German government having second thoughts. - page 2.

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Quote from: darkangel11 on July 10, 2024, 04:18:39 PM

Quote from: skarais on July 09, 2024, 04:10:25 PM

FUD has been fueled by German Government, but some people seem to be starting to oppose the German action considering the adverse impact it is having on the markets. The German government should stop selling those bitcoins and should think of other ways if they really want to make money from them, one of which is selling them to OTC traders.

At this point I doubt they're dumb enough not to know what they're doing, especially after people in their own government told them that it's stupid to dump on spot markets when you can strike an OTC deal.
After all that was said they still sent more coins to spot markets. You could call that a mistake if it happened once or twice, but they've been at it for weeks now.

The German government knows exactly what it is doing. I am sure they have a plan and they are just following it. Regardless of the attack by many Bitcoin proponents which includes Member of the German Bundestag Joana Cotar they still want to offload the 50,000 confiscated bitcoins from Movie2K. I don't think they should stop selling because this is also a good time to buy. The market will still correct itself after some time.

Thankfully, after the dump, the German government will lose the power to influence the market in the future. I also think that the market has gotten used to the news of the German dump because it is not affecting the price of Bitcoin too much. The new is no longer generating FUD. I thought today's dump would have dropped the price of Bitcoin to $52k but the price is still high at $57k.

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Quote from: skarais on July 09, 2024, 04:10:25 PM

FUD has been fueled by German Government, but some people seem to be starting to oppose the German action considering the adverse impact it is having on the markets. The German government should stop selling those bitcoins and should think of other ways if they really want to make money from them, one of which is selling them to OTC traders.

At this point I doubt they're dumb enough not to know what they're doing, especially after people in their own government told them that it's stupid to dump on spot markets when you can strike an OTC deal.
After all that was said they still sent more coins to spot markets. You could call that a mistake if it happened once or twice, but they've been at it for weeks now.

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Quote from: darkangel11 on July 07, 2024, 02:46:07 PM

As a result people called out Germany for dumping bitcoin to manipulate the market and not being smart enough to sell OTC. There were even people who offered to buy their coins.

It clearly looks like they are trying to manipulate the market, because if they weren't, they would have sold their coins OTC, and then the effect on the price would have been very minimal. They have sold a lot of bitcoins in a very short time and we can only speculate the reason why, mind you that they still even have over 40k bitcoins in their reserve, so who knows what's to come later.

News like these does not look good for investors who are expecting bitcoin to rise as high as $100k before the end of the year, Mt. Gox is also planning to refund lost coins soon, the events so far are not looking to be favorable for bitcoin's price and $100k could take a longer time than expected.

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Quote from: philipma1957 on July 09, 2024, 07:28:22 PM

they are buying it and selling it to see how much they can manipulate the market.

I think so. They're also moving it to exchanges and back without trading. That's what they did with that last 2k that people thought was a buyback. They sent it to an exchange, back to their wallet, then sent 500 back to exchanges again divided into 2 halves.

They're trying to spook the market for some reason. The only thing that I can think of is there's a bank trying to either get into bitcoin, or make their competition who is in or trying to get in tap out due to volatility.

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Quote from: darkangel11 on July 07, 2024, 02:46:07 PM

So, as you guys probably know the most of this recent pullback was caused by two main factors. The German government selling bitcoins worth close to $400 million and a liquidation of long positions that this caused. As a result people called out Germany for dumping bitcoin to manipulate the market and not being smart enough to sell OTC. There were even people who offered to buy their coins. Finally, there were German politicians who questioned the move, since this not only was a loss for Germany, but also other market participants. They could easily get a better price if they sold OTC.
Now it looks like Germany pulled back the last 1915 BTC from exchanges, so it looks like we won't see any dumps from them for some time. Still, the damage was done, but maybe we needed some liquidations to move forward?
Here's the article.

Any government (of different countries) is not homogeneous in its composition and views. In the same way, in the German government there were both supporters (the majority) of the current sale of bitcoin, and opponents who believe that this valuable asset should be hold. Whatever it was, the current dump cannot be canceled and this rollback has already happened. Now you can breathe a sigh of relief that the fall has stopped and bitcoin has already risen slightly in price.

If we talk about the correctness or incorrectness of actions on the part of the German government, it is difficult to say, because they can invest this money received from the sale of bitcoin in other areas, but for the crypto industry their step turned out to be, to put it mildly, shocking and a test of the strength of nerves holders.

The liquidation has already been completed and let's hope that the road upward for the bulls will now have no obstacles.

