Topic: Gifting satoshis to future generations (Read 1161 times)

I don't really disagree with anything that you are saying Samlucky O   - except maybe I am trying to suggest that it becomes very difficult to presume the level of motivation and/or ability to learn that people have - and from my perspective, you seem to want to presume that the fact that there is money that can be gotten, then they are going to pay more attention and even realize the importance of learning - which may or may not end up being true.

We see a lot of examples in the world in which people appreciate money that they get for "free" much less than they appreciate money that they had to engage in their own proof of work to acquire and to build and to maintain.

And people also have different kinds of personalities, and yeah, maybe with the passage of time and through repetition, we can start to recognize the extent to which someone is becoming more motivated or less motivated, but I still doubt that we can count on any of those kinds of things progressing in the direction that we would like in terms of the abilities of people to retain information in their memories or even what incentivizes them, even though a lot of people are incentivized by money, but not everyone even though some people will still be incentivized by some of the freedoms that money could provide them in terms of getting other things that they like.. including maybe the ability to not have to work (meaning that they can choose their activities rather than being forced) or the ability to feed themselves with higher quality food, which sometimes people might not realize sacrifices that they might be making in terms of their own dietary choices based on marginal price differences.

Yes it's true. Interacting Bitcoin information to a 10year old can be sometimes uncomfortable. considering the fact that the mental ability can not comprehend Bitcoin. But one thing Is for sure. the journey of Bitcoin does not start a day. People usually become interested in learning, expecially when it's a money related discussion.

If you discuss Bitcoin information to your 10year child and he can't comprehend, you tell him about the inportant of Bitcoin the value and what the future will be and how much you have accumulated, he will be triggered to learn faster. It will definitely take alot of time for them to fully understand, but never the less as you grow in Bitcoin ability also try to grow with your children. Don't always see them as children.

Just like the topic, gifting Satoshi to the future generations to me I sugest that educating your child/children on Bitcoin at early stages is the best option. So that when they are more advanced you will not be afraid of losing your Bitcoin to an outdated Bitcoin storage facility. Or being afraid of the type of USB or hard disk to store. Because when dey are fully aware of Bitcoin even when you are no more on planet Earth and a new update on Bitcoin is available dey will definitely figure out a way to extract Bitcoin or update it.

Sure, there likely needs to be some motivation for learning and/or taking some steps to set up a wallet or to learn about how to use a bitcoin wallet if there happens to be "free bitcoin" inside, and maybe the recipient of the gift is not going to pay attention until the amount gets to be over a certain amount or they perceive some kind of value that they can get from the gift (the bitcoin) that they perceive to outweigh the costs upon them to have to learn or to have to listen to a parent who is "lecturing at" them.

Maybe the giver teaches the bitcoin recipient that the recipient has a duty to pass on and to hold the family legacy, and maybe that could be an incentive for some recipients to want to learn and to take on such responsibility.  Sometimes it is not clear how to inspire someone who might otherwise not be inspired or feel some kind of a need to learn.

I think some of this depends on how willing and self development they are ought to be because you could try all means to pass information and knowledge to people but the abilities and desires for such people or groups of person's to dilute those Information given to results as a point of interest ( there are some fellow who loves the words "bitcoin" but had barely give it a time).

You and I know today that for someone to be fully bathed in bitcoin and all tells that relates with formation and configuration and reserved on self development that leads to self study and reliance. Though it's pretty much cool learning and gaining the knowledge from those whom we may think that are better than them but willingness to put more efforts to practice depends on personal interest.

 I don't think holding hands could solved the problems of those who are wishing for a self development as I think we are in a computerised world were information could likely be source and diluted without having to be much more depending on personal tells from those whom we may introduce to the space.
The world is fast rising place which everyone I mean, anyone are liable for whatever lose the incurred while accepting to ventured into bitcoin investment. The truth is before investment we should first accept the risk aspect before the benefits aspect of it.

There is some truth in what you are saying Blitzboy, and frequently I find myself telling people about bitcoin while at the same time suggesting that they don't come crying to me if they lose money on it or they fuck something up, and frequently people see my approach as NOT sufficiently advocating for what I am saying that they do because I am not standing behind it sufficiently enough... and yeah there is ONLY so much that any of us can do (including letting people know that they are responsible for their own decisions, including not deciding and not acting), and maybe sometimes we do end up getting more raveled into helping someone (and holding their hands) in way too many ways, and it can be a difficult balance because some people actually need some hand-holding in order to really get started enough and to a far enough place that they can be thereafter be let out on their own.

Also, how well might we know the person, and are they really listening?  If they are asking their own questions, then likely they are listening, and sure some people might not ask very many questions and they still might be absorbing some of the information, so it might take several follow-ups to confirm that they sufficiently understand the information that has been shared with them.

