Germany's Chancellor Merkel "firmly" rejects calls to change refugee policy desp - page 2.

criptix

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Quote from: markj113 on July 31, 2016, 10:29:27 AM

Quote from: criptix on July 31, 2016, 10:20:23 AM

Germany is safer and has less crime then the UK even though we took in 950.000+ more refugees that you.

Your welcome to keep them too, just dont come looking to the UK and the rest of the EU for a hand out to pay for them Wink

€50 billion cost by 2017 lol Grin

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12135244/Migrant-crisis-to-cost-Germany-50-billion-by-2017.html

Thank god for Brexit.

p.s. the link to your "crime" stats state "Worries" i.e. not actual crimes Wink

I didnt see that post so let me answer it for you because you are too lazy to research the IfO and similiar studies zz....:

These studies are under the premise that the number of new refugee stays at the same level as of 2015 (as of july 2016 we had nearly no new refugees in comparison to 2015) and addition they only calculate gross expenses.

If you look at studies which included taxes, working refugees and so on germany will have a net positive economical effect from the refugees beginning 2020-2022 depending on numbers used (IMF, IfO, Deutsche Bundesbank).

@numbeo

Mark i think you should take a closer look at this website.
The first paragraph states:

Level of crime = Crime Rate

virtualx

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Quote from: criptix on July 31, 2016, 09:42:17 AM

Anyone who learned statistics knows that this is not significant.

Every terror attack is significant and terrible.
Terror attacks in EU could be rising:

Quote

2000: 2
2001: 0
2002: 2
2003: 1
2004: 2
2005: 1
2006: 0
2007: 1
2008: 0
2009: 2
2010: 4
2011: 2
2012: 4
2013: 1
2014: 2
2015: 7
2016: 10

criptix

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Quote from: markj113 on July 31, 2016, 11:19:32 AM

I dont agree with far right politics but you cant deny that they are gathering significantly more support in France, Hungary etc.

This is the symptom of failed multiculturism forced upon the people in unsustainable numbers and not that suddenly everyone just woke up one morning and became racist.

-snip-

I agree with you that the far right got more support in the last 5 years and one of the reasons were the refugee policy.

But i wouldnt say it is caused by the immigrants per se (e.g. significant crime rate increase) but rather the fear mongering and populism of far right parties paired with real structural problems regarding globalisation.

markj113

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I dont agree with far right politics but you cant deny that they are gathering significantly more support in France, Hungary etc.

This is the symptom of failed multiculturism forced upon the people in unsustainable numbers and not that suddenly everyone just woke up one morning and became racist.

criptix

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Quote from: markj113 on July 31, 2016, 11:10:34 AM

Quote from: criptix on July 31, 2016, 11:05:28 AM

Wait, why are we talking about Sweden now? Did i miss something? Roll Eyes

Please go back to Germany and the comparison of crime rates between UK and Germany under the view of immigration.

I cant really say much about the scadinavian nations because im a german citizien and not familiar with their politics, culture and society - but it seems for me that there exist a deeper problem then just the number of immigrants.

Its not really their politics, culture and society that is the problem is it?

The immigrants causing the issues in Sweden are just the same as those travelling to Germany and the rest of the EU are they not?

The people of the EU have had enough and it its really not hard to spot the uprising beginning.

The far right are gathering more support by the day and the end result will not be pretty.

No they arent. Scadinavian nations are taking in immigrants since several decades.
And yes it must have to do with something else because the crime rate of refugees in scadinavia is like 3-5 times that of rest europe.

And regarding Germany, we took in like 90% of all refugees of 2014-2016 and they are staying in Germany.

The people of the EU? You? The majority is still intelligent enough to see through the right wing bull shit.

The question is:
How long will it take to integrate the refugees in our society?

E.g. my parents are renting an appartment to three syrian refugees right now, all three of them have academic titles - people that we will need in the future.

markj113

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Quote from: criptix on July 31, 2016, 11:05:28 AM

Wait, why are we talking about Sweden now? Did i miss something? Roll Eyes

Please go back to Germany and the comparison of crime rates between UK and Germany under the view of immigration.

