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Topic: Germany Selling of 49,858 BTC Cost them Huge Profits (Read 698 times)

hero member
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On a second thought, you are right because those Bitcoin were not product of investment so they will not really count it as a loss.  The Bitcoins were products of seizures made by the German government so there was no point considering them.as investment. In another perspective, and like you rightly said, the Bitcoin sales were permitted by their legislation which made it binding on anyone in control of them to sell them as required by law. I think everything followed their laws and process hence no point calling this a loss to them. However,  should they had known that Bitcoin will reach this high within that short interval, they would have still held because they were never facing any austerity measures.
So you say they don't have the idea that October, November are the bullish months even the first 10 to 15 days of December are also bullish and they sold their assets? They would not have sold if they had the more profit making mindset as many of the members including you also said they did not planned to make profit and underestimated the idea that they could have gain 2 more billions by just this selling and welcoming only 2 billion is seems to me a bit idiotic.

That's just I wanted to express, but as you and me said in the start that it's their funds, whatever they do, I know they are seized from the start even if you check the last topic I created it was on the same topic. So I know much about it and just wonder why they sold it all. But some members pointed out here that they have to liquidate the seizure funds of crypto within a year, and they seized it in Jan CMIIW and still they had 1 year so they could have sold now, but their selling gave many investors a good entry price and it was healthy for the market too.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 516
I know the news is very old about Germany selling 50k BTC, and this forum was full of such news, as most of us were in confusion about why they planned to sell these BTC when they could sell them at peak. So now we have seen BTC setting an ATH of $93,477, and Germany sold around 49,858 BTC at an average price of $53k. So they made a total of 2,642,454,000 USD back in July or August. If they had waited 2 to 3 months more, they would have been making $1.84 billion USD extra in profit if sold at $90k.

Timing peak and exiting at the right moment is not possible for everyone but at least they could have given it a second opinion Although I am no one to judge their decision, it's their loss  Tongue But they could have made more profit don't get what's the hurry to sell them.
What's the point of counting their lost profits now, they sold because their legislation required it, and they didn't invest their own money in these bitcoins, they just confiscated them, so for them it's just profit that they can now use at their own discretion. The state rarely strives for large investments, more often they focus on management processes and are engaged in budget allocation, and in order for them to be able to save their bitcoins they needed to redirect it to a special department that would deal with issues of state investment, and in the end they want to create a structure that will deal with bitcoin, because they did not have one.
On a second thought, you are right because those Bitcoin were not product of investment so they will not really count it as a loss.  The Bitcoins were products of seizures made by the German government so there was no point considering them.as investment. In another perspective, and like you rightly said, the Bitcoin sales were permitted by their legislation which made it binding on anyone in control of them to sell them as required by law. I think everything followed their laws and process hence no point calling this a loss to them. However,  should they had known that Bitcoin will reach this high within that short interval, they would have still held because they were never facing any austerity measures.
legendary
Activity: 2002
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Have you heard the proverb "A bird in hand is better than two in bush.".

The amount of money here was too big at stake and we do not know that the reason for them making the move. They might be in need of money for some purpose. If Bitcoin corrected from there and entered a bear market, their money might have got stuck for long time. So at least now they have money in hands and they sold in profit.

 My investing style can be different in comparison to you and we both can coexist.
Maybe they sold the coins because of some laws that mandated them to do that. However, they were not well advised because they made a big mistake. Even a layman knows that the price of Bitcoin would appreciate after a few months, so there was no need to sell at that time. Even if there was a law that mandates the sale, it could be stopped by a higher court. The only reasonable reason for the dump might be if the state of Saxony needed the money for an emergency. I think they would be regretting the sales now.      

If the high court can stop that and their goal is profit, I think they should not sell now but hold for a few more years. Because we all believe that bitcoin will hit $1 million in the coming years and maybe $10 million per bitcoin in the next 10-20 years. So they should not sell early and then regret it. Also, I think not only them but all of us should not sell bitcoin in this bull season because we will regret in the future when bitcoin price reaches $10 million.  Grin Grin Grin.

Not only the German government, even investors who sold their bitcoins for $1k or $10k in the past, I don't see anything wrong with them. Because that was the goal and they achieved it, and they are enjoying their rewards. We should not and have no right to judge anyone because each person's goals are different. We should invest with a clear plan and goal instead of investing with bottomless greed because the future is unpredictable.
sr. member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 426
Hindsight is 20/20, no one could've known that the price pump is ever going to happen to bitcoin this early or fast, and probably, with all the analytics back then that's saying that bitcoin might be experiencing a winter, and that could've affected the decision of the German government to sell at such a price, I mean back when the price was still at 20k and 40k range we never could've fathomed that the price of bitcoin would get to this point, this fast even with the halving to help insure that the pump is happening, it's just human nature to be cautious I guess, they want their money out and they got it, in fact, why are we feeling so bad about them when they still got billions out of selling those bitcoins anyway?
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 5937
I think you mean to say "close to 500 Billion euro" not million, right?
Yeah you are right, I meant to write 500 billion. Anyway, its been fixed now, thanks.

