German VAT Ruling - On what exactly is VAT charged? - page 3.

Technomage

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Quote from: davout on August 19, 2013, 05:25:02 PM

Where did you hear that the VAT issue was solved in Germany ?
Where did you hear it was categorized in the same way as gold ?

Maybe I'm wrong here but I don't think that it was part of the whole Germany-recognizes-Bitcoin-as-private-currency thing.

Let me answer that in short: you're wrong here. Bitcoin is classified as a monetary instrument in Germany, exactly in the same category as gold and stocks. Capital tax was the focus in these announcements though. I agree that there has not been a statement specifically on VAT but I see no reason to assume that VAT would be handled any differently, it would be ridiculous.

davout

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Quote from: Technomage on August 19, 2013, 05:22:23 PM

The VAT issue has been problematic in the past, but it certainly isn't in Germany anymore. Bitcoin is categorized in the same category as gold and stocks which do NOT have anything to do with VAT (anywhere, pretty much) so the question is pretty much solved. As for how it works in other VAT countries, that is a different story.

Where did you hear that the VAT issue was solved in Germany ?
Where did you hear it was categorized in the same way as gold ?

Maybe I'm wrong here but I don't think that it was part of the whole Germany-recognizes-Bitcoin-as-private-currency thing.

Technomage

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Affordable Physical Bitcoins - Denarium.com

The VAT issue has been problematic in the past, but it certainly isn't in Germany anymore. Bitcoin is categorized in the same category as gold and stocks which do NOT have anything to do with VAT (anywhere, pretty much) so the problem has been solved. As for how it works in other VAT countries, that is a different story.

So the VAT does not apply to the full face value in theory or practice in Germany. This should be certain now. VAT only applies to service fees if you do brokering or something like that, but is never applied to full face value. That is the great advantage of Bitcoin being money. Money, moneylike instruments and gold never have VAT anywhere in any situation.

davout

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This is a very important question that smart people have been asking themselves for a couple of years now.

Theoretically the VAT applies to the full face value.

oblongmeteor

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I'm still slightly unclear on exactly where VAT is applied in respect to Bitcoin purchases within Germany. To copy an unanswered question from: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1koasj/germanys_ruling_on_bitcoin_paves_the_way_for_its/ :

Are you applying it to the full face value of the Bitcoin you purchased, or just the profit that resulted? For example; I buy a Bitcoin for 100 EUR and I sell it for 105 EUR. Should I have actually sold my 1 Bitcoin for 124.95 EUR (105 EUR + 19% VAT) or do I sell it for 105 EUR but then give the German government 0.95 EUR (19% of 5 EUR)?

The question is interesting because intrinsically, Bitcoin has no worth other than that which 'the market' attributes it. So, charging VAT on the face value would be akin to charging you 19% more to purchase a gift voucher that you only redeem for the face value. You wouldn't pay 120 EUR for a 100 EUR iTunes voucher, so... where does the VAT apply?

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