I cant really say much about the scadinavian nations because im a german citizien and not familiar with their politics, culture and society - but it seems for me that there exist a deeper problem then just the number of immigrants.

Its not really their politics, culture and society that is the problem is it?

The immigrants causing the issues in Sweden are just the same as those travelling to Germany and the rest of the EU are they not?

The people of the EU have had enough and it its really not hard to spot the uprising beginning.

The far right are gathering more support by the day and the end result will not be pretty.

criptix

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Quote from: markj113 on July 31, 2016, 10:44:06 AM

After South Africa, Sweden has the 2nd highest rate of rape in the world, I wonder why?

2. Sweden

Countries For Rape Crimes Sweden
Sweden now has the second highest number of rapes in the world, after South Africa, which at 53.2 per 100,000. Statistics now suggest that 1 out of every 4 Swedish women comes out to be the victim of rape. If you look at the number of rapes, however, the increase is even worse. In 1975, there were only 421 rapes reported to the police – in 2014, it was 6,620. That is an increase of 1,472%. It would seem Sweden is a much more dangerous place for women in the world.

Sweden has the highest rate of rape in Europe. In 2013, according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå), there were 63 rape cases per 100,000 population reported to the Swedish police.

According to rape crisis advocates in Sweden, 1 out of 3 Swedish women have been sexually assaulted by the time they leave their teens. During the first half of 2013, more than 1,000 Swedish women reported being raped by Muslim immigrants in the Stockholm; over 300 of those were under the age of 15.

Wait, why are we talking about Sweden now? Did i miss something? Roll Eyes

Please go back to Germany and the comparison of crime rates between UK and Germany under the view of immigration.

I cant really say much about the scadinavian nations because im a german citizien and not familiar with their politics, culture and society - but it seems for me that there exist a deeper problem then just the number of immigrants.

If you people want to have a proper discussion please retain atleast a minimum of standards.
Dont change the topic because rape by immigrants are higher somewhere else in the world - it is about germany here.

markj113

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After South Africa, Sweden has the 2nd highest rate of rape in the world, I wonder why?

2. Sweden

Countries For Rape Crimes Sweden
Sweden now has the second highest number of rapes in the world, after South Africa, which at 53.2 per 100,000. Statistics now suggest that 1 out of every 4 Swedish women comes out to be the victim of rape. If you look at the number of rapes, however, the increase is even worse. In 1975, there were only 421 rapes reported to the police – in 2014, it was 6,620. That is an increase of 1,472%. It would seem Sweden is a much more dangerous place for women in the world.

Sweden has the highest rate of rape in Europe. In 2013, according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå), there were 63 rape cases per 100,000 population reported to the Swedish police.

According to rape crisis advocates in Sweden, 1 out of 3 Swedish women have been sexually assaulted by the time they leave their teens. During the first half of 2013, more than 1,000 Swedish women reported being raped by Muslim immigrants in the Stockholm; over 300 of those were under the age of 15.

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Quote from: mOgliE on July 31, 2016, 08:23:29 AM

Quote from: markj113 on July 31, 2016, 07:53:32 AM

@ m0gliE,

So the rape epidemic linked to muslim immigrants is purely down to the fact that need more cash in the bank lol.

I would say its more of a cultural problem where women are viewed as second class citizens in their home country and they bring the problem with them.

There is always a % of an indiginous population of any country that are poor yet they dont run around in large gangs mass raping multiple women like packs of animals.

I wonder if you would remain as enlightened if your mother, wife or daughter were on the receiving end of some cultural enrichment.

Cultural differences are absorbed when a country is in a stable economical situation that's all I'm saying. When people work they don't go around in groups of 150 like they did in Munchen. They don't spend there whole day drinking and smoking in the street looking at women. So yeah number of rapes is DEEPLY linked to the inactivity of people committing them.

For your last remark... it's not an argument. That's the difference between justice and revenge, individuals and collectivity... if you're not even able to make it, I don't think you can think about any political situation.