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Quote from: DeathAngel on July 09, 2024, 10:13:30 AM

They will regret this when Bitcoin explodes to new high, after new high, after new high. What does a nation state possibly gain by selling Bitcoin. They have loads of national debt, they can print money whenever they want (they do) so why sell something that has a limited supply. It makes no sense, also the fact they are not selling OTC is very amateurish.

I very much agree!

I asked some people on social media who are from Germany and they say that Germany is a very well regulated country that gives fair rules to the cryptospace. They have blockchain companies there that operate within a jurisdiction that are not being treated similar to how uncle Gary treats companies in America.

They have also mentioned that if this will become very damaging for people who invest and who do business in the cryptospace, this might affect the votes of some candidates in their federal election on 2025.

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Quote from: coolcoinz on July 09, 2024, 03:31:44 PM

Quote from: DeathAngel on July 09, 2024, 10:13:30 AM

They will regret this when Bitcoin explodes to new high, after new high, after new high. What does a nation state possibly gain by selling Bitcoin. They have loads of national debt, they can print money whenever they want (they do) so why sell something that has a limited supply. It makes no sense, also the fact they are not selling OTC is very amateurish.

It's a tiny amount of money for a government. In Germany almost 40% of their GDP is tax income. Since they make 4.5 trillion a year, they make 2 trillion USD from taxes alone. Let's say they made 500m from their recent bitcoin sale. That's nothing! Even if they could make $50m more if they sold OTC all it's going to achieve is get some people blamed for this and kicked out but I bet these guys had some shorts set up prior to the dumping. Who wouldn't try to make some money, knowing what they knew?

Let's be done with it. I don't care what Germany does as long as they stop threatening the market and inducing fear by moving coins back and forth and imagine, that's exactly what they're doing. This isn't random, they aren't doing it to sell but fuel the FUD.

they are buying it and selling it to see how much they can manipulate the market.

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Quote from: coolcoinz on July 09, 2024, 03:31:44 PM

