Gigamining / Teramining - page 108. | Bitcointalksearch.org

redbeans2012

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Quote from: jamesg on June 17, 2012, 09:32:18 AM

To all gigaminers:

There has been a lot of news / discussion in recent days regarding new equipment coming out from Butterfly Labs. I have confirmed with BFL that this information is indeed correct and have submitted an order for 4 more mini rigs. This will bring gigamining up to a total of 8 mini rigs (204Gh/s), 14 BFL Singles (12Gh/s) and around 90 GPUs (36Gh/s).

There have also been multiple requests regarding whether the terms of the gigamining contract will change. This will not be a possibility until BFL is ready to deliver their new ASIC products. I am considering was should be done in this area, but for now the contract will stay at 5Mh/s. BFL has not given any public time frames around delivery of these products so I feel it's best to take a wait and see approach.

In the interim, gigamining is still fulfilling its contract to it's bondholders and this will continue. Mini rigs will be arriving this week (how many times have a heard this already) so expect to see pictures and video of them in the DC if they arrive.

Best,
gigavps

Will more bonds be on the market to cover the cost of the new hardware?

jamesg

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AKA: gigavps

To all gigaminers:

There has been a lot of news / discussion in recent days regarding new equipment coming out from Butterfly Labs. I have confirmed with BFL that this information is indeed correct and have submitted an order for 4 more mini rigs. This will bring gigamining up to a total of 8 mini rigs (204Gh/s), 14 BFL Singles (12Gh/s) and around 90 GPUs (36Gh/s).

There have also been multiple requests regarding whether the terms of the gigamining contract will change. This will not be a possibility until BFL is ready to deliver their new ASIC products. I am considering what should be done in this area, but for now the contract will stay at 5Mh/s. BFL has not given any public time frames around delivery of these products so I feel it's best to take a wait and see approach.

In the interim, gigamining is still fulfilling its contract to it's bondholders and this will continue. Mini rigs will be arriving this week (how many times have I heard this already) so expect to see pictures and video of them in the DC if they arrive.

Best,
gigavps

piotr_n

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Quote from: Equilux on June 17, 2012, 09:14:32 AM

Is Gigamining going to change in any way to reflect this?

I don't think so.

If you go few pages back you can read that I actually proposed such a solution, to increase the hashrate/bond as the difficulty grows and Gigamining is buying more efficient hardware for the same price...
But all I got in reply, was a bunch of furious "economy experts" jumping onto me and shouting "that these are bonds!" and so they are meant to be worth zero in awhile...

Well, if they are meant to be worth zero, then they obviously will - so just deal with it!

Equilux

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If I understand correctly, the price of all mining bonds should fall slowly when either the price of BTC rises or the difficulty keeps increasing (or both). You can't really influence the price of BTC at will and the price of mining bonds should more or less move in proportion to the amount of movement in the BTC-price. So not much anyone can do there.

But what I guess a bond issuer can influence is the price-retention of the bonds when the diffeculty keeps increasing by revising the terms of the bonds to keep up with changing relation of what 1 or 5 Mh is actually worth when produced by a GPU, BFL-Single , a mini-rig or a ASIC board. Is Gigamining going to change in any way to reflect this?

Garr255

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What's a GPU?

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on June 17, 2012, 02:17:12 AM

Quote from: piotr_n on June 16, 2012, 01:02:45 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on June 16, 2012, 01:01:03 PM

Anyone has any idea why Gigamining and other major mining bonds (Bitbond, Yabmc) just crashed on the GLBSE?
I am now buying, but maybe there is something I do not know?

It's probably because of the announcement from BFL:
http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

They said in the press release that they would be selling "3.5 GH/s, priced at under $149" - so nobody cares anymore about the pity 5 MH / $10 or $6 from GIGAMINING.

Uhm. I keep buying. Sounds bollocks.
BTW: Did anyone notice that FPGAs had zero impact on the network up to now?
Total network hashing rate is still way below the top of 2011.

