Continues in a self moderated thread: (thank you icebreaker)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=318706.new#new
Topic: Gathering funds for legal action against HashFast (Read 3750 times)
I've filed a FTC compilant for my amount. I would like you guys to do the same. It's a free, painless process that is really relaxing (compared to reading these forums) and takes about 15 minutes. You can do it here:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=70&Url=%23%26panel1-6
Also, i need help on deciding who to contact on this huge list, to prosecute offenders of consumer laws (since that it looks like that it can be done privately and not):
http://www.usa.gov/directory/stateconsumer/california.shtml
I have to take a flight tonight, so i can't do it. However i will probably spend a lot of time tomorrow calling them via Skype.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=70&Url=%23%26panel1-6
Also, i need help on deciding who to contact on this huge list, to prosecute offenders of consumer laws (since that it looks like that it can be done privately and not):
http://www.usa.gov/directory/stateconsumer/california.shtml
I have to take a flight tonight, so i can't do it. However i will probably spend a lot of time tomorrow calling them via Skype.
Wow, you sure can throw one heck of an internet tantrum based on nothing other than confusing the most optimistic shipping date with some kind of deadline (despite the fine print specifying DEC 31 as the actual deadline).
While you're at it, don't forget to call the BITCOIN POLICE!
If I remember correctly, their site said starts shipping October 20th - October 30th when I made my preorder. From that information, the "most optimistic shipping date" is October 20th and the worst case scenario is October 30th.
I like how completely on-topic posts are being deleted for the crime of disagreeing with the OP in an open (not self-moderated) thread.
Censorship is the best way to prove a point, right?
I wonder, what will happen if I point out it's not yet Oct 30, so huffing and puffing about FTC complaints is at least 5 days premature?
Not a customer here. Expected shipping date not met, refunds should be available upon request. Law may be on HF side, PR will not be for long.
Hey if thats your goal than good luck, I think it would be fairly easy to win this with a decent lawyer. Do you have a hardware background?
Sorry, what do you mean by hardware background? Like in computers? I think to know everything that there is to know about computer hardware, and i'm studying electronic engineering (for what it matters).The only lawyer quote i have is a 300$/hour one, but i guess that i can find a decent one for much lower than that, what do you think?
(again, if anyone has lawyer suggestions, they are really welcome)
(thanks!)
That is about the rate you will find. Post on lawyers.com maybe you can find a cheaper one.
Hey if thats your goal than good luck, I think it would be fairly easy to win this with a decent lawyer. Do you have a hardware background?
Sorry, what do you mean by hardware background? Like in computers? I think to know everything that there is to know about computer hardware, and i'm studying electronic engineering (for what it matters).The only lawyer quote i have is a 300$/hour one, but i guess that i can find a decent one for much lower than that, what do you think?
(again, if anyone has lawyer suggestions, they are really welcome)
(thanks!)
If you ordered support this man and get your money back
Thanks. My idea is to put down 5k to 10k of my own money, but it would be much much better if there where a community following and helping on this long way. Not only money-wise, that is also important, since that i think 10k won't bring me that far.Hey if thats your goal than good luck, I think it would be fairly easy to win this with a decent lawyer. Do you have a hardware background?
If you ordered support this man and get your money back
Thanks. My idea is to put down 5k to 10k of my own money, but it would be much much better if there where a community following and helping on this long way. Not only money-wise, that is also important, since that i think 10k won't bring me that far.If you ordered support this man and get your money back
Thanks. My idea is to put down 5k to 10k of my own money, but it would be much much better if there where a community following and helping on this long way. Not only money-wise, that is also important, since that i think 10k won't bring me that far.Your fucking mentally retarded. Hashfast is obligated by law to ship within 30-60days or have to provide a refund you dumb fuck. Doesn't matter if they say we will ship 5 years from now.
That is when no shipping time is determined: the standard one is within 30 days. Anyway, it doesn't really matter: we are entitled by the law to a full refund if we cancel the order before the shipping and/or if we refuse the shipment.Anyway just ignore him, you will have brighter days.
If you ordered support this man and get your money back
Thanks. My idea is to put down 5k to 10k of my own money, but it would be much much better if there where a community following and helping on this long way. Not only money-wise, that is also important, since that i think 10k won't bring me that far. tldr: HashFast, 3 days after claiming that everything is on track, says that they will be at least 3 weeks late. 3 weeks later means that people like me, who bought batch 1 miners, will never see a ROI greater than (minus) 50%.
thegenesisblock.com says that our projected return should be 1/4 of our initial investment, if we can start mining by December.
thegenesisblock.com says that our projected return should be 1/4 of our initial investment, if we can start mining by December.
We published a shipping windows between Point A (end of Oct) and Point B (Dec 31) and committed to issuing full refunds if we ship outside of this window (IE after Dec 31).
What you're seeing is a narrowing of that window, and honesty on the company's part in communicating with our customers.
We believe that to be a good thing.
Naturally, we'd love to hear whatever you'd like to say - and if you feel we are doing things wrong, please tell us how we may do better.