And even in the case of something like inheritance or passing down gifts, there may well be some value in following up 1, 2, 3, 5 years or more down the road to figure out where the other person may be and if they have sufficiently retained the information that might have been shared at a point or several points earlier.  

For sure interacting is likely way easier, but interacting can vary, so if you might tell your 10 year old about some bitcoin related information, and then you might not yet be at a point where you are comfortable with the 10 year old interacting with bitcoin, even though it could be possible to go down that road.. or if you are interacting with older relatives, some of them may or may not be willing to share some of their own finances, and they might have their own ideas that could get in the way regarding how to present matters or even trying to suggest that they "need to" learn something (technology) that might relate to something in which they already have  a lot of opinions and experiences (maybe not good opinions/experiences, but still).

if we're being honest, you're not to blame for people's inability to do their own research. If you introduce them to Bitcoin, and they make rash decisions without understanding the intricacies, thats on them. Its like giving someone a car; if they choose to drive recklessly without understanding the rules, who's at fault?

Introducing someone to a new concept doesnt make you a villain; it makes you a visionary. And for those who bash you for their losses, remind them that the stock market isnt a guaranteed win either. People lose money there every day. Its high time they take accountability for their decisions and stop scapegoating others. You're on the right path by minding your business. Let the naysayers wallow in their self-pity. The world needs more educators and less blame gamers.

I've had the same reservations too. Part of me believes that bitcoin would endure and would remain relevant for years to come, but on the other hand I can't help but be pessimistic/realistic about the tenure of things and think that something else will surely take its place in the future, if not a whole paradigm shift of cryptocurrency and decentralized finance. Tools utilization is another thing as well, but with the trend that things are going to I think we'd still be able to use USB sticks with future computers, just bear in mind the fact that even though nobody uses those goddamned mouse and keyboard adapters anymore, computer companies still leave them up for some reason. I believe that if things go well and we don't kill ourselves with war, at least enough for us to see how things will go through in the future, we'd still be able to use regular old USB sticks, so trezor wallets are still relevant and all that.

Not really is the word as I could see that he posted once this year as far back as February but has been gone since then, perhaps follows tbe forum passively as a guest.

Yet again, it was a carefully thought through plan that had a the right considerations and the course of execution is maintained in the hands of the parent or guardian of the child. Let's hope they don't try to be funny with it by accessing it themselves before the expected 18year time frame on any course.

It's no new news that the course to bitcoin and its keywords seed phrase safety have been met with several views on what could be considered best and somehow, we could only hope but, the fast pace at which technology continues to advance from micro to nano and now simbless devices are been produced, 18years seems like a far distant time for the establishment of gaps between today existing  innovations but then, it wouldn't much on the importation of wallets so, I still see the move to be potent.

This is what makes me really stop on telling people around me about Bitcoin on which it would really be turning out that im a bad guy on introducing things that really looks like an alien to them on which it would really be

just that ending up that you are really that tending to hook them on something dangerous which it do really sucks on having that kind of feeling on which our intents arent really supposed to be that way but it turns out that we are really that tending them to put people in harm which is really that totally the opposite.This is why i have decided that its better to be silent and would really be minding my own business and would really be continuing on what im doing in terms of accumulation. Im just letting that recognition and adoption to have its move since its something that cant be stopped. The thing that i dont really like is that im getting blamed
on something which i havent done and having those kind of regrets and bashes that i shouldnt have introduced something to them which it did really result in losing money.
Just let those youngster do able to learn up things neither by other sources or methods or paths.It would depend on a certain person if they would tend to fasten it up at least even on the smallest scale or type of introduction.

You seem to be one step of where I was when I created my scheme and one step ahead of where I plan to go.  I had a way of identifying the words, but there were likely hundreds of words in the story that were also potential BIP39 words because I did not engage in any kind of elimination - since I considered my other ways of identifying the words to be sufficiently good (even though prone to errors including memory errors like we have both acknowledged).


Much of that time, especially if I was on a longer trip, I would already be traveling with one or two hardware wallets, and I think that my system was not so great, but those wallets tended to have other seeds on them.  .. so the balances would not be more than a few thousand dollars if I was passing over borders.. but if you remember our price rises in late 2020 to early 2021 and then again in late 2021.. the 2020 value had kind of far exceeded what I had considered to be prudent limits since we largely went from around $8k to $64k in that first run.. .. so even something like $2k would have turned into close to $16k.. so some actions might have had been prudent, if there might have been times in there might have been a crossing of a border or something like that.