Id disagree that cultural differences are absorbed when a country is in a stable economical situation. Even if these guys are working they still see things the way they do which means woman are possessions that can be treated how they please. And i don't know how you can't connect terrorism and refugees. Of course more terrorists are going to flood in if they can get in easier as refugees. Open borders is not an option.

markj113

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Quote from: criptix on July 31, 2016, 10:20:23 AM

Germany is safer and has less crime then the UK even though we took in 950.000+ more refugees that you.

Your welcome to keep them too, just dont come looking to the UK and the rest of the EU for a hand out to pay for them Wink

€50 billion cost by 2017 lol Grin

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12135244/Migrant-crisis-to-cost-Germany-50-billion-by-2017.html

Thank god for Brexit.

p.s. the link to your "crime" stats state "Worries" i.e. not actual crimes Wink

criptix

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Oh allright, you are that guy who believes the german gubberment to cover every rapefugee - but in the same sentence using german gubberment statistics of rapefugee crimes.

Oh the irony.

Also lets not differ which crime they did and say all crimes are equally bad:

69.000/1.000.000 = 6.9%
(Its more then 1 million but just for the sake of easy calculations)

Kick the 6.9% out idc - still 1 million in germany.
You see there is no crime wave over germany, the numbers are not significant.

I found something that might should interest you:

http://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Germany&country2=United+Kingdom

Germany is safer and has less crime then the UK even though we took in 950.000+ more refugees that you.
How would you explain it?

markj113

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Quote from: criptix on July 31, 2016, 09:42:17 AM

Moglie answers were pretty spot on.

Just one more statistic:

Germany had over 1 million immigrants last year and we had around 300 cases of sexual violence (including rape and over 250 on new years eve) and 3 cases of terrorist acts (0 deaths).

Anyone who learned statistics knows that this is not significant. It is sad to say it but stuff like that is bound to happen if the number of citizens/immigrants is great enough (law of large numbers).

And im not only talking about new immigrants because e.g. on new years eve there were perpetrators from maghreb states.

300 cases of sexual violence, I wonder if that is a true reflection considering the German authorities tried to cover a lot of it up as it didnt fit the political narative?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-police-ordered-to-remove-word-rape-from-reports-into-new-year-s-eve-sexual-assaults-a6972471.html

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that-covers-up-mass-sex-attacks-by-migrant-men-swedens-record-is-shameful/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12085182/Cover-up-over-Cologne-sex-assaults-blamed-on-migration-sensitivities.html

Migrants linked to 69,000 would-be or actual crimes in Germany in first three months of 2016
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-crime-idUSKCN0YT28V

The report showed that 29.2 percent of the crimes migrants committed or tried to commit in the first quarter were thefts, 28.3 percent were property or forgery offences and 23 percent offences such as bodily harm, robbery and unlawful detention.

Drug-related offences accounted for 6.6 percent and sex crimes accounted for 1.1 percent.

They need to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

Any immigrants caught committing a crime should be instantly deported with no questions asked leaving the honest ones to remain.

criptix

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Moglie answers were pretty spot on.

Just one more statistic:

Germany had over 1 million immigrants last year and we had around 300 cases of sexual violence (including rape and over 250 on new years eve) and 3 cases of terrorist acts (0 deaths).

Anyone who learned statistics knows that this is not significant. It is sad to say it but stuff like that is bound to happen if the number of citizens/immigrants is great enough (law of large numbers).

And im not only talking about new immigrants because e.g. on new years eve there were perpetrators from maghreb states.

mOgliE

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Quote from: markj113 on July 31, 2016, 07:53:32 AM

@ m0gliE,

So the rape epidemic linked to muslim immigrants is purely down to the fact that need more cash in the bank lol.

I would say its more of a cultural problem where women are viewed as second class citizens in their home country and they bring the problem with them.

There is always a % of an indiginous population of any country that are poor yet they dont run around in large gangs mass raping multiple women like packs of animals.

