German Bank announces to support Bitcoin; says it's important to own private key - page 3.

BlackHatCoiner

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 7340

Farewell, Leo

Quote from: 1miau on December 30, 2021, 08:48:42 PM

By selling / converting BTC, the bank would still make a profit and the article also mentions to sell education-courses for customers interested in Bitcoin (most likely inlcuding informational material).

So it's a business. May I assume they'll open up some sort of exchange in a subdomain of their webpage for buying and selling with crazy fees?

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on December 31, 2021, 03:29:15 PM

Hundreds of years ago banks were dealing with gold and other precious metal money, there's nothing that says that banks can't deal with Bitcoin. Bitcoin can't replace all financial services, it can only offer transferring and storing of money.

Sure, but people were handing out their gold to banks. Not the opposite.

slaman29

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 1226

Livecasino, 20% cashback, no fuss payouts.

Wow that sounds like a weird kind of news to me. Banks allowing people to actually own their private keys is a really, really big thing. Germany seems to be very ahead of the times when it comes to crypto, but I wonder how many actually own Bitcoin there. Germans I bet all know about Bitcoin but how many actually have real coins and only them control their own private keys, that could be a pointer for the rest of Europe to consider.

Dhaniii

full member

Activity: 728

Merit: 100

https://i.imgur.com/hgxNNiA.png

Quote from: Gyfts on December 30, 2021, 03:11:22 PM

Quote from: 1miau on December 30, 2021, 01:59:20 PM

Most important point: it’s important to own your Bitcoins:
The most important topic when trading or storing Bitcoin is to be owner of your so-called private key, (secret key allowing access to your Bitcoin). This is where our first considerations were made.

I don't think the vast majority of Bitcoin holders understand how important this concept is. Any coin to which you do not hold ownership of the private keys are not your coins, it's merely an agreement between you and the true owner of the private key that the coin is yours, subject to change on a whim by the private key's owner. The number of crypto investors that store their crypto on exchanges or 3rd party apps is palpable. Seeing a bank take this approach is refreshing.

the bank has realized that the biggest asset in the future is bitcoin. To avoid the occurrence of a bank operational stoppage as a result of the transfer of transactions from fiat money to digital money, of course, the latest innovations from banks are needed, however, they must have a system that can adopt bitcoin through the bank center. I think that's the good thing about German banks, before the government actually enforces digital money as a legal exchange, it must educate its customers first.

batang_bitcoin

hero member

Activity: 3080

Merit: 603

Quote from: 24Kt on December 31, 2021, 06:23:52 PM

Quote from: batang_bitcoin on December 31, 2021, 06:06:30 PM

I've seen a few banks having an interest in bitcoin but if this German bank is very popular and they're supporting bitcoin with millions of customers, it's truly good news that they're into it and have to educate their customers first. But what will be the reaction of their customers if they get to know that they can be their own bank instead of using banking service if it's just about deposits.

Some banks are already getting on board with crypto because they are realizing that people are getting into crypto even if banks have warnings of going into crypto market. So it is like, if you can't beat them, join them type scenario. So what they can do is face what is inevitable and just educate their customers about it. Some people will still use the banking system even if they learn how to be their own bank because they want third party security. Some of them don't want to hold their assets and they are just happy that someone is taking care of their funds.

Yeah, that's the logic. They're seeing that crypto is already in the mainstream and it's just a matter of time until everyone knows and have their own crypto portfolios.
Honestly, we still need the banks for some reasons like if you need to save your cash and you don't want to spend them and you have no vault in your house. But, it's really worth noting about their service which is centralized and bitcoin as decentralized.

24Kt

member

Activity: 1092

Merit: 67

Quote from: batang_bitcoin on December 31, 2021, 06:06:30 PM

I've seen a few banks having an interest in bitcoin but if this German bank is very popular and they're supporting bitcoin with millions of customers, it's truly good news that they're into it and have to educate their customers first. But what will be the reaction of their customers if they get to know that they can be their own bank instead of using banking service if it's just about deposits.