By the way, I have found the use of the extra passwords (25th word) and abilities to have multiple other wallet portals through the use of such 25 words to be a very interesting and helpful feature, and sure I am not as familiar with the use of the brick pin or some other ways in which the technology and the various practices/use cases are continuing to develop.  Sometimes I like to see something in play for a while before I start to try to use it myself, and the 25th word kind of scared me until I started using it.. the same was true in 2017 when I moved a large quantity of my BTC off of various exchanges in order to minimize my exposure in that regard... once you put some of the self-custodial matters or even some of the tricks into practice, they become more familiar and even start to seem like they can be adopted in ways to bring higher levels of confidence.. but surely not without some of the own risks of forgetting your 25th word for example (or even making it too easy, as another example).

Thanks for being willing to introduce bitcoin to a certain number of people before you leave Mother Earth, I have almost gave up on introducing Bitcoin to people, illiteracy in my country have blindfolded many people around me, but a simple plumber who restores my water pipe issue brings back my lost zeal, he accepted bitcoin as payment and that got me good.

It's a shame that the majority of family members want to compete, they hope I fail and they want to be the last man standing, while I don't want to compete with any of them I just decided to leave them be, I mean, Bitcoin isn't something we can force on certain people, it's not because they won't understand, but their compete habit won't let them learn, after all what do I know?

The Lord is your strength @qiwoman2, my advice is we can't force Bitcoin on them, but we can always do our best and leave the rest, Bitcoin will survive, and many unborn babies will benefit, it will be a good view watching from the other side too but I pray we live longer to at least experience how things will unfold for Bitcoin.

Cheers.

If bitcoin is still relevant and good in 20-30 years then this is a good idea. Not only will it be a very useful gift for kids in the future so they can have a boost for their financial needs, but it will also be a good introduction to the world of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency as they have something to start with. However, using flash drives, USB, and other hardware can be pretty difficult for the future generation to use as I am sure other hardware storage will be developed and the hardware that we use now will be phased out or will be replaced, the ports will be replaced as well, making it difficult for them to use and access the satoshis we gifted them with. Hence, I think using a paper wallet will be better, as long as it is stored properly and it can be guaranteed that only the kid will be able to access it once they are of the right age.

For anyone who wants to know more about paper wallets or for those who are not familiar with them, here is a post by Jake Frenkenfield about paper wallets and everything there is to know about them: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/paper-wallet.asp

It's a common problem with all self created schemes or ideas like this one. It seems obvious to you at the time, but skip forward a few weeks or months without thinking about it and you simply forget the intricacies of what you've done and make it very difficult to recover. To add to what I said on that old post you quoted - not only do you have to shoehorn your 24 words in to an awkward sounding story, but you'll also need to make sure none of the other 2048 commonly used words from the BIP39 word list are in your story. No point having a story which contains 100 words from the wordlist and being unable to remember which are the important 24 words.

If you need to carry a wallet with you, then a hardware wallet is the best solution for this. If you need to hide the fact you are carrying a wallet with you, then I would likely encrypt it inside a hidden volume which could be decrypted if forced to reveal some dummy sensitive data.

And you do not take into account the fact that a sufficiently large number of coins are lost without the possibility of returning them. Do you think this process can be stopped? No, it's not. Therefore, this process continues and will be in the future.
It’s even hard to imagine, but it’s impossible to exclude everything at the moment that a large investment company, as a result of some force majeure circumstances, will lose access to a huge number of coins. This is in place. This happened more than once.
We see that the coins are being mined, but the value is not growing proportionally. Something is wrong here. And what? Most likely, a speculative component, but this is not the point.
Are there options for transferring crypto after death? The question is, of course, rhetorical. It's just a matter of choosing a method. How to present it to those people who have never dealt with all this and know nothing?

Initially, I was notified of this thread in a DdmrDdmr thread dealing with dying with your coins, and so in my post in a more recently created thread about transferring your wealth in light of attempting to prepare for death, I mentioned that I was planning to go through this thread, and so here i am.  I finally read through the thread, and it ended  up being different from my initial expectations.

Maybe if some of you might have heard Saylor suggest that there might be some consideration in terms of dying with your coins in order to thereby pass all of your coins on to the then existing bitcoin holders by making the bitcoin more scarce, and so I was thinking about this thread in that light - even though I ended up being quite wrong.

I got the sense that there was a bit of promotion of the cryptosteel idea, and some skepticisms regarding having too much reliance on technology and so a lot of that makes sense, as well as having back-ups and maybe no single point of vulnerability - which could even become problematic if you fail/refuse to tell anyone about your coins and so are they going to recognize the value of some piece of paper or even a piece of metal with some words on it, if they have not been given a certain amount of instruction.


