Topic: Gavin Andresen on the front page of the FT (Read 4747 times)

No matter what you say to journos, you can't win because they will chop up and present your words however they wish. They are in the business of presenting interesting narratives to please readers, not sticking to impartial reporting. If Gavin had harped on about how people should invest, quite possibly they would (relatively subtly, given this is FT) spin him as a crazy shill and print a big fat price chart to prove it.

I get it... unfortunately, not too much in the mood for jokes as it appears that one of Bitcoin's lead developers is insinuating that many people over 50 shouldn't touch any crypto-currencies at the moment. This seems a bit of an over-reach but many developers tend to be cynical because they study the risks and flaws in the code, so its not too much of a surprise. It is very damaging to be making these comments to journalists and I certainly believe that a very modest investment in bitcoin is something we all should encourage.

Now people reading the financial times are going to be more encouraged to invest in "stock market funds" and avoid bitcoin altogether. Stock market funds carry their own risks and I have had many friends and family members ripped off by shady investment advisers or firms pumping dangerous stocks and mutual funds, and than there is the amortized damage caused by the financial sector and the inherent costs for the bailouts covering their corrupt investments which place security risks upon us all to consider as well.

So you're saying the problem with Bitcoin is the miners

I agree there are different security concerns with traditional banking vs Bitcoin "banks". While it is great for you to be so focused on raising the bar on security it is also important to compare the inherent risks with traditional banks where much of the security risks are amortized and institutionalized. I take every degree of caution with my traditional banks and credit cards and I have had been a victim of credit card fraud multiple times and have yet to have any bitcoins stolen unlike with credit cards where I have had funds frozen, and had to pay deductibles with every incident.

I help older people (60+) all the time and they are capable of running a virus scanner and working 2fA on sites just fine. It is extremely unlikely that theft will occur with 2FA on coinbase or circle. Additionally, if there is theft we are only talking about a really small investment of a couple grand which is a quite reasonable risk. Any amount over a couple grand I usually will advise them to use mutisig paper wallets and have someone technical help them. 

Just a thought for Luddites, TV and print ad campaign by major exchange, with phone number, luddites phone in for free usb stick or cd that is a custom version of TAILS in a VM, with wallet software or custom "app" for exchange.

Just brainstorming.

Really?

If your luddite parents' computer might already be compromised, they cannot securely connect to coinbase (or circle or any other easy-enough-for-a-luddite-to-use service) to set up an account. The might THINK they're connecting to coinbase/circle/whoever, but malware could be man-in-the-middle attacking the website they're looking at.

They think they're opening an account at coinbase/circle/whatever... but they're just giving the attacker all their bank account information, getting bitcoin 'deposit' addresses from the attacker, etc. Your parents will have no clue until their bank tells them about odd wire transfers or they try to send bitcoin somewhere, it fails, and coinbase customer support tells them "Sorry, can't help you, you don't have an account with us."

I would say the same about traditional online banking, except your luddite parents almost certainly already have a relationship with their bank, and the bank already knows their name and how to contact them. And it is harder for an attacker to man-in-the-middle the fiat banking system and get away with it, since identities are tied to bank accounts, wire transfers, etc.

I don't know how the "Bitcoin for Luddites" problem will be solved. Maybe hardware wallets, maybe hardware authentication tokens, maybe Apple or Google will get iPhone or Android security tight enough to trust, maybe it will take "come to our branch to set up an account" to get good-enough security and usability.

Do you see VISA/Mastercard running around, making excuses for people misusing their technology all over the internet? Even worst ....their technology can be "cloned" / "copied" / "faked"

Gavin are telling people to be cautious, because he, cannot give guarantees for the services built on top of the Bitcoin protocol.

He warned against "Cloud mining" and people still use it. {So, some people are risk takers and like to be challenged}

If you want to invest in a low risk option, go for gold, it's like watching grass grow. 

Well yes you def need to make sure that what you are using is actually a non-fake version of your wallet.

The concept of a bitcoin transaction being irreversible really is foreign to most people. Most consumers are so used to being able dispute a transaction with their credit card company or their bank that they do not take security very seriously

He has been consistent and doesn't want to see fools rush into something, ill-prepared. 

Great statement. I recently bought a number of Morgan Dollars off ebay. When I took them to a local coin shop to assess and give me a rough grade, one was pointed out as a counterfeit....put on the scale, came in a few grams short (should be 26.8g)...found to be plated silver.
So, even someone that knows more than most in regards to numismatics, can get a coin or two slipped by every now and again. How much more for those not proficient in technology and security? There are some basic needed security measures that should be understood by newbies before jumping into the crypto-currency world. (This forum is a great start.) Gavin articulated something that, although short term difficult to digest, every individual looking into BTC should understand as a basic.

Thank you Gavin for screwing all your investors you ass face. maybe we shuld all move onto to other coins as well thanks for the heads up nut sack.

True, the next few years will be the time to improve bitcoin security

I think every bitcoin user need to at least understand what is a private key. There is no short cut, just like people must be able to learn how to identify gold in order to make sure they don't get fake gold

In a trust-less model, any security solution provided by third party (even the bitcoin core application) has a potential of being compromised. (I have seen fake bitcoin applications taking user's coin). If people want to put real serious money into bitcoin, they must be 100% sure that their coin will not going to be compromised without their own fault, and each step of the security measure must be clearly understandable by average users. That will take a lot of education and practice

Bitcoin navigational insight #2, we are also here...

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/10/business/business-technology-doubts-raised-on-number-of-internet-users.html

as in "OMG it's completely overhyped, there's nowhere near as many regular users as the optimists say, it's just not taking off as fast as it should, it sorta works, but there's so much more to be done...."

Best thing I've read this month!
If BTC could enjoy the same growth as the Internet, this would be a dream. Still, it's true it's quite shaky right now, but there are many investors looking for wild, promising, high risk and possibly high return investments.

That wasn't the impression I got when I read it. I just saw it as a warning that people should hold off for now if they have any doubt about their abilities, financial or technical. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I'm not sure how much distillation of technical material you've had to do for traditional media, but the discussion of how to protect a small amount of BTC using multi-sig technology on an insure service is the kind of thing that ends up on the cutting room floor. Gavin could probably have given an hour of material on security best practices to the reporter and the article would look no different than it does now.

I think the problem is not with what Gavin said but the way he was quote mined and editorialized. Hopefully, he doesn't suggest non technical people shouldn't have 50 usd of btc on their cell phone and a couple grand(if they have other investments) in an insured multi-sig wallet like circle or coinbase.

You just clarified what I said. Currently, Bitcoin is not for the faint of heart investor playing with tomorrow's morgage payment. It's not for world travelers that need to ensure they have enough money to safely travel. It's not for going to the grocery store with three kids in tow. It's an experiment that hopefully will lead to all of the above someday. When you get screwed by a company they will likely lose your business forever and you will give a negative report on that company to everyone that asks about them. Why should anyone want Bitcoin to suffer the same fate? Tell them the truth now and they will trust you tomorrow.

Quite the facial expression they have him locked in, looks shocked to say the least.

Bitcoin navigational insight, You are here ....