Some banks are already getting on board with crypto because they are realizing that people are getting into crypto even if banks have warnings of going into crypto market. So it is like, if you can't beat them, join them type scenario. So what they can do is face what is inevitable and just educate their customers about it. Some people will still use the banking system even if they learn how to be their own bank because they want third party security. Some of them don't want to hold their assets and they are just happy that someone is taking care of their funds.

batang_bitcoin

hero member

Activity: 3080

Merit: 603

I've seen a few banks having an interest in bitcoin but if this German bank is very popular and they're supporting bitcoin with millions of customers, it's truly good news that they're into it and have to educate their customers first. But what will be the reaction of their customers if they get to know that they can be their own bank instead of using banking service if it's just about deposits.

hatshepsut93

legendary

Activity: 3024

Merit: 2148

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 30, 2021, 03:20:30 PM

A good question is: Why would a bank want to give the option to their customers to hold bitcoin themselves? Isn't it against the whole point of a bank? I mean it's fine if they announce that they keep reserves in bitcoin, but why promoting it as a currency if it makes your business poorer?

Hundreds of years ago banks were dealing with gold and other precious metal money, there's nothing that says that banks can't deal with Bitcoin. Bitcoin can't replace all financial services, it can only offer transferring and storing of money.

Quote from: Welsh on December 30, 2021, 07:10:22 PM

I understand that not everyone wants to be completely responsible for their money, and therefore banks or some sort of third party is likely forever going to be needed. Although, I think by default at the very least the client should be offered what they want to do by default, and be explained without bias on what that exactly means.

You don't have to store all coins yourself or put all coins in bank, you might want to put some portion of your Bitcoin stash into bank and maybe earn interest on it or have it there in case something happens to your primary storage, or for easier inheritance and so on.

SFR10

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 3406

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: 1miau on December 30, 2021, 01:59:20 PM

1. All Volks- und Raiffeisenbanken in Germany will be likely to follow and have around 30 millions of customers.

Unfortunately, only a small portion of that number would probably convert or rather purchase BTCitcoin in the first few years ^{[I hope I'm wrong]}.

Quote from: 1miau on December 30, 2021, 01:59:20 PM

Only Bitcoin will be offered:

Amen to that!

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on December 30, 2021, 06:10:11 PM

For example, you can't lend Bitcoin in a decentralized way, so a bank would be needed for that.

I think I'm missing something here... How could any of the traditional banks, help you in lending your BTCitcoin in a decentralized way?

Quote from: SquirrelJulietGarden on December 31, 2021, 11:27:39 AM

It's only beginning. Bitcoin first and if they see that it is good, they will expand to other cryptocurrency. In the end, banks must maintain their customer and transaction activities because it affects bank income.

After reading that article twice, I'm convinced they're not a type of bank that would tarnish their reputation just to earn slightly more from other shitcoins!

Quote from: Google translated from https://www.profil.bayern/12-2021/praxis/bitcoin-wir-lassen-unsere-kunden-nicht-alleine/

We also offer customers a so-called "cold wallet". Corresponding products are currently being developed in our project.

That's interesting!

Quote from: Google translated from https://www.profil.bayern/12-2021/praxis/bitcoin-wir-lassen-unsere-kunden-nicht-alleine/

Another risk is the regulatory requirements and the dynamism of the regulatory environment. We may have to readjust our services if the legislature decides new rules.

The only part that I didn't like from reading that article ^{[I guess that's bound to happen at some point]}...

dothebeats

legendary

Activity: 3542

Merit: 1352

Cashback 15%

It's very rare to see a bank acknowledging bitcoin's benefits towards the common folk, because normally they would promote their service and their own products rather than other things that could potentially shadow what they are offering. Perhaps, banks in Germany really have a somewhat different business model that allows them to do things like this and still be on the safe side of things. Nevertheless, it's cool that a bank believes that bitcoin is a part of the future that we're all marching forward to.

SquirrelJulietGarden

hero member

Activity: 1442

Merit: 775

Quote from: 1miau on December 30, 2021, 01:59:20 PM

„We will only offer Bitcoin, not other Crypto assets. Quite simply because only Bitcoin is really a decentralized blockchain application and from our point of view only Bitcoin offers sufficient security against manipulation. All other crypto assets are not comparable to Bitcoin. Above all, they are not decentralized, but there are companies or business models behind influencing the respective Crypto value.“

It's only beginning. Bitcoin first and if they see that it is good, they will expand to other cryptocurrency. In the end, banks must maintain their customer and transaction activities because it affects bank income. They can not simply ignore Bitcoin or cryptocurrency if in future, people change to become more prefer Bitcoin and crypto for transactions.