Quote from: DeathAngel on July 09, 2024, 10:13:30 AM

~~~

It's a tiny amount of money for a government. In Germany almost 40% of their GDP is tax income. Since they make 4.5 trillion a year, they make 2 trillion USD from taxes alone. Let's say they made 500m from their recent bitcoin sale. That's nothing! Even if they could make $50m more if they sold OTC all it's going to achieve is get some people blamed for this and kicked out but I bet these guys had some shorts set up prior to the dumping. Who wouldn't try to make some money, knowing what they knew?

Let's be done with it. I don't care what Germany does as long as they stop threatening the market and inducing fear by moving coins back and forth and imagine, that's exactly what they're doing. This isn't random, they aren't doing it to sell but fuel the FUD.

The German government has reasons why they should sell it, but they have also ignored what the impact of their sale would be since other sales solutions are rejected. Some investors are willing and offering to buy that bitcoin from the German government just because they don't want the price to be very bearish. But I agree, that there is something the German Government is thinking about that could also be in their favor.

FUD has been fueled by German Government, but some people seem to be starting to oppose the German action considering the adverse impact it is having on the markets. The German government should stop selling those bitcoins and should think of other ways if they really want to make money from them, one of which is selling them to OTC traders.

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Quote from: DeathAngel on July 09, 2024, 10:13:30 AM

They will regret this when Bitcoin explodes to new high, after new high, after new high. What does a nation state possibly gain by selling Bitcoin. They have loads of national debt, they can print money whenever they want (they do) so why sell something that has a limited supply. It makes no sense, also the fact they are not selling OTC is very amateurish.

It's a tiny amount of money for a government. In Germany almost 40% of their GDP is tax income. Since they make 4.5 trillion a year, they make 2 trillion USD from taxes alone. Let's say they made 500m from their recent bitcoin sale. That's nothing! Even if they could make $50m more if they sold OTC all it's going to achieve is get some people blamed for this and kicked out but I bet these guys had some shorts set up prior to the dumping. Who wouldn't try to make some money, knowing what they knew?

Let's be done with it. I don't care what Germany does as long as they stop threatening the market and inducing fear by moving coins back and forth and imagine, that's exactly what they're doing. This isn't random, they aren't doing it to sell but fuel the FUD.

DeathAngel

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They will regret this when Bitcoin explodes to new high, after new high, after new high. What does a nation state possibly gain by selling Bitcoin. They have loads of national debt, they can print money whenever they want (they do) so why sell something that has a limited supply. It makes no sense, also the fact they are not selling OTC is very amateurish.

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Quote from: Orpichukwu on July 07, 2024, 03:10:14 PM

I was reading another article earlier today, and the article stated that they bought back some bitcoin after the market dump as a result of panic selling as they moved that heavy amount of BTC to exchanges.

But from the information I got from X

Quote

Update: German Government BTC Movements German Government wallets received 1915 BTC ($111.5M) last night back from addresses linked to Kraken, Bitstamp and Coinbase. 1047.4 BTC ($57.2M) has been moved out of their wallets this morning: -547.4 BTC ($30.1M) to Flow Traders -500 BTC ($27.1M) to 139Po (likely deposit for institutional/OTC service)

It appears that maybe they actually did not sell off all the deposits they made across the 3 major exchanges; maybe their plan was probably to manipulate the market, or there could also be a possibility that they sold out some of those coins and later bought them back after the market dropped below $55,000.

Justin Sun also tweeted on x that he said he was willing to negotiate with the German government regarding the Bitcoin they sold in order to minimize the negative impact on the market. But whether it is a serious statement or not, it seems that Justin Sun also feels that something is quite risky if the German government continues to carry out massive sales. Moreover Long strength which is still believed to cause a bullish after the Halving is far from expected.

https://x.com/justinsuntron/status/1808828661401072092

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in addition to selling via Coinbase, Kraken and Bitstamp, the government has also recently sent large quantities of BTC to the market maker Flow Traders.
this gives the impression that the german government is trying to get rid of Bitcoin via otc. another indicator of this: transactions on FalconX or Cumberland.
the government is therefore trying to get rid of its coins in several ways. the majority is handled via otc trades, while smaller holdings are sold on conventional crypto exchanges; for security reasons, the government transfers BTC that does not find a buyer back to its own wallet.

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Quote from: cabron on July 08, 2024, 03:06:38 PM

The fact that the transactions were known to the public and it was publicly available information where they sent BTC to 3 exchanges is like they want people to also dump. And along with this, there is also Mt.Gox distribution. It was like a coordinated dumping party, they ditched FTX though as if it could clean its reputation.

But this is close to the government dumping and pumping BTC. They know El Salvador is mining BTC like it's the most valuable mineral to find in a quarry but the German government is throwing them. But who benefits from this act by the way?

Their government definitely has a financial advisor, they should consult him before this selling. But I'm guess it's not up to the German government to hold these coins.

The transaction discovered by arkham intelligence which entire project focused on tracking the movement of bitcoin especially from the big whales, german government have massive amount of BTC will definitely catch their attention not to mention it's sending to exchange address.
regardless I agree, their government should've done better with selling through OTC instead of right on dumping in the exchange creating massive panic, they could've gotten better price too.
but unfortunately, the public already shaken by the news, so yeah the fear & greed index already at the level of fear.

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Germany's next federal election on voting for their representatives in the Bundestag will be next year on October 2025 heheheh. If you are from Germany and you want your voices to be heard on stopping the dump on bitcoin, I reckon this might be a good chance for the bitcoin community in Germany to have a meeting and begin a campaign against politicians who are anticrypto. Do not vote for these people, they do not care for the cryptospace and the price of our cryptocoins heheheheh. Vote for the politicians who will pump our coins!

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Quote from: aoluain on July 08, 2024, 11:37:44 AM

To me it doesnt make sense why they would sell at this time, I mean they dont NEED
to sell those coins, they could ~~HODL~~ hold them until say next year when there is a
market push up. Who advised them to sell now? whoever it was do they not have
an understanding of the Bitcoin cycle and post halving historical trend?

The cynic in me thinks the government did this in order to create an opportunity
for themselves to buy cheap at a personal level...

