Topic: Gemini's launch is a failure, so is bitcoin - page 2. (Read 5526 times)

More how it's put together with other words, which is '[you] knowing that 99% of the trades aren't fake.'
Do you know that 99% aren't fake?
The only things standing between Anon and 99% wash trade & ...other fun stuffs are his scruples & [possibly] somewhat higher electrical bill (due to server load).
Regulation ups the ante to fines & possible jail time. I like that
Inb4 my dubious use of the word 'know': You got me, I played it fast & loose, sosumi. Should've said 'having greater reason to think, though still implicitly relying on a bunch of assumptions, albeit a substantially more reasonable & smaller bunch.' That's just so ugly & takes forever to type, so I went with 'know.'

I'm worried about any personal details being on any database. Not because I'm unreasonably paranoid (though that's certainly arguable) but because the more information outside my control, the harder it is for me to manage it. I live in a jurisdiction where there are pretty robust privacy laws, so I'm not too worried about sharing financial information with my government (or other European governments) - I have a relatively high degree of confidence that my information will be used for the advertised purpose, and not sold or leaked to other parties - but it still makes sense to limit the information I share. I'm not going to give out personal data willy nilly - there would have to be a compelling reason for me to do so.

Your second paragraph, 99% of trades are fake? I assume this is conversational, like your "proof" earlier? Yeah, of course your general point is correct - Gemini is safer than a non-regulated exchange. That's why I hope institutional investors in BTC will increase, that's why I welcome Gemini. But in order for me to trade there I need to locate ID documents (what documents do they need? Will mine be acceptable?), send them (or copies - do they need to be notarised?), wait for them to be received, approved, etc. All for trading a few BTC. When I'm already trading quite happily elsewhere.

Seriously, I'd love to be part of Gemini's target audience. If I had the money, I would trade there. But I'm not going to go through the AML/KYC hassle for the sake of a few BTC. And I strongly suspect that most people will display similar inertia. They'll all have slightly different reasons, but the outcome will be the same - most people will continue trading on the exchange(s) they know, until/unless there's a compelling reason not to. And yet-another-new-exchange, even one targeted at institutional investors, is not a compelling reason.

Since you're 'not in the US' (not a US citizen?) this is sort of moot, but out of curiosity, what 'personal details' [unrelated to money laundering/tax evasion] do you worry about appearing in 'a government's database'? I mean, the ones that aren't already there?

>I reject without hesitation the argument that only criminals have something to hide.
So do I, so do I... That's [partly] why I've never suggested such a thing. OTOH, I'm somewhat at a loss as to what AML/KYC requirements you find to be particularly intrusive, and why the risk of said [damaging personal information] coming to light outweighs the reward of knowing that 99% of the trades aren't fake, that Anon won't front-run/otherwise bitch up your trades, or vanish into the interwebs with your coin without so much as okthxbi.
Could you elaborate?

Gemini's launch is not a failure as it is too young and it needs time to grow and settled things.I will say Gemini didn't fail and neither Bitcoin.Actually those who were dreaming to see rise in price they failed.Bitcoin doesn't depend on any exchange it is strong alone.

I'm almost certainly not a part of Gemini's target demographic, and I imagine very few Bitcointalk posters are either - though I seem to recall one poster who claimed to work at a fairly high level for one branch of JP Morgan. Gemini have gone to a great deal of trouble to ensure that they've jumped through the regulatory hoops necessary for US institutional investors to feel comfortable trading there. I'm not in the US, I'm not an institutional investor, and the BTC I'd be prepared to trade on one exchange is fairly meagre, so there's little advantage to me trading at Gemini.

Obviously rational traders want to reduce exchange risk as far as possible. But for many of us part of that risk is derived from, not mitigated by, regulation. I can transfer a few BTC to an exchange, trade a bit, and then transfer my BTC back to my control quickly and easily, with no risk that my personal details (except possibly my email address) end up being hacked, or, possibly worse, on a government's database. That's convenient, and also reassuring. I don't have the wealth to justify trading on Gemini - if I did, I could afford to consult legal counsel and take legal action as appropriate if they "shared" my personal information with hackers (and remember that that information would be far more extensive due to AML/KYC requirements). I'm not obliquely referencing the criminal element - I reject without hesitation the argument that only criminals have something to hide. To limit my risk I'd like to avoid sharing my financial information as much as possible. Obviously I have to share some information in some cases - when I take out a mortgage, etc. But a mortgage is a big thing, much bigger than the limited amount I'd risk on any one exchange. Fortunately there are still exchanges available to me that offer a far less onerous option.