That extends to any of our customers, people who are not yet our customers, and people who are not and never will be
Thanks!
HF
PS to answer your other point regarding the ROI calculations, some points we think are relevant include
1- We do not control the hashrate
2- Despite that, we came up with the MPP as a way to further support our customer's success.
3- We then gave MPP protection free of charge to all batch 1 customers, who were not expecting it
and were charged for it.
4- MPP protection is intentionally denominated in BTC, not USD.
Given the direction BTC prices are taking, it is possible our early or late customers will achieve ROI in
less that 90 days - and still receive MMP protection from us. No charge, no questions.
We are proud to be the first ASIC company to do that for its customers.
We're happy to see other ASIC companies follow our lead (down to copying "miner protection program" word-for-word); if it leads to ASIC companies treating their customers better than has historically been the case, we are all for it.
Unfortunately hashfast nobody gives a fuck what your bullshit estimated dates are. It's what the FTC says they are. I haven't ordered from these scum, just looking at their faces made me want to puke.
If you ordered support this man and get your money back
I've filed a FTC compilant for my amount. I would like you guys to do the same. It's a free, painless process that is really relaxing (compared to reading these forums) and takes about 15 minutes. You can do it here:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=70&Url=%23%26panel1-6
Also, i need help on deciding who to contact on this huge list, to prosecute offenders of consumer laws (since that it looks like that it can be done privately and not):
http://www.usa.gov/directory/stateconsumer/california.shtml
I have to take a flight tonight, so i can't do it. However i will probably spend a lot of time tomorrow calling them via Skype.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=70&Url=%23%26panel1-6
Also, i need help on deciding who to contact on this huge list, to prosecute offenders of consumer laws (since that it looks like that it can be done privately and not):
http://www.usa.gov/directory/stateconsumer/california.shtml
I have to take a flight tonight, so i can't do it. However i will probably spend a lot of time tomorrow calling them via Skype.
Wow, you sure can throw one heck of an internet tantrum based on nothing other than confusing the most optimistic shipping date with some kind of deadline (despite the fine print specifying DEC 31 as the actual deadline).
While you're at it, don't forget to call the BITCOIN POLICE!
If I remember correctly, their site said starts shipping October 20th - October 30th when I made my preorder. From that information, the "most optimistic shipping date" is October 20th and the worst case scenario is October 30th.
I've filed a FTC compilant for my amount. I would like you guys to do the same. It's a free, painless process that is really relaxing (compared to reading these forums) and takes about 15 minutes. You can do it here:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=70&Url=%23%26panel1-6
Also, i need help on deciding who to contact on this huge list, to prosecute offenders of consumer laws (since that it looks like that it can be done privately and not):
http://www.usa.gov/directory/stateconsumer/california.shtml
I have to take a flight tonight, so i can't do it. However i will probably spend a lot of time tomorrow calling them via Skype.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=70&Url=%23%26panel1-6
Also, i need help on deciding who to contact on this huge list, to prosecute offenders of consumer laws (since that it looks like that it can be done privately and not):
http://www.usa.gov/directory/stateconsumer/california.shtml
I have to take a flight tonight, so i can't do it. However i will probably spend a lot of time tomorrow calling them via Skype.
I believe those terms where added in mid-August AFTER many of the batch 1 orders were made. Initially there was no Dec 31 clause in the agreement.
I'm looking for a copy of that version of the agreement. Thanks. We published a shipping windows between Point A (end of Oct) and Point B (Dec 31) and committed to issuing full refunds if we ship outside of this window (IE after Dec 31).
Actually, you'll be "committed to issuing full refunds" if you miss the self-imposed October 31 timeline, per FTC rules. This forum is all too familiar with these rules, having done battle with BFL, PayPal and others. If anyone should be speaking to an attorney, it's Hashfast.
I thought the Dec 31st was the deadline for batch 1 and Jan 31 for batch 2. Read the fine print.
If you bought this pre-order you have agreed to the terms. They will refund you the money if the don't ship by Dec 31st. If they don't, I think you'll have a good case to take them to court next year. If they ship right before or on Dec 31st (tracking number in your email/fax), you can kiss 90% of your investment goodbye. Just wait in few weeks they will announce that products are shipping so no more refunds.
My guess is that they will get the first miners ready sometime by the mid of November, they'll mine them for a month or so and start shipping, just to give them enough time to meet their legal obligations. Or just refund you your money in bitcoins (a small portion of the mining profits). Essentially giving them free capital to develop the product. After that, they will auction them on ebay or some other tradehill like place. Rinse and repeat for gen2.
I believe those terms where added in mid-August AFTER many of the batch 1 orders were made. Initially there was no Dec 31 clause in the agreement.
p.s. now you're quoted. I'm just going to leave this here, in case you (or your handlers) later realize the absurdity of some of the things you've said and decide to edit your post. Like giving away the "MPP" / "miner protection program" trademark and/or service mark to the community.
