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Topic: GHash.IO Statement Regarding 51% Threat (Read 3132 times)

sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 257
August 31, 2014, 10:44:57 AM
#31
thanks for info sir Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
sucker got hacked and screwed --Toad
August 31, 2014, 09:27:57 AM
#30
I love how ghash.io has been this transparent in their public declaration.

DrG
legendary
Activity: 2086
Merit: 1035
August 30, 2014, 03:26:04 AM
#29
The original paper proposes that if the majority of the nodes are honest nodes then the network will be safe from manipulation.  If the majority of the nodes are dishonest nodes, an attack is possible.

Don't know about the 39.99% perhaps gentlemen's agreement between Pool operators.

To be fair, I see this as a failing of the other pool operators versus a GHash issue.  Earn your piece of the pie, do marketing, drop your fees, increase rewards, have a lottery, pay 10 BTC to the finder of the block like Nakamoto suggested: "Either way, the user who submits the hit that solves the block should get an extra amount off the top, like 10 BTC"....this is meant to be a free market is it not?

IF you "vote with your CPU", clearly other Pool operators need to improve their campaigns to get more "CPU votes."

The problem in this case was clealy demonstrated to be mindless sheep mentality.  The same way intelligent people complain about the government inefficiencies but the sheep ruin everything.  Other pools have demonstrated to be better performing and yet people flock to something with 0% Fee and 2 extra coins because they think they make more all while bending over and dropping 2-4% orphan rate  Roll Eyes
member
Activity: 69
Merit: 10
August 30, 2014, 12:57:46 AM
#28
The original paper proposes that if the majority of the nodes are honest nodes then the network will be safe from manipulation.  If the majority of the nodes are dishonest nodes, an attack is possible.

Don't know about the 39.99% perhaps gentlemen's agreement between Pool operators.

To be fair, I see this as a failing of the other pool operators versus a GHash issue.  Earn your piece of the pie, do marketing, drop your fees, increase rewards, have a lottery, pay 10 BTC to the finder of the block like Nakamoto suggested: "Either way, the user who submits the hit that solves the block should get an extra amount off the top, like 10 BTC"....this is meant to be a free market is it not?

IF you "vote with your CPU", clearly other Pool operators need to improve their campaigns to get more "CPU votes."
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
August 29, 2014, 11:52:31 PM
#27
They won't be so popular for much longer if they do - there are reasons why other front-running pools have fallen back behind.

Well at least the 51% talk will ease..


I'm a bit new to the mining scene. Can anyone explain what 51% means and why they are avoiding 39.99%?
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
August 22, 2014, 09:58:17 AM
#26
I feel like discus fish is the bigger threat at this point....
legendary
Activity: 1173
Merit: 1000
August 01, 2014, 06:22:23 AM
#25
They won't be so popular for much longer if they do - there are reasons why other front-running pools have fallen back behind.

Well at least the 51% talk will ease..
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
August 01, 2014, 04:26:32 AM
#24
It was on like the 2nd page on discussion so for that, fuck you.
[/quote

July 18, 2014, 09:30:13 PM


No, Fuck you
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
August 01, 2014, 04:21:29 AM
#23
It was on like the 2nd page on discussion so for that, fuck you.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
August 01, 2014, 04:10:57 AM
#22
Why would people even mine on GHash when they can mine with other decent sized pools and get daily payouts still.. some people confuse me

And why are you trying to get more posts for your sig campaign on an old thread? Some retards confuse me
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
August 01, 2014, 04:10:20 AM
#21
Why would people even mine on GHash when they can mine with other decent sized pools and get daily payouts still.. some people confuse me
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1024
Mine at Jonny's Pool
Quoting myself for relevant content here:

The way they make announcements to a wide audience without ever communicating directly with any of the users here on the forums reminds me of the smug behaviour of deepbit during its dying/quietly fading days but in an even worse manner showing what looks like a complete lack of respect to miners. Compare their communication to Eleuthria's of BTCGuild who has continually responded to almost every single comment no matter how mundane.