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-small-lin-ever.png

ASICs (probably) won't be released for a significant amount of time. I'm taking advantage of the low prices and buying a bit.

conspirosphere.tk

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Quote from: piotr_n on June 16, 2012, 01:02:45 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on June 16, 2012, 01:01:03 PM

Anyone has any idea why Gigamining and other major mining bonds (Bitbond, Yabmc) just crashed on the GLBSE?
I am now buying, but maybe there is something I do not know?

It's probably because of the announcement from BFL:
http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

They said in the press release that they would be selling "3.5 GH/s, priced at under $149" - so nobody cares anymore about the pity 5 MH / $10 or $6 from GIGAMINING.

Uhm. I keep buying. Sounds bollocks.
BTW: Did anyone notice that FPGAs had zero impact on the network up to now?
Total network hashing rate is still way below the top of 2011.

sunnankar

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Quote from: redbeans2012 on June 16, 2012, 01:51:44 PM

What about the bfl thread in the mining hardware forum?

Is that the normal bfl pr account?

This is the closest URL that has been provided that is credible and verifiable (standard Wikipedia rules/terms).

Quote

Official BFL post by forum account :

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.966882
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.966924

redbeans2012

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Quote from: sunnankar on June 16, 2012, 01:31:25 PM

Quote from: piotr_n on June 16, 2012, 01:02:45 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on June 16, 2012, 01:01:03 PM

Anyone has any idea why Gigamining and other major mining bonds (Bitbond, Yabmc) just crashed on the GLBSE?
I am now buying, but maybe there is something I do not know?

It's probably because of the announcement from BFL:
http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

Quote from: ciuciu on June 16, 2012, 09:41:45 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

I have been unable to find an official announcement from Butterfly Labs that is both credible and verifiable. Can you please provide a URL hosted on their domain with the appropriate news announcement?

Until then, I would urge caution with regards to this Internet rumor whose veracity is in question with an unverified source as it may be a hoax aimed at causing people to devalue their mining shares/bonds, equipment, etc. in an attempt to get them to sell them at a lower price.

Also, someone should let Butterfly Labs know about the press release since if someone is using their name without their consent then Butterfly Labs may want to proceed with legal action as there are several actionable torts if that is the case.

What about the bfl thread in the mining hardware forum?

Is that the normal bfl pr account?

piotr_n

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Quote from: sunnankar on June 16, 2012, 01:31:25 PM

Quote from: piotr_n on June 16, 2012, 01:02:45 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on June 16, 2012, 01:01:03 PM

Anyone has any idea why Gigamining and other major mining bonds (Bitbond, Yabmc) just crashed on the GLBSE?
I am now buying, but maybe there is something I do not know?

It's probably because of the announcement from BFL:
http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

Quote from: ciuciu on June 16, 2012, 09:41:45 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

I have been unable to find an official announcement from Butterfly Labs that is both credible and verifiable. Can you please provide a URL hosted on their domain with the appropriate news announcement?

No I cannot and I also haven't seen it on their webpage.
But obviously it doesn't seem to really matter - the rumor is all around the internet and the mining bonds are falling down like stones.
Even though there are no dates in this announcement - so even if it's all true, they may as well start selling this new hardware in like 12 months from now...

sunnankar

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Quote from: piotr_n on June 16, 2012, 01:02:45 PM

Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on June 16, 2012, 01:01:03 PM

Anyone has any idea why Gigamining and other major mining bonds (Bitbond, Yabmc) just crashed on the GLBSE?
I am now buying, but maybe there is something I do not know?

It's probably because of the announcement from BFL:
http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

Quote from: ciuciu on June 16, 2012, 09:41:45 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

I have been unable to find an official announcement from Butterfly Labs that is both credible and verifiable. Can you please provide a URL hosted on their domain with the appropriate news announcement?

Until then, I would urge caution with regards to this Internet rumor whose veracity is in question with an unverified source as it may be a hoax aimed at causing people to devalue their mining shares/bonds, equipment, etc. in an attempt to get them to sell them at a lower price.