With that being corrected, I have to say that I find yours and similar threads/discussions quite pointless, as they remind me of those "if you invested $1k in bitcoin in 2010, today you would have xyz millions of dollars", that we see every bull run.
hero member
Activity: 574
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Have you heard the proverb "A bird in hand is better than two in bush.".

The amount of money here was too big at stake and we do not know that the reason for them making the move. They might be in need of money for some purpose. If Bitcoin corrected from there and entered a bear market, their money might have got stuck for long time. So at least now they have money in hands and they sold in profit.

 My investing style can be different in comparison to you and we both can coexist.
Maybe they sold the coins because of some laws that mandated them to do that. However, they were not well advised because they made a big mistake. Even a layman knows that the price of Bitcoin would appreciate after a few months, so there was no need to sell at that time. Even if there was a law that mandates the sale, it could be stopped by a higher court. The only reasonable reason for the dump might be if the state of Saxony needed the money for an emergency. I think they would be regretting the sales now.      
sr. member
Activity: 1288
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Have you heard the proverb "A bird in hand is better than two in bush.".

The amount of money here was too big at stake and we do not know that the reason for them making the move. They might be in need of money for some purpose. If Bitcoin corrected from there and entered a bear market, their money might have got stuck for long time. So at least now they have money in hands and they sold in profit.

 My investing style can be different in comparison to you and we both can coexist.
The amount is too big for an individual but not too big for a state government, which rolls in billions every month. In line with why they sold out the bitcoin they have in their possession, what was not disclosed in public could be that they just want to let go of it, or the money was used to settle off some little project that needed funding, which was not included in the budget, whichever be the case.

I don't think they are ever going to regret their action; they have already recorded it as something of the past. We are just the ones here arguing about how much profit they could have made if they sold with the current price.
hero member
Activity: 1428
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Btw, Germany budget for 2024 is close to 500 million euro, so I don't think that anyonne there missed some sleep due fact that if they waited longer, they could get few billion more. In the grand scheme of things, that amount means nothing to them.
I think you mean to say "close to 500 Billion euro" not million, right? You are right considering the amount of their budget., this unrealized profit would worth nothing to them.

Now based on speculation Poland has an election coming up too and chances have it that bitcoin could pump too after the election is over just like that of the US anyways like I said earlier let's see how it turns out. The pump may happen but I doubt if the effect would be as intense as that if the US shortly after the election.
It's my first time hearing that Poland's presidential elections are near and it seems like there is no hype of such news either so no hype means no effect on the price of BTC. Actually this all effect from politics on the BTC is nothing but a concept similar to "Buy the news" and when something bad is going to happen, it will be identical to "Sell the news"

We're like Germany, thinking of how much it would have costed us when we've sold too early.

Damn, this is making me remember the old times on how many BTCs I have sold in the past but no regrets, I've used the money properly and maybe same goes for the Germany government.
Happy for you and the same goes for Germany but I am sure members are saying here that they didn't have the mind of an investor with this holding, while I think they must have as they bought BTC after selling and then sold, although It just not fit to the mind that they don't care for profit because in this world, hehe everyone cares for profit, it's just they had rules and according to them within 1 year they have to sell them.

If they had such an investment plan
Maybe from now on, they will create an investment plan as you are right they can't just make decisions like we can, hey let's hold them and make more profit in upcoming years. They must have gone through from a proper procedure and maybe anyone has proposed the idea of not selling.
member
Activity: 302
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I know the news is very old about Germany selling 50k BTC, and this forum was full of such news, as most of us were in confusion about why they planned to sell these BTC when they could sell them at peak. So now we have seen BTC setting an ATH of $93,477, and Germany sold around 49,858 BTC at an average price of $53k. So they made a total of 2,642,454,000 USD back in July or August. If they had waited 2 to 3 months more, they would have been making $1.84 billion USD extra in profit if sold at $90k.

Timing peak and exiting at the right moment is not possible for everyone but at least they could have given it a second opinion Although I am no one to judge their decision, it's their loss  Tongue But they could have made more profit don't get what's the hurry to sell them.

Have you heard the proverb "A bird in hand is better than two in bush.".

The amount of money here was too big at stake and we do not know that the reason for them making the move. They might be in need of money for some purpose. If Bitcoin corrected from there and entered a bear market, their money might have got stuck for long time. So at least now they have money in hands and they sold in profit.

 My investing style can be different in comparison to you and we both can coexist.