Anyone want to shred some light on why the launch is a failure?

Perhaps 'proof' is too strong a word.  I meant proof in its purely conversational sense, more like 'show.'
Rigorous proof is hard, but a nod, you know, is as good as a wink to a blind horse.

As far as your lack of interest, I'm guessing you're not a part of Gemini's target demographic, 'institutional investors' (who, as I was led to believe, are chompin' at the bit to buy bitcoins, lacking only a legitimate, 'institutional investor'-friendly portal like Gemini).

As to there 'hopefully [being] money out there that wants the safety and security of a heavily regulated exchange"? Why wouldn't one want to trade on a safe, regulated exchange? Do investors typically crave risk without potential reward? Or are you obliquely referencing the criminal element, those who've 'managed to avoid the AML/KYC hoops'?

These are the right words. Thinking long term and having absolutely faith in the concept and technology of the Bitcoin Blockchain. I'm also checking more the fundamentals than the actual price.
Guys who are interested in a quick buck aren't here because of crypto. They are here for fiat money gainings.
I will give the winkle twinkle boys give some time to let their business thrive and evolve. Let's see what they will look like in 12 months.Then we can start complaining if nothing happened.

It's better to see an exchange show its real volume rather than turning 100btc real volume into 2000btc fake volume like Chinese exchanges do. People here nowadays are too spoiled. Holding Bitcoin is considered boring, while in fact it is not. People compare volumes to fake Chinese volumes, while in fact they are 10-20 times less than what they show. Face the reality and you'll be fine.

One or two weeks does not make an exchange
It needs time to grow and develop like any ecosystem the fact it has name recognition goes a long way towards that but trading volumes are still small for good reason.
A far to early call on it and it could still be a stepping stone towards larger projects.

Damn they just startup. Why people think the price would raise to the moon after the launch? Just give it some time. It's a good thing Gemini is started up. It's to fast to say it a complete failure.

Exactly i dont know why people were expecting tons of volume this early.  Gemini offers maybe a more legit way for people untrusting of other bitcoin trading platforms to get involved.

How does people not flocking to Gemini prove that exchanges fake volume?

I'm pretty certain some exchanges do fake volume, but I'm at a loss to see how action at Gemini (or the lack thereof) proves anything. I think Gemini is a great development for Bitcoin but I'm not going to trade there anytime soon - and my reasons have absolutely nothing to do with volume, fake or otherwise, at Gemini or elsewhere. There's inertia associated with moving exchange - why should people move from an exchange they're comfortable with (where they've either managed to avoid the AML/KYC hoops or they've already jumped through them once and would prefer not to do it again at a new exchange) unless there's a compelling reason? There's hopefully money out there that wants the safety and security of a heavily regulated exchange - but I doubt there's significant overlap between that and money already on unregulated/less-regulated exchanges.

I think you're mostly right but I dont think "all " exchanges fake their volumes. Most would seem to be a more appropriate term.

You're right, in a way.  Nothing wrong with Gemini--reasonable trading fees, US based (not in Kurdistan/Somalia/Mom's basement), known people backing it (as in "not Anon & Nony"), banking support, insured, regulated, etc., etc. What else can anyone want?
And yet... Dead.
People not flocking to Gemini proves what many have been telling you for years: exchanges fake volume.  But not just tweak it a bit, not just Chinese exchanges, not just 'a few' exchanges, and not just sometimes--all exchanges, most of the volume, all the time.
Gemini can't [fake volume] because regulated & unwilling to play fast & loose, so seems dead

how can you judge already that Gemini is a fail when it's recently launched?
give it more time and let more people see how Gemini will perform in the coming months

I wonder why all these posts are made by newbies with their first post. 
Maybe it is because they can abandon these accounts when the price starts shooting up again.

Just because the price did not shoot up way you expected, then it's a total failure? No. Fact is people these days are only interested in quick gains and nothing else, whether the core concept or technology means anything. But what I believe is fundamentals. Whether you have an etf that turns out a failure or success, is not going to change that

Yesterday was a bank holiday here in the US so I am not sure.  Time will certainly tell.

My bet's those deposits that 'haven't cleared yet' are simply face-saving fiction.  After all the hype about 'institutional investors waiting in the wings to buy bit coins,' gotta come up with some sort of excuse, no matter how flimsy, to rationalize the *total* absence of aforementioned, and *complete* lack of interest