Also, someone should let Butterfly Labs know about the press release since if someone is using their name without their consent then Butterfly Labs may want to proceed with legal action as there are several actionable torts if that is the case.

piotr_n

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Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on June 16, 2012, 01:01:03 PM

Anyone has any idea why Gigamining and other major mining bonds (Bitbond, Yabmc) just crashed on the GLBSE?
I am now buying, but maybe there is something I do not know?

It's probably because of the announcement from BFL:
http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

They said in the press release that they would be selling "3.5 GH/s, priced at under $149" - so nobody cares anymore about the pity 5 MH / $10 or $6 from GIGAMINING.

bulanula

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Quote from: conspirosphere.tk on June 16, 2012, 01:01:03 PM

Anyone has any idea why Gigamining and other major mining bonds (Bitbond, Yabmc) just crashed on the GLBSE?
I am now buying, but maybe there is something I do not know?

Why wouldn't they crash ?

Asic release makes all fpga/gpu worthless
btc value rise to 6.5 and $10 soonish

conspirosphere.tk

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Bitcoin is antisemitic

Anyone has any idea why Gigamining and other major mining bonds (Bitbond, Yabmc) just crashed on the GLBSE?
I am now buying, but maybe there is something I do not know?

Sukrim

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Great way of making profits:

Quote

The issuer can buy back the bond at any time at a price equal to 1.05 times the highest price the asset was traded on GLBSE over the prior 360 hours.

Sell bonds for 1.50, sell later for ~1, wait until the price tanks + 360 hours, buy back for ~1.05. 45 bitcents per bond profit - mining payouts (which are ~20 bitcents) - 5 bitcents per share sold at 1 (guessing equal amounts of shares sold at 1.50 and 1) = ~20 bitcents per share sold at 1.50 profit. Not pirate rates, but not a bad deal by far either.

dottom

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Quote from: Garr255 on June 15, 2012, 02:07:04 AM

Quote from: dottom on June 15, 2012, 01:37:55 AM

It is STILL overpriced.

I disagree. Keep in mind the cost of hardware, electricity, and most prominently, time.

The increasing hashing capacity is a much more significant factor that hardware cost, electricity and time. A bond issuer can recover the entire cost of the bonds in months and have a much higher capacity hashing capability for same dollar.

A bond holder can lose money as a result of market drop & buy back. Bond holders hold a lot of risk for paying 0.24 to 0.30 BTC per MH/s

See this thread (before the price drop): https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-happens-if-an-owner-sandbagging-his-own-listing-85525

Garr255

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What's a GPU?

Quote from: dottom on June 15, 2012, 01:37:55 AM

It is STILL overpriced.

I disagree. Keep in mind the cost of hardware, electricity, and most prominently, time.

There are theories that the value of bonds will go down with the block reward drop, which I am also starting to disagree with.
I can easily see Bitcoin trading at $10 at the end of the year, which puts the ROI (if measured in dollars) at the same place.
Even if we're still trading at $5 a coin, without a mass introduction of ASICs by the reward drop in December the difficulty will drop significantly and ROI should remain the same.

Either way, the situation is a win-win for both investors and issuers.

dottom

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Quote from: yochdog on June 14, 2012, 08:04:47 PM

Giga has not ripped off anyone......he has stated the terms of the bond, is living up to those terms, and it makes NO DIFFERENCE how many total bonds are outstanding as long as he continues to meet the obligations to each bondholder.

As I have been saying in my short stay on here, the market is overpriced and would eventually correct. It is STILL overpriced.

The nature of bonds is that the bond holder is locked in but the bond issuer benefits from FPGA technology increase.

sunnankar

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Quote from: totaleclipseofthebank on June 14, 2012, 09:42:09 PM

I think people just need to be careful not to flood the market with mining bonds.

Did you really just say that? Huh

I would love people to flood the market with tons of mining bonds at a price less than I think they are worth. Please, a respectable credit-worthy issuer please sell 10Gh/s weekly coupon perpetual mining bonds for 0.01BTC. Then I would buy them all up. Grin

That is what supply (seller) and demand (buyer) is all about. Each values what they give up less than what they get. As I have stated before, those who are short mining bonds, like gigavps, wants their price to go to 0 BTC. The current price is called price discovery.