Quote

„The most important topic when trading or storing Bitcoin is to be owner of your so-called private key, (secret key allowing access to your Bitcoin). This is where our first considerations were made.
Which trustworthy solutions can we offer for our customers? Many crypto platforms only give limited or no access to private keys because all Bitcoins are centrally stored on behalf of the customer.
[…] Bitcoin centrally stored by platforms is of course an interesting target for hackers. This also counteracts the decentralized storage in the Bitcoin blockchain. That's why we were looking for solutions in which the customer keeps his private key himself and can therefore own his Bitcoin himself.“

It sounds good but I don't believe it if it is given by banks. Banks are related to governments so they will do want to ask KYC and trace customer capital flows. If they don't store private keys of users, it will be like DEX. DEX with KYC and run by government-backed banks, it is something wrong.

Anyway, the adoption is great as a very promising beginning.

Poker Player

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 2017

I too was having a hard time understanding why a bank would want to shoot itself in the foot (from a traditional banking point of view) until I read this:

Quote from: 1miau on December 30, 2021, 08:48:42 PM

It's not uncommon for Volksbanken Raiffeisenbanken / Sparkasse in Germany because their business model is indeed very decentralized. It's called Genossenschaftsbank in Germany, somehow comparable to Cooperative banking. And in Germany, there are many partially independant, local branches (like for that Example Bayern Mitte (middle Bavaria)) and such banks are very customer friendly.

By selling / converting BTC, the bank would still make a profit and the article also mentions to sell education-courses for customers interested in Bitcoin (most likely inlcuding informational material).

Apart from that:

Quote from: m2017 on December 30, 2021, 03:06:48 PM

This can cause a chain reaction. Banks from other countries will also join this game in order to keep up with pioneers like German bank. That's when the fun begins when other bank start making such statements at the distillation.

What you say is very unlikely. What we are seeing here is the exception and not the norm. This is a special kind of bank, but big banking if it adopts Bitcoin is going to be to offer custodial services, Bitcoin-backed loans, etc. Precisely the Bitcoin originated against big banking, who, in addition to central banks, can also create money out of thin air thanks to the fractional reserve system.

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 10611

Quote from: 1miau on December 30, 2021, 08:48:42 PM

By selling / converting BTC,

Does this mean that this bank is going to start buying bitcoin so that they can sell it to customers who want it or does it mean that the bank is going to act like a centralized exchange and only receive commission for letting people trade in their platform?

michellee

hero member

Activity: 2604

Merit: 816

🐺Spinarium.com🐺 - iGaming casino

Hopefully, that can reach more people in Germany and increase awareness about bitcoin. If the banks finally realize the benefits of bitcoin, that will just be a matter of time to see bitcoin will grow fast in Germany. Yes, it is a bullish signal for bitcoin and that can help the price lift and break the highest price.

If more and more workshops are available in many places in Germany, people can learn it easily and understand how to use bitcoin. It is enough if they only learn about bitcoin as the main course of cryptocurrency as they can learn about altcoin later after they know what bitcoin is.

Lorence.xD

sr. member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 315

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: m2017 on December 30, 2021, 03:06:48 PM

This can cause a chain reaction. Banks from other countries will also join this game in order to keep up with pioneers like German bank. That's when the fun begins when other bank start making such statements at the distillation.

I can agree that a chain reaction might happen but our expected chain reaction aren't going to happen because some EU countries are definitely going to resist this one unless all or the most influential banks in each EU country would adopt bitcoin but if they're the big opposers then they will probably have a hard time.

DapanasFruit

member

Activity: 1218

Merit: 49

Binance #Smart World Global Token

As far as banks can be concerned, in my own opinion, this is going to be one of the best good news we can be hearing for a long time...or maybe not if other banks of the same nature and stature can be following the same path this bank is taking on Bitcoin. What is impressive is that this is not just a plan but there is a definite actions that are being and will be be taken - and central to that is educating their own employees and most probably their millions of customers on cryptocurrency and other related matters. And not to complicate things, the bank is not going to be the custody of the Bitcoin which their customers may choose to buy through them. Am I correct, that this German bank is acting like a broker for their many customers who can be enticed to invest with Bitcoin?

1miau

legendary

Activity: 2226

Merit: 6947

Currently not much available - see my websitelink

Quote from: hosseinimr93 on December 30, 2021, 02:48:09 PM

Quote from: jackg on December 30, 2021, 02:11:52 PM

4 is very interesting too but for usability the bank may also want to control (or at the very least) store backups of the private keys they issue their customers.

I read the article completely. It seems that they won't store users private keys and will let them to be the only and the real owner of their fund.

From the translated version of the article shared by 1miau (done by google translator):

Quote

The customer manages his private key himself, we have no way of accessing his Bitcoin, and so we do not store it.