Perhaps from a risk management perspective they were not wrong to sell at the time. But when you sell a large amount of something you should do so wisely. But it appears the German government attempted to dump its bitcoin all at once. The problem with flooding the market with a large amount of something drives down prices and makes it difficult to get your sell orders filled at a good price, if at all. Which is what happened.

Liquidating a large amount of an asset should be done gradually over a period of time to avoid such problems. The timing and the way Germany did it shows that they panic sold at or near the bottom, like an amateur retail investor would commonly do. Any good investment advisor would tell you that is the worst way to do it. But then they probably didn't care as the assets were seized and they didn't really "lose" any money.
sr. member
Activity: 742
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I know the news is very old about Germany selling 50k BTC, and this forum was full of such news, as most of us were in confusion about why they planned to sell these BTC when they could sell them at peak. So now we have seen BTC setting an ATH of $93,477, and Germany sold around 49,858 BTC at an average price of $53k. So they made a total of 2,642,454,000 USD back in July or August. If they had waited 2 to 3 months more, they would have been making $1.84 billion USD extra in profit if sold at $90k.

Timing peak and exiting at the right moment is not possible for everyone but at least they could have given it a second opinion Although I am no one to judge their decision, it's their loss  Tongue But they could have made more profit don't get what's the hurry to sell them.

I think there will be a reason why they sell their BTC with that price and at that moment, I believe some of them will sell their Bitcoin that time, the reason why I said there will be a reason why they sell their Bitcoin is that we all invest in Bitcoin to earn profit and we also know that the future of Bitcoin is going to be Bright in future, but selling Bitcoin when we are still expecting more with it we should know that there will be a reason why the person sells it.

But from looking at it again there are some people among those who sell their Bitcoin because they don't think the price will rise again, some of them will buy Bitcoin at a low price and when they see that they have made a profit they will sell it, it will be good if we understand what Bitcoin is all about because from my observation those people are not real investors, Real investors wait for the right time and achieve a big profit.
full member
Activity: 1470
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I know the news is very old about Germany selling 50k BTC, and this forum was full of such news, as most of us were in confusion about why they planned to sell these BTC when they could sell them at peak. So now we have seen BTC setting an ATH of $93,477, and Germany sold around 49,858 BTC at an average price of $53k. So they made a total of 2,642,454,000 USD back in July or August. If they had waited 2 to 3 months more, they would have been making $1.84 billion USD extra in profit if sold at $90k.

Timing peak and exiting at the right moment is not possible for everyone but at least they could have given it a second opinion Although I am no one to judge their decision, it's their loss  Tongue But they could have made more profit don't get what's the hurry to sell them.

Have you heard the proverb "A bird in hand is better than two in bush.".

The amount of money here was too big at stake and we do not know that the reason for them making the move. They might be in need of money for some purpose. If Bitcoin corrected from there and entered a bear market, their money might have got stuck for long time. So at least now they have money in hands and they sold in profit.

 My investing style can be different in comparison to you and we both can coexist.
hero member
Activity: 1414
Merit: 542
I know the news is very old about Germany selling 50k BTC, and this forum was full of such news, as most of us were in confusion about why they planned to sell these BTC when they could sell them at peak. So now we have seen BTC setting an ATH of $93,477, and Germany sold around 49,858 BTC at an average price of $53k. So they made a total of 2,642,454,000 USD back in July or August. If they had waited 2 to 3 months more, they would have been making $1.84 billion USD extra in profit if sold at $90k.

Timing peak and exiting at the right moment is not possible for everyone but at least they could have given it a second opinion Although I am no one to judge their decision, it's their loss  Tongue But they could have made more profit don't get what's the hurry to sell them.

I don't think that they are after the profits though, it's government, so they will just like to dispose it as it is just a seized Bitcoin for them, nothing more, nothing less.

If the government then think of it as a investment then for sure they are not going to sell them.

So for them, what they did is correct, regardless if the price is going to $100k or beyond in this bull run.
legendary
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I know the news is very old about Germany selling 50k BTC, and this forum was full of such news, as most of us were in confusion about why they planned to sell these BTC when they could sell them at peak. So now we have seen BTC setting an ATH of $93,477, and Germany sold around 49,858 BTC at an average price of $53k. So they made a total of 2,642,454,000 USD back in July or August. If they had waited 2 to 3 months more, they would have been making $1.84 billion USD extra in profit if sold at $90k.

Timing peak and exiting at the right moment is not possible for everyone but at least they could have given it a second opinion Although I am no one to judge their decision, it's their loss  Tongue But they could have made more profit don't get what's the hurry to sell them.