Daily Anarchist

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Quote from: totaleclipseofthebank on June 14, 2012, 09:42:09 PM

Quote from: yochdog on June 14, 2012, 08:04:47 PM

Quote from: PatrickHarnett on June 14, 2012, 07:52:15 PM

Quote from: totaleclipseofthebank on June 14, 2012, 07:39:04 PM

Well, gigavps dumped 20000 new bonds onto the market at 1btc/share, without offering previous investors any kind of compensation or gain. (making around $50000 in cash)

Whether he realizes this or not, it demonstrates carelessness and lack of concern for current investors in order to please potential future investors, and to get money up front, mere weeks after selling the initial shares.

I could completely understand why someone would never want to do business with him again, and investors are cutting their losses and exiting what now seems like a pretty questionable business.

Thank you for continuing to be ignorant.

Giga did not dump 20,000 onto the market - he made a private placement and employed several people to assist with selling the bonds - that is quite normal, as it takes quite a lot of work. If you want to see what happens when you simply place it on market, read the howls of anguish over in the YABMC thread.

Second, the price was not 1.0 and depending on how/who you purchased from, it was higher than that. I am unsure of the eventual weighted price as I didn't buy any, but it was probably in the 1.2 to 1.3 range.

Giga has a sensible business and plan to make things work on a scale most people couldn't conceive of. If someone wants to panic after thinking they could make a quick buck off these bonds, they were misguided - markets have a way of leveling these things out.

As it is, they are a good buy (@ 1.0 which they are currently) and I look forward to a nice yield. (and I got some yesterday at 1.38).

This.

Giga has not ripped off anyone......he has stated the terms of the bond, is living up to those terms, and it makes NO DIFFERENCE how many total bonds are outstanding as long as he continues to meet the obligations to each bondholder.

That is all.

I agree that giga hasn't broken any of his obligations, just that the supply of available bonds has greatly increased, while demand has remained roughly constant in the near term. For this reason, People who bought in over 1 btc have taken a large loss on their investment.

What if the total supply of bonds went up to 80000 or 160000? The demand can't keep up with the supply, and the price will tank, since there is only so much capital that can flow into the GLBSE at any given time.

Say Chevron issues 100000 bonds and you buy one at a fixed coupon. If they then issue 400000 bonds 2 weeks later with the same coupon, your original bond will probably drop (in this case maybe only slightly) in value due to the increased supply of those bonds.

In any case, I agree that 5MH/s for 1 btc is a good deal--I thought it was a good deal at 1.5btc too. I think people just need to be careful not to flood the market with mining bonds.

This is correct. By increasing the amount of bonds in existence, the price of bonds naturally came down. But that's just like every other consumer product. When Apple puts a new item on the market, they start off only making a "small" number of them and the price is high. But when the early adopters have bought them all up, Apple makes a much larger order and the price comes down. Think about how expensive the first CD players were. They were like $2,000. The early adopters always pay the highest price. Then they get made by the gazillions and everybody else buys them for cheap. Now you can get a CD player for free.

Just because the price of the bonds have come down does not mean that those people who bought them at 1.5 BTC have made poor investments. So long as those bonds yield over 1.5BTC over the course of their lives, it's a winning investment. The people who are buying bonds now at 1 BTC are getting an even better deal.

Garr255

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What's a GPU?

Quote from: jamesg on June 14, 2012, 09:49:36 PM

To all gigaminers:

I have been authorized to share some photos of the soon to arrive mini rigs! BFL has informed me that during their testing of the mini rigs, they needed to use a different PSU to make sure the mini rigs are as stable as the singles. Although BFL has delayed the shipment of the mini rigs, I would rather have them deliver a stable product that just works.

Looks like they'll be shipping by the weekend.

Best,
gigavps

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xPVn8BoseMc/T9qhZ6DDP1I/AAAAAAAAA6M/pbuldT3WWic/s512/photo.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PLfk8ccdvvU/T9qfPSkvc-I/AAAAAAAAA6E/1HFGythuh5U/s800/MR-Production_Line.JPG

Looking good, BFL!

Topic: Gigamining / Teramining - page 108. (Read 216459 times)