Users have more power than they think and the bitcoin mining community at large has held many groups to task over the last few years and it remains the responsibility of users to continue protecting other users and bitcoin. The reason ghash did not reach 51% was because of the many warnings posted here and elsewhere. While you're all complaining that a simple announcement by ghash to tell miners to direct their hashes elsewhere is nowhere near enough of a total solution to the possible destabilisation of the network by them receiving a majority of the hashrate, bear in mind the only reason they have made this announcement is because of continued pressure by the community and it should be seen as a major milestone, but I agree we must not become complacent by this one step alone.
I absolutely agree that we should not become complacent.  As you point out, the community at large has some power, and also has responsibility.  Yes, we as a community of miners are actively keeping an eye on things, pointing out areas that require attention, etc.  The pool operators are also responsible for taking proper action.  The warning message is certainly a great start.  It is only that, though: a start.  Further action needs to be taken by the pool.  If GHash.io truly means what they say, then such action would be taken by them.

Posting warnings here is useless. They should raise fees and start disconnecting slower miners.
How is disconnecting slower miners the solution?  What is considered "slow"?  Wouldn't that just encourage faster miners to then connect since they don't have to be concerned?  I'm also not too sure about the raising fees proposition.  What does that do except get GHash.io richer?  They buy more hardware, have more "cloud" mining on cex.io.

I believe that raising fees did in fact work on another pool back before GHash was so popular.  I think it was about 1.5 years ago.  At some point when fees are rising, it just doesn't make sense for miners to be there, and GHash has the incentive to raise fees because it will make them more money. 
BTCGuild did it.  Do we really want GHash.io to have even more funds to purchase more hardware, to sell more cloud mining, to make even more?  Vicious circle there.  Of course, of all the proposals, they are most likely to adopt the increased fees since it nets them more BTC Wink
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Quoting myself for relevant content here:

The way they make announcements to a wide audience without ever communicating directly with any of the users here on the forums reminds me of the smug behaviour of deepbit during its dying/quietly fading days but in an even worse manner showing what looks like a complete lack of respect to miners. Compare their communication to Eleuthria's of BTCGuild who has continually responded to almost every single comment no matter how mundane.

Users have more power than they think and the bitcoin mining community at large has held many groups to task over the last few years and it remains the responsibility of users to continue protecting other users and bitcoin. The reason ghash did not reach 51% was because of the many warnings posted here and elsewhere. While you're all complaining that a simple announcement by ghash to tell miners to direct their hashes elsewhere is nowhere near enough of a total solution to the possible destabilisation of the network by them receiving a majority of the hashrate, bear in mind the only reason they have made this announcement is because of continued pressure by the community and it should be seen as a major milestone, but I agree we must not become complacent by this one step alone.
I absolutely agree that we should not become complacent.  As you point out, the community at large has some power, and also has responsibility.  Yes, we as a community of miners are actively keeping an eye on things, pointing out areas that require attention, etc.  The pool operators are also responsible for taking proper action.  The warning message is certainly a great start.  It is only that, though: a start.  Further action needs to be taken by the pool.  If GHash.io truly means what they say, then such action would be taken by them.

Posting warnings here is useless. They should raise fees and start disconnecting slower miners.
How is disconnecting slower miners the solution?  What is considered "slow"?  Wouldn't that just encourage faster miners to then connect since they don't have to be concerned?  I'm also not too sure about the raising fees proposition.  What does that do except get GHash.io richer?  They buy more hardware, have more "cloud" mining on cex.io.

I believe that raising fees did in fact work on another pool back before GHash was so popular.  I think it was about 1.5 years ago.  At some point when fees are rising, it just doesn't make sense for miners to be there, and GHash has the incentive to raise fees because it will make them more money. 
legendary
Activity: 1258
Merit: 1027
  ***Dear miners, we are approaching 39.99% of the Bitcoin hashrate. Please, move your mining hardware to other pools. Thank you for understanding!***

  ***Dear ghash miners, they are approaching 39.99% of the Bitcoin hashrate AGAIN . Please permanently move your mining hardware to other pools. Thank you for understanding!***
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1024
Mine at Jonny's Pool
Quoting myself for relevant content here:

The way they make announcements to a wide audience without ever communicating directly with any of the users here on the forums reminds me of the smug behaviour of deepbit during its dying/quietly fading days but in an even worse manner showing what looks like a complete lack of respect to miners. Compare their communication to Eleuthria's of BTCGuild who has continually responded to almost every single comment no matter how mundane.