I wonder if you would remain as enlightened if your mother, wife or daughter were on the receiving end of some cultural enrichment.

Cultural differences are absorbed when a country is in a stable economical situation that's all I'm saying. When people work they don't go around in groups of 150 like they did in Munchen. They don't spend there whole day drinking and smoking in the street looking at women. So yeah number of rapes is DEEPLY linked to the inactivity of people committing them.

For your last remark... it's not an argument. That's the difference between justice and revenge, individuals and collectivity... if you're not even able to make it, I don't think you can think about any political situation.

mOgliE

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Quote from: helloeverybody on July 31, 2016, 05:17:07 AM

Quote from: mOgliE on July 31, 2016, 04:33:41 AM

Quote from: helloeverybody on July 31, 2016, 04:09:31 AM

Quote from: Lethn on July 30, 2016, 10:54:44 PM

They're not fucking refugees either, even the EU is openly admitting that they don't qualify for refugee status and many of them are actually economic migrants, I'm fucking sick of this. I hope that Theresa May doesn't screw us over on the EU issue like so many are wanting because I am convinced people like Merkel will fuck us over big time.

Call me paranoid, but I think one of the reasons the EU was so desperate for the UK to keep us in was not only so we would have to pay to keep all these migrants but it would also mean she could just dump the problem on us like with France. So rather than having to actually deal with the problem or deport them she could simply let them cross the borders freely and end up looking like a hero while the migrants from the middle east go and trash another country.

My understanding was that refugees had to move to the neighbouring country to be considered refugees but these people are traveling much further than that to gain entry to germany france and the uk. In my opinion they shouldn't be let into any of these country's because the only reason they are moving their is to milk those country's for everything they can. Its basically on turkeys shoulder to accomodate most of these people not europe, especially since noe of the countrys they come from are even in europe but once they get in they seem to get free reign over wherever they want to go.

Milk those countries?
Hmm... I wouldn't like to insult you, but as far as I know they don't milk anything as they don't receive anything from governments as they don't have the citizenship.
Sure they receive money food and shelter from associations, but that's why associations are created.
But they don't "live as a burden for the country" as they have 0 right to any state help.

And I find it very funny to see someone crying for dogs in south Korea but saying we shouldn't let humans come here... how hypocritical again.

And i find it funny that you care so much about these refugees when you dont seem to have much of a regard for life in general. You where living and breathing violence earlier and now your sticking up for the poor refugees? And im the hypocrite?

Besides, id much rather let the dogs in anyway, at least i can be sure that they wont blow us up, shoot us or make any other kind of terrorist acts. Letting in refugees we might as well just open the gates and let isis stroll on in. We could have them all sitting on benefits so they can concentrate on their terror plans in peace.

Im not sure what countries do and dopnt give aid but some do if not all, https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/sep/06/uk-cost-refugees-government-pledge

I didn't breath violence, I was stating logical arguments saying it was laughable to care so much about dogs in south Korea but not caring about what's going on in your home.

And I have much more care for fellow humans than for dogs yeah sorry.
Linking terrorism and refugees is dumber as hell. Terrorists will pass even if you close your gates, and they'll pass easily! You can't close the whole EU borders good enough so terrorists don't go through. Difference is that ONLY terrorists will pass, not the normal refugees or economic migrants.

markj113

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@ m0gliE,

So the rape epidemic linked to muslim immigrants is purely down to the fact that need more cash in the bank lol.

I would say its more of a cultural problem where women are viewed as second class citizens in their home country and they bring the problem with them.

There is always a % of an indiginous population of any country that are poor yet they dont run around in large gangs mass raping multiple women like packs of animals.

I wonder if you would remain as enlightened if your mother, wife or daughter were on the receiving end of some cultural enrichment.

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Quote from: mOgliE on July 31, 2016, 07:26:38 AM

-Housing problem: You kidding me? I won't talk about whole Europe but I know for a fact that around 30% of Paris isn't rented by anyone simply own by banks and that's all.