What's the point of counting their lost profits now, they sold because their legislation required it, and they didn't invest their own money in these bitcoins, they just confiscated them, so for them it's just profit that they can now use at their own discretion. The state rarely strives for large investments, more often they focus on management processes and are engaged in budget allocation, and in order for them to be able to save their bitcoins they needed to redirect it to a special department that would deal with issues of state investment, and in the end they want to create a structure that will deal with bitcoin, because they did not have one.
hero member
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Bitcoin took the heavy fall for it at the time to the point that people started digging deeper into what could have warranted the fall. Now, they may be disappointed in a way, but I do not think the syndicate will feel it much because the selling is not 100% by the government though the government sold as well but was from the eastern German state of Saxony.

Perhaps many have bought back Bitcoin with another arrangement that nobody will be able to trace to them. The selling was due to the government clamping down on the people, so they may still have their assets stashed somewhere. Even at that, the German government still have over 32,488 BTC that was not sold, so they can't lose entirely.
sr. member
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The German government shouldn't be seen as an investor here.
They are actually not investors.

Quote
They already converted a Bitcoin into Euro that was not theirs. According to legal regulations, there are conditions under which this conversion must be made, as long as they meet these conditions, there is no problem.
A government agency, law enforcement agency, they have to obey to existing laws and conversion of confiscated bitcoins from criminals. They only can hold these bitcoins if existing law is updated and allows them to hold these coins with valid reason of that decision.

Quote
I don't think they have the right to say that the value of Bitcoin will rise, let's hold these Bitcoin and then sell them from the top.
They don't know where is the top, like Bitcoin investors don't know where is Bitcoin ATH. So any plan to hold bitcoin and sell higher is always risky. Chance to increase the money from conversion as well as risk to see the conversion value drops lower.

They have no valid reasons to buy headache for themselves, as said they're not investors.
EFS
staff
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The German government shouldn't be seen as an investor here. They already converted a Bitcoin into Euro that was not theirs. According to legal regulations, there are conditions under which this conversion must be made, as long as they meet these conditions, there is no problem. I don't think they have the right to say that the value of Bitcoin will rise, let's hold these Bitcoin and then sell them from the top. If they had such an investment plan, they would've already collected Bitcoin with treasury resources. You have to distinguish between these two different situations. What would you say if the opposite happened, if the price of Bitcoin fell and the German government was criticized for not converting them into Euro in time? Smiley
legendary
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Also in German law, government agencies are not permitted to make profits from the proceeds of crime
and that is what those Bitcoin were, they were confiscated.

SO the German government had to sell those Bitcoin when they are available to do so, they were confiscated
in the first place so they are technically in profit anyway.

Some of it is true, some is not.
They had other choices. They could have put that on auction, or sold to a private contractor OTC. There's no rule of law saying they have to dump it on one of the exchanges.

Also, things like that can be voted on and decided case by case. Imagine that a drug lord buys a castle and that castle is taken away as proceeds of crime when he's convicted. According to you the government cannot own that castle and, for instance, run art exhibitions in there, or make it available for public in any other way. It has to sell it because it was bought with drug money.
Private property can become public and the other way round.
hero member
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We're like Germany, thinking of how much it would have costed us when we've sold too early.

Damn, this is making me remember the old times on how many BTCs I have sold in the past but no regrets, I've used the money properly and maybe same goes for the Germany government.
sr. member
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I think the reason for all this miscalculated sell time is because the actual Bitcoin wasn't originally of the German government as the coins were confiscated which makes it a free profit for the government so selling at the right time wouldn't actually be their so goal rather just converting it to their fait alone would be a win for them. Although I understand the fact still this particular point here is gonna be the big question for any nation that decides to join the circle and race of Bitcoin investment.
Yeah you have a point. Sometimes I really don't fancy the idea of directly associating bitcoin with politics though political decisions and matters can affect it. At first I really didn't fancy the idea that if trump should win the election, bitcoin will definitely pump however it turned out to be true.

Now based on speculation Poland has an election coming up too and chances have it that bitcoin could pump too after the election is over just like that of the US anyways like I said earlier let's see how it turns out. The pump may happen but I doubt if the effect would be as intense as that if the US shortly after the election.
hero member
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Germany's decision to sell 49,858 BTC at $53K Which should probably around ($2.64B) instead of waiting for higher prices like our current ($90K+) kinda sparks debate. The fact is if you should calculate, the sale missed potential additional profits of about $1.84B. there are a couple of factors that affected the decision likely regulatory requirements, financial goals and market uncertainty.

The fact is even as a retail or individual HODLERs compare to governmental bodies too, Identifying optimal sell times can be quite challenging. The idea behind the motive probably could have been that if bitcoin are fallen below that price then it would be in much bigger losses that if they even bought the Bitcoin in the first place.

I think the reason for all this miscalculated sell time is because the actual Bitcoin wasn't originally of the German government as the coins were confiscated which makes it a free profit for the government so selling at the right time wouldn't actually be their so goal rather just converting it to their fait alone would be a win for them. Although I understand the fact still this particular point here is gonna be the big question for any nation that decides to join the circle and race of Bitcoin investment.
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