Users have more power than they think and the bitcoin mining community at large has held many groups to task over the last few years and it remains the responsibility of users to continue protecting other users and bitcoin. The reason ghash did not reach 51% was because of the many warnings posted here and elsewhere. While you're all complaining that a simple announcement by ghash to tell miners to direct their hashes elsewhere is nowhere near enough of a total solution to the possible destabilisation of the network by them receiving a majority of the hashrate, bear in mind the only reason they have made this announcement is because of continued pressure by the community and it should be seen as a major milestone, but I agree we must not become complacent by this one step alone.
I absolutely agree that we should not become complacent.  As you point out, the community at large has some power, and also has responsibility.  Yes, we as a community of miners are actively keeping an eye on things, pointing out areas that require attention, etc.  The pool operators are also responsible for taking proper action.  The warning message is certainly a great start.  It is only that, though: a start.  Further action needs to be taken by the pool.  If GHash.io truly means what they say, then such action would be taken by them.

Posting warnings here is useless. They should raise fees and start disconnecting slower miners.
How is disconnecting slower miners the solution?  What is considered "slow"?  Wouldn't that just encourage faster miners to then connect since they don't have to be concerned?  I'm also not too sure about the raising fees proposition.  What does that do except get GHash.io richer?  They buy more hardware, have more "cloud" mining on cex.io.
full member
Activity: 226
Merit: 100
I have my doubts…. The day before they were about to crack the 51% total, they were sending out spam email asking people to jump in and help them… That shows me they had clear intent… No need to go any further then that .
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
Posting warnings here is useless. They should raise fees and start disconnecting slower miners.
-ck
legendary
Activity: 4088
Merit: 1631
Ruu \o/
Quoting myself for relevant content here:

The way they make announcements to a wide audience without ever communicating directly with any of the users here on the forums reminds me of the smug behaviour of deepbit during its dying/quietly fading days but in an even worse manner showing what looks like a complete lack of respect to miners. Compare their communication to Eleuthria's of BTCGuild who has continually responded to almost every single comment no matter how mundane.

Users have more power than they think and the bitcoin mining community at large has held many groups to task over the last few years and it remains the responsibility of users to continue protecting other users and bitcoin. The reason ghash did not reach 51% was because of the many warnings posted here and elsewhere. While you're all complaining that a simple announcement by ghash to tell miners to direct their hashes elsewhere is nowhere near enough of a total solution to the possible destabilisation of the network by them receiving a majority of the hashrate, bear in mind the only reason they have made this announcement is because of continued pressure by the community and it should be seen as a major milestone, but I agree we must not become complacent by this one step alone.
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1024
Mine at Jonny's Pool
The actual solution would be to deny new connections once it has reached the limit it wants to. That way, there is no new hashpower. Their current policy is to send out messages and warnings, but that is useless.
Another option is to disconnect all miners, and only the ones that reconnect quickest will be able to stay. They can also increase fees to reduce hashrate.

This is probably the best solution.  We ask end users to control themselves and this of keeping the network distributed.  If they fail to do so then it is up to the pool op to see a workaround (assuming ghash.io truly doesn't want to see 51%).  Don't allow any new connections.  Other coins already do this when they get above 35% on some pools, this should have been implemented some time ago.
Most, if not all, of us are saying exactly the same thing... that the POOL needs to take action.  Simply sending out tweets and posting in forums asking miners to pretty please with sugar on top stop mining on the pool is only the first step, and it should be done when the pool hits 35%.  When the pool hits 39.99% simply deny connections.  51% problem is solved.
DrG
legendary
Activity: 2086
Merit: 1035
The actual solution would be to deny new connections once it has reached the limit it wants to. That way, there is no new hashpower. Their current policy is to send out messages and warnings, but that is useless.
Another option is to disconnect all miners, and only the ones that reconnect quickest will be able to stay. They can also increase fees to reduce hashrate.

This is probably the best solution.  We ask end users to control themselves and this of keeping the network distributed.  If they fail to do so then it is up to the pool op to see a workaround (assuming ghash.io truly doesn't want to see 51%).  Don't allow any new connections.  Other coins already do this when they get above 35% on some pools, this should have been implemented some time ago.
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