That's also my impression from their description so far, that only the customer has access to his BTC but I don't know because it's not finalized yet and how it'll be implemented in detail.

Especially how it will look like when people buy BTC, there needs to be some centralized wallet and after that, the bought BTC will be sent to the address owned by the customer.
At least such a procedure would be normal.

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 30, 2021, 03:20:30 PM

A good question is: Why would a bank want to give the option to their customers to hold bitcoin themselves? Isn't it against the whole point of a bank? I mean it's fine if they announce that they keep reserves in bitcoin, but why promoting it as a currency if it makes your business poorer?

It's not uncommon for Volksbanken Raiffeisenbanken / Sparkasse in Germany because their business model is indeed very decentralized. It's called Genossenschaftsbank in Germany, somehow comparable to Cooperative banking. And in Germany, there are many partially independant, local branches (like for that Example Bayern Mitte (middle Bavaria)) and such banks are very customer friendly.

By selling / converting BTC, the bank would still make a profit and the article also mentions to sell education-courses for customers interested in Bitcoin (most likely inlcuding informational material).

After all, it's possible, that the bank and the customer end up having a profit.

mynonce

full member

Activity: 233

Merit: 253

Quote from: ShowOff on December 30, 2021, 07:56:11 PM

I don't wonder why they are willing to only support bitcoin "not altcoin" because I think they have studied it well and know all the innovation that exist in bitcoin.

From the way they teach bitcoin to many people, I'm sure they have studied it for a long time and compared how bitcoin is the only one among thousands of other cryptocurrencies. Yes it's only about bitcoin, not altcoin.

Streb: One thing first: We deal exclusively with Bitcoin, not with other crypto values. Quite simply for the reason that Bitcoin is the only real decentralized blockchain application and, from our point of view, only this offers sufficient security against manipulation. All other crypto values are not comparable to Bitcoin. Above all, they are not structured in a decentralized manner, but rather there are companies or business models behind them that can theoretically or also very practically influence the respective crypto value.

translation by Google

In short:
Bitcoin is the only real decentralized one, others can be manipulated.

ShowOff

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1181

Quote from: 1miau on December 30, 2021, 01:59:20 PM

It’s a very bullish signal if a board director of a German bank points out what’s important about Bitcoin (education about Bitcoin’s tech, supporting a really decentralized coin (no shitcoins), not your keys not your coins).
We would expect such statements from most long-time forum members, but it’s surprising to hear it from a board director of a German bank.
100% bullish.

When bank started considering bitcoin then I think they have knocked on the door of a lot of institutional investors to get more involved in this investment. I don't wonder why they are willing to only support bitcoin "not altcoin" because I think they have studied it well and know all the innovation that exist in bitcoin.

From the way they teach bitcoin to many people, I'm sure they have studied it for a long time and compared how bitcoin is the only one among thousands of other cryptocurrencies. Yes it's only about bitcoin, not altcoin.

Welsh

staff

Activity: 3304

Merit: 4115

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on December 30, 2021, 06:10:11 PM

I'm really not suprised, because Bitcoin is not a full replacement for banks, so it was always a possibility that banks would offer Bitcoin services and earn money with them. For example, you can't lend Bitcoin in a decentralized way, so a bank would be needed for that.

I'm only surprised by the way they're going about it; providing education to their employees, announcing only Bitcoin, and not any other Altcoin, and pushing the fact that owning a private key is important. Technically, they could offer their services without suggesting to own the private key, which speaks tenfold about their trustworthiness. Hopefully, they'll incorporate into their services that the client will be required to own the private key, and not just suggest it. I guess, if a client wanted too they could opt out, but by default it should be that way I think.

I understand that not everyone wants to be completely responsible for their money, and therefore banks or some sort of third party is likely forever going to be needed. Although, I think by default at the very least the client should be offered what they want to do by default, and be explained without bias on what that exactly means.

hatshepsut93

legendary

Activity: 3024

Merit: 2148

I'm really not suprised, because Bitcoin is not a full replacement for banks, so it was always a possibility that banks would offer Bitcoin services and earn money with them. For example, you can't lend Bitcoin in a decentralized way, so a bank would be needed for that.

Also, I'm really glad to see that Bitcoin maximalism is represented among the high-profile adopters, the world is starting to realize that blockchain technology and altcoins are not even 1% as useful as they claim to be/

Topic: German Bank announces to support Bitcoin; says it's important to own private key - page 3. (Read 772 times)