Paris is in a unique situation. It's not humane to welcome everybody but have no place for them to live. Living in tents in Calais, France is not a living.

Germany: short on space, is housing refugees in hotels
Spain: National Housing Crisis
Italy: Why Italy's housing crisis matters: Seven years after the financial crisis, Italy's property market has still not recovered.

The refugees should be able to live in Turkey, Iran. It's close to their country and similar.

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Quote from: markj113 on July 31, 2016, 05:06:37 AM

And what about the massive increase in rapes, complete lack of integration and the host country facing demands by the immigrants to change to suit them e.g. sharia courts, increased pressure on housing, pressure on infra structure such as schools and medical care (NHS)

VEry easy but thanks for asking ^^
-Crimes/rapes: Criminality is and has always been linked to financial and economical status. You don't rape/steal/beat people when you don't have money problem, that's as simple as that (unless you have mental health issue of course). You won't the end of crimes? Stop unemployment, legalize drugs and prostitution. You won't see kids shooting themselves anymore.

-Integration problems: You wanna know why there are education problems? Simple, because we put them all in the same places and put them all together in the same schools. You gotta mix them with the rest of the society otherwise OF COURSE they won't integrate themselves!

-Housing problem: You kidding me? I won't talk about whole Europe but I know for a fact that around 30% of Paris isn't rented by anyone simply own by banks and that's all.

-Medical problem: Again, in France NHS costs around 2billions a year. Private sector makes 6.5 billions of profit. Need another explanation?

helloeverybody

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Quote from: mOgliE on July 31, 2016, 04:33:41 AM

Quote from: helloeverybody on July 31, 2016, 04:09:31 AM

Quote from: Lethn on July 30, 2016, 10:54:44 PM

They're not fucking refugees either, even the EU is openly admitting that they don't qualify for refugee status and many of them are actually economic migrants, I'm fucking sick of this. I hope that Theresa May doesn't screw us over on the EU issue like so many are wanting because I am convinced people like Merkel will fuck us over big time.

Call me paranoid, but I think one of the reasons the EU was so desperate for the UK to keep us in was not only so we would have to pay to keep all these migrants but it would also mean she could just dump the problem on us like with France. So rather than having to actually deal with the problem or deport them she could simply let them cross the borders freely and end up looking like a hero while the migrants from the middle east go and trash another country.

My understanding was that refugees had to move to the neighbouring country to be considered refugees but these people are traveling much further than that to gain entry to germany france and the uk. In my opinion they shouldn't be let into any of these country's because the only reason they are moving their is to milk those country's for everything they can. Its basically on turkeys shoulder to accomodate most of these people not europe, especially since noe of the countrys they come from are even in europe but once they get in they seem to get free reign over wherever they want to go.

Milk those countries?
Hmm... I wouldn't like to insult you, but as far as I know they don't milk anything as they don't receive anything from governments as they don't have the citizenship.
Sure they receive money food and shelter from associations, but that's why associations are created.
But they don't "live as a burden for the country" as they have 0 right to any state help.

And I find it very funny to see someone crying for dogs in south Korea but saying we shouldn't let humans come here... how hypocritical again.

And i find it funny that you care so much about these refugees when you dont seem to have much of a regard for life in general. You where living and breathing violence earlier and now your sticking up for the poor refugees? And im the hypocrite?

Besides, id much rather let the dogs in anyway, at least i can be sure that they wont blow us up, shoot us or make any other kind of terrorist acts. Letting in refugees we might as well just open the gates and let isis stroll on in. We could have them all sitting on benefits so they can concentrate on their terror plans in peace.

Im not sure what countries do and dopnt give aid but some do if not all, https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/sep/06/uk-cost-refugees-government-pledge

markj113

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And what about the massive increase in rapes, complete lack of integration and the host country facing demands by the immigrants to change to suit them e.g. sharia courts, increased pressure on housing, pressure on infra structure such as schools and medical care (NHS)

Topic: Germany's Chancellor Merkel "firmly" rejects calls to change refugee policy desp - page 2. (Read 2198 times)