We published a shipping windows between Point A (end of Oct) and Point B (Dec 31) and committed to issuing full refunds if we ship outside of this window (IE after Dec 31).
What you're seeing is a narrowing of that window, and honesty on the company's part in communicating with our customers.
We believe that to be a good thing.
Naturally, we'd love to hear whatever you'd like to say - and if you feel we are doing things wrong, please tell us how we may do better.
That extends to any of our customers, people who are not yet our customers, and people who are not and never will be
Thanks!
HF
PS to answer your other point regarding the ROI calculations, some points we think are relevant include
1- We do not control the hashrate
2- Despite that, we came up with the MPP as a way to further support our customer's success.
3- We then gave MPP protection free of charge to all batch 1 customers, who were not expecting it
and were charged for it.
4- MPP protection is intentionally denominated in BTC, not USD.
Given the direction BTC prices are taking, it is possible our early or late customers will achieve ROI in
less that 90 days - and still receive MMP protection from us. No charge, no questions.
We are proud to be the first ASIC company to do that for its customers.
We're happy to see other ASIC companies follow our lead (down to copying "miner protection program" word-for-word); if it leads to ASIC companies treating their customers better than has historically been the case, we are all for it.
tldr: HashFast, 3 days after claiming that everything is on track, says that they will be at least 3 weeks late. 3 weeks later means that people like me, who bought batch 1 miners, will never see a ROI greater than (minus) 50%.
thegenesisblock.com says that our projected return should be 1/4 of our initial investment, if we can start mining by December.
thegenesisblock.com says that our projected return should be 1/4 of our initial investment, if we can start mining by December.
We published a shipping windows between Point A (end of Oct) and Point B (Dec 31) and committed to issuing full refunds if we ship outside of this window (IE after Dec 31).
What you're seeing is a narrowing of that window, and honesty on the company's part in communicating with our customers.
We believe that to be a good thing.
Naturally, we'd love to hear whatever you'd like to say - and if you feel we are doing things wrong, please tell us how we may do better.
That extends to any of our customers, people who are not yet our customers, and people who are not and never will be
Thanks!
HF
PS to answer your other point regarding the ROI calculations, some points we think are relevant include
1- We do not control the hashrate
2- Despite that, we came up with the MPP as a way to further support our customer's success.
3- We then gave MPP protection free of charge to all batch 1 customers, who were not expecting it
and were charged for it.
4- MPP protection is intentionally denominated in BTC, not USD.
Given the direction BTC prices are taking, it is possible our early or late customers will achieve ROI in
less that 90 days - and still receive MMP protection from us. No charge, no questions.
We are proud to be the first ASIC company to do that for its customers.
We're happy to see other ASIC companies follow our lead (down to copying "miner protection program" word-for-word); if it leads to ASIC companies treating their customers better than has historically been the case, we are all for it.
We published a shipping windows between Point A (end of Oct) and Point B (Dec 31) and committed to issuing full refunds if we ship outside of this window (IE after Dec 31).
Actually, you'll be "committed to issuing full refunds" if you miss the self-imposed October 31 timeline, per FTC rules. This forum is all too familiar with these rules, having done battle with BFL, PayPal and others. If anyone should be speaking to an attorney, it's Hashfast.
tldr: HashFast, 3 days after claiming that everything is on track, says that they will be at least 3 weeks late. 3 weeks later means that people like me, who bought batch 1 miners, will never see a ROI greater than (minus) 50%.
thegenesisblock.com says that our projected return should be 1/4 of our initial investment, if we can start mining by December.
thegenesisblock.com says that our projected return should be 1/4 of our initial investment, if we can start mining by December.
We published a shipping windows between Point A (end of Oct) and Point B (Dec 31) and committed to issuing full refunds if we ship outside of this window (IE after Dec 31).
What you're seeing is a narrowing of that window, and honesty on the company's part in communicating with our customers.
We believe that to be a good thing.
Naturally, we'd love to hear whatever you'd like to say - and if you feel we are doing things wrong, please tell us how we may do better.
That extends to any of our customers, people who are not yet our customers, and people who are not and never will be
Thanks!
HF
PS to answer your other point regarding the ROI calculations, some points we think are relevant include
1- We do not control the hashrate
2- Despite that, we came up with the MPP as a way to further support our customer's success.
3- We then gave MPP protection free of charge to all batch 1 customers, who were not expecting it
and were charged for it.
4- MPP protection is intentionally denominated in BTC, not USD.
Given the direction BTC prices are taking, it is possible our early or late customers will achieve ROI in
less that 90 days - and still receive MMP protection from us. No charge, no questions.
We are proud to be the first ASIC company to do that for its customers.
We're happy to see other ASIC companies follow our lead (down to copying "miner protection program" word-for-word); if it leads to ASIC companies treating their customers better than has historically been the case, we are all for it.
didn't they employ you? At one time
You are confusing me with someone else.
didn't they employ you? At one time. Yes, sorry. That was cyberdoc (something like that). Best of luck with your legal action with HF.
Jump to: