Enron. And I can assure you it's not anythink like that.

Enron could not produce a simple balance sheet. Analyst consensus was "you have to take it on faith - it's a black box".

There was a bit more going on than being unable to produce a balance sheet. How 'bout Fastow's money games? How about the rolling blackouts? They probably could produce a balance sheet but it would have been unimaginably long and scare the hell out of everyone!

Not all those things are an issue with bitcoin but "studied heavily"?

Quote from: w00t on April 11, 2013, 10:49:03 AM

Their broadband products were connected with big mounth proclamations while they had nothing.

A bit like proclaiming "you can buy something with bitcoin" You can get high off of SR, or gamble your life away with SD but that's about it.
Oh wait... you can daytrade the hell out of it! Let's plaster the stock value all over town like Enron did. And crash like them..

Quote from: w00t on April 11, 2013, 10:49:03 AM

"mark to market accounting"

Yeah I know.. Future value and such.
Don't forget: bitcoin is valued for its possibilities, not for the things it actually does.

Quote from: w00t on April 11, 2013, 10:49:03 AM

Bitcoin is exact opposite - It's opensourced and distributed.

Bitcoin protocol is opensource, its value it a black box.

Bitcoin looks like Enron to me at this moment. Wanna know why? Ask why, asshole!

Grin

w00t

full member

Activity: 188

Merit: 108

Quote from: Geddi on April 11, 2013, 08:50:49 AM

I'd say Enron. Same good start, same freaking bubble, probably same outcome. Only no Lay or Skilling to point at when it's over.

I studied heavily what had happened at Enron. And I can assure you it's not anythink like that.

Enron could not produce a simple balance sheet. Analyst consensus was "you have to take it on faith - it's a black box".

Their broadband products were connected with big mounth proclamations while they had nothing.

On top of that - there was huge fraud connected with usage of "structured finance" and also "mark to market accounting" when they booked future projected profits on non existing services (or booked profits on services actually loosing money - that's why they never released balance sheets).

Bitcoin is exact opposite - It's opensourced and distributed.

Geddi

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

It's the muffins that must be stopped.

I'd say Enron. Same good start, same freaking bubble, probably same outcome. Only no Lay or Skilling to point at when it's over.

im3w1l

sr. member

Activity: 280

Merit: 250

Quote from: adamstgBit on April 10, 2013, 11:18:43 AM

Quote from: yokosan on April 10, 2013, 11:15:34 AM

Quote from: adamstgBit on April 10, 2013, 11:13:55 AM

None of these other charts come close to the bitcoin bubble...

the bitcoin bubble is like 10 times bigger then anything we ever seen b4?

Well the other charts are over much longer time periods.

omg its even better...
so bitcoin has gone up 10 times higher( % wise ) than any of these stocks, and it did this in a fraction of the time.

has there ever been a stock that has bubbled up as fast and furious as bitcoin has?

why does the bitcoin behave this way?

I would say bitcoin behaves a bit like a tech stock pre-ipo. Those three founders working out of a garage might revolutionize the world. Or not.

yokosan

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Merit: 500

Quote from: adamstgBit on April 10, 2013, 11:18:43 AM

Quote from: yokosan on April 10, 2013, 11:15:34 AM

Quote from: adamstgBit on April 10, 2013, 11:13:55 AM

None of these other charts come close to the bitcoin bubble...

the bitcoin bubble is like 10 times bigger then anything we ever seen b4?

Well the other charts are over much longer time periods.

omg its even better...
so bitcoin has gone up 10 times higher( % wise ) than any of these stocks, and it did this in a fraction of the time.

has there ever been a stock that has bubbled up as fast and furious as bitcoin has?

why does the bitcoin behave this way?

Well if you do this over the same time period of these other charts, what we are seeing right now could just be a tiny speck, similar to what the 2011 bubble looks like now.

adamstgBit

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Activity: 1904

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Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: yokosan on April 10, 2013, 11:15:34 AM

Quote from: adamstgBit on April 10, 2013, 11:13:55 AM

None of these other charts come close to the bitcoin bubble...

the bitcoin bubble is like 10 times bigger then anything we ever seen b4?

Well the other charts are over much longer time periods.

omg its even better...
so bitcoin has gone up 10 times higher( % wise ) than any of these stocks, and it did this in a fraction of the time.

has there ever been a stock that has bubbled up as fast and furious as bitcoin has?

why does the bitcoin behave this way?

yokosan

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

Quote from: adamstgBit on April 10, 2013, 11:13:55 AM

None of these other charts come close to the bitcoin bubble...

the bitcoin bubble is like 10 times bigger then anything we ever seen b4?

Well the other charts are over much longer time periods.

adamstgBit

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1037

Trusted Bitcoiner

None of these other charts come close to the bitcoin bubble...

the bitcoin bubble is like 10 times bigger then anything we ever seen b4?

YoYa

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Always verify deals with me through my public key!

I'd swear I've seen this guy before, used to talk about bitcoin being worth billions, almost like the creepy uncle I never had Grin

chrsjrcj

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Quote from: XXthetimeisnowXX on April 10, 2013, 11:08:03 AM

Quote from: chrsjrcj on April 10, 2013, 10:57:33 AM

Enron didn't crash because it was a bubble.

I wouldn't mind a Bitcoin correction $150 for a little bit (two to three weeks). The recent rise was WAY too much.

enron didnt "crash" becouse of a bubble.....hahahaha i love it, enron crashed becuse if fucking litteraly crashed and ruined the Alaska shores and oil went everywhere and killed millions of animals .....

That's kind of what I meant. I probably should've been more clear.

NikolaTesla

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Ah but what about WorldCom not to mention the entire Nasdaq in April 2000...

XXthetimeisnowXX

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a wolf in sheeps clothing. suckerfish

Quote from: chrsjrcj on April 10, 2013, 10:57:33 AM

Enron didn't crash because it was a bubble.

I wouldn't mind a Bitcoin correction $150 for a little bit (two to three weeks). The recent rise was WAY too much.

enron didnt "crash" becouse of a bubble.....hahahaha i love it, enron crashed becuse if fucking litteraly crashed and ruined the Alaska shores and oil went everywhere and killed millions of animals .....

chrsjrcj

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Enron didn't crash because it was a bubble.

I wouldn't mind a Bitcoin correction $150 for a little bit (two to three weeks). The recent rise was WAY too much.

humanitee

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None of the above.

Bitcoin is not a stock.

Topic: Game: What happens next? (Read 2104 times)