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Topic: give me a paystub (Read 1887 times)

legendary
Activity: 1031
Merit: 1000
November 22, 2012, 08:55:28 PM
#21
Your client paying you directly in BTC is way less risky than the employment charade you are asking for.

But my client has to report the expense somehow, no matter whats the method of payment (could be cash) -- he needs a company name.

That's not true.  US companies can pay individuals, requiring at the very most a US taxpayer identification number, sending you IRS form W-9 to collect it.

Any non-US citizen can fill out IRS form W-7 to get a US taxpayer identification number.

And getting a