it also gives everyone the same opportunity!

I don't know if the German government had a plan to sell at the beginning of July without thinking about the price going up or down?
Does the government also not care about the profits they get. the important thing is that they sell the confiscated proceeds?
It is certain that the government has advisors who understand the bitcoin cycle, it's just that we don't know why the German government is selling now.

Let an institution sell all the assets it has from confiscation, in the end this news will subside too, I don't care if this is profitable or not, what is clear is that this sale makes the price fall.

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Quote from: aoluain on July 08, 2024, 11:37:44 AM

To me it doesnt make sense why they would sell at this time, I mean they dont NEED
to sell those coins, they could ~~HODL~~ hold them until say next year when there is a
market push up. Who advised them to sell now? whoever it was do they not have
an understanding of the Bitcoin cycle and post halving historical trend?

The cynic in me thinks the government did this in order to create an opportunity
for themselves to buy cheap at a personal level...

it also gives everyone the same opportunity!

In essence, the bitcoin market is still very volatile and prices tend to easily fall by thousands of dollars when there is confirmation of large sales from any institution, including the government. Regardless of the German government's reasons for selling its bitcoin, we can only take the positive side that the bitcoin market is basically very easy to sway and take advantage of by certain groups with a lot of money. One sells in large quantities, the other buys and takes advantage of the panic. What kind of market game is this?

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Quote from: fuguebtc on July 08, 2024, 10:49:00 AM

They have no intention of reconsidering, they are continuing to deposit larger amounts of bitcoin into various exchanges today. After sending 155 million USD this morning, they also just sent 8100 BTC to exchanges, of which 200 million USD was sent to Flow Traders. My guess is that they are looking to sell out rather than hold any bitcoin and the bitcoin price continues to fluctuate with this news. In the short term, it looks like this will be negative news that causes panic and we need to brace ourselves. But in the long run, it will be good for us because ultimately we won't have any impact from them once they sell all those bitcoins.

https://x.com/ArkhamIntel/status/1810315954431176898

This is very interesting because they moved back that $2k and then some other articles claim that they send 500BTC worth $28m to exchanges today. Why would they take back 2k and days later send 25% out to be sold? Makes no sense, unless they had conflicting orders.
Ultimately the people who are doing it are low level employees. There are bosses who come and say sell it all, then call them saying we had a shit storm in the parliament about selling so maybe take that back for now, and then the next day the employees are being told to keep selling but at much slower pace 25% of what they used to do so the market can digest it.
I have no idea why they're doing it the way they are, but I know how it's done in institutions that follow a chain of command. Usually the smartest people are lower in rank but due to their position cannot fix the mistakes made by people higher up.

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Quote from: Odohu on July 08, 2024, 02:28:37 PM

Quote from: darkangel11 on July 07, 2024, 02:46:07 PM

So, as you guys probably know the most of this recent pullback was caused by two main factors. The German government selling bitcoins worth close to $400 million and a liquidation of long positions that this caused. As a result people called out Germany for dumping bitcoin to manipulate the market and not being smart enough to sell OTC. There were even people who offered to buy their coins. Finally, there were German politicians who questioned the move, since this not only was a loss for Germany, but also other market participants. They could easily get a better price if they sold OTC.
Now it looks like Germany pulled back the last 1915 BTC from exchanges, so it looks like we won't see any dumps from them for some time. Still, the damage was done, but maybe we needed some liquidations to move forward?
Here's the article.

What they did was pure market manipulation but it was ill-advised. Like you said, they would have gotten a better deal of they had sold through OTC but seems that was not their target. What I can make of the whole scenario is that they internationally dumped to lower the price so they could buy lower, this can be seen from their repeated selling and buying but then, the handlers seems not too smart about it. Well, I agree with you that we have passed that now and even if they would want a repeat of that, they will explore other options. The lucky people are those who used the dip to collect more Bitcoins... they are the real winners.

The fact that the transactions were known to the public and it was publicly available information where they sent BTC to 3 exchanges is like they want people to also dump. And along with this, there is also Mt.Gox distribution. It was like a coordinated dumping party, they ditched FTX though as if it could clean its reputation.

But this is close to the government dumping and pumping BTC. They know El Salvador is mining BTC like it's the most valuable mineral to find in a quarry but the German government is throwing them. But who benefits from this act by the way?

Their government definitely has a financial advisor, they should consult him before this selling. But I'm guess it's not up to the German government to hold these coins.

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Quote from: darkangel11 on July 07, 2024, 02:46:07 PM

So, as you guys probably know the most of this recent pullback was caused by two main factors. The German government selling bitcoins worth close to $400 million and a liquidation of long positions that this caused. As a result people called out Germany for dumping bitcoin to manipulate the market and not being smart enough to sell OTC. There were even people who offered to buy their coins. Finally, there were German politicians who questioned the move, since this not only was a loss for Germany, but also other market participants. They could easily get a better price if they sold OTC.
Now it looks like Germany pulled back the last 1915 BTC from exchanges, so it looks like we won't see any dumps from them for some time. Still, the damage was done, but maybe we needed some liquidations to move forward?
Here's the article.

What they did was pure market manipulation but it was ill-advised. Like you said, they would have gotten a better deal of they had sold through OTC but seems that was not their target. What I can make of the whole scenario is that they internationally dumped to lower the price so they could buy lower, this can be seen from their repeated selling and buying but then, the handlers seems not too smart about it. Well, I agree with you that we have passed that now and even if they would want a repeat of that, they will explore other options. The lucky people are those who used the dip to collect more Bitcoins... they are the real winners.

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To me it doesnt make sense why they would sell at this time, I mean they dont NEED
to sell those coins, they could ~~HODL~~ hold them until say next year when there is a
market push up. Who advised them to sell now? whoever it was do they not have
an understanding of the Bitcoin cycle and post halving historical trend?

The cynic in me thinks the government did this in order to create an opportunity
for themselves to buy cheap at a personal level...

it also gives everyone the same opportunity!

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