I had initially merited adaseb's earlier post in this thread in which he mentioned the creation of some kind of song or poem or story, and even though I kind of thought of it as a bit dumb and complicated and vulnerable for some the reasons that o_e_l_e_o pointed out, o_e_l_e_o's post also reminded me of one of my cumbersome ways that I had travelled with a wallet at various times between 2018 and 2022, and even though I had some back ups in other places, I wanted to have access to that wallet on my various electronic devices including my couple of phones and a couple of computers that I had been traveling with in case any of them got taken I had that story that I had created on each of the electronic devices.. .. and I did not ever need to use it in any kind of an emergency situation, but there were several times that I had tried to go through and to figure out the key (and it was a 24 word key) from the story and the formula that I had created in order to identify the words, and I frequently got confused.   

But surely it was not easy to put together a story from those 24 words without it coming off as kind of weird and awkward and to still fit into a kind of way that I could figure out which were the words and what were their order.  It was some point in 2022 that I had come to a conclusion that the wallet was overly vulnerable, so I had zeroed out the balance of whatever funds were remaining in it.. but I did not quite come to the conclusion that the way that I had written the story was overly vulnerable. even though it was a bit of an awkward kind of a story and perhaps if the awkwardness of the story is identified, and then there might be a bit of an expectation that the 3000 words or whatever it was would have had been part of a 24 word seed, then maybe there could have had been some kind of algorithmic attempt to figure out the words - but at the same time, i sort of split them up into a few parts so all of it was not within the same story... so yeah, maybe I was more vulnerable than I thought, but it was likely one of those kinds of ways of storing private back up keys that was so complicated that if it was the ONLY way that I had to get at my wallet, then maybe I would have had ended up losing the wallet... For me it was ONLY a kind of back up way of getting  at those words while I was traveling at various points in time and even if I no longer had my hardware wallet, I could go buy one and then plug the 24 words into it at some remote location.. if needed. and to have enough funds to to take care of quite a few possible emergency situations that could come about and have some ability to be accomplished through bitcoin.


I agree with your overall sentiment coolcoinz, but your 100% certainty of a 10x price increase in 10 years is quite striking, even if you might end up being correct.

I do like the idea that you paint though - because several of the posters in this thread stated that we don't really know what bitcoin is going to do so anything can happen, blah blah blah.. bitcoin might go up and it might go down and its a coin toss.. and surely that is bullshit on the other side that could cause someone to either not invest into bitcoin or to engage in various kinds of trading or selling along the way or even taking unnecessary risks because "no one knows if bitcoin is going to be valuable" in 18-20 years.

I think that the point that you clearly are making, whether we talk about buying 0.1 BTC of a $7k bitcoin (which would be $700) in early 2020 versus buying 0.05 BTC right now of a $28k bitcoin, which would be $1,400, we still likely have good chances of being way up on our bitcoin 10 years, 20 years and/or 30 years down the road as compared with other places that we might have invested that same amount of value and just sat upon it.  We don't even necessarily need to get 10x in the next 10 years or even 5x in the next 10 years and 2.5x in the following 10 years and 1.25 x in the following 10 years, even though maybe i am understanding the asymmetric nature of the bet and the seeming decent likelihood that bitcoin is at least likely to keep up with inflation and surpass it in value, but like you mentioned, even if you end up being wrong, the most you are out is $700 in your case and $1,400 in my revised case of purchasing ONLY 0.05 BTC.

So a similar thing ends up being true in regards to if we might be passing down value, yet we cannot be really sure if the value is going to be up or down, but we still might presume that whatever value that we choose to put into bitcoin today that we have decently good chances that it will remain a good asymmetric bet, and it may well not even be true that we are locked into having to keep the value in bitcoin for 18-20 years or that we have locked ourselves out of the value (like a timelock) because there is nothing in the OP that presents the topic in that way, and probably any kind of safe, prudent, practicable and reasonable approach would include some kind of ongoing checking on the functionality of the keys from time to time. .. and surely people likely do get lazy in some of these kinds of matters and maybe wait too long before doing some kind of a prudent check of the ongoing functioning of the keys or maybe if these ways of checking would vary depending on what might have had been our storage mechanism...and/or the back ups.

He answered in the thread:


As far as I know Federico is not really active here, but you can try to summon him. Maybe he will be notified somehow.
Even more if the question is relevant!

If you store the private in the USB, make sure you do things.

1) Store your private keys in two different USB and store them at a different place. This is for the purpose that if one USB got corrupted, you would have a backup.

2)Do not store any other data on that usb and do not use it for your daily tasks

When you gift some satoshi to the younger generation, give them the USB and keep them saved in a locker where they can be accessed by everyone.

May I know the username?

I think this is a better idea then wasting it on collage 
People often forget about their kids future because they simply trying to survive but if you don't save for your kids very early on then you may never. The fact you can create a crypto bond is very cool and ensures a trustless way to keep the bond intact until the date it releases. It would just suck if you cannot get the coins out and need to since the price is good. Im is unsure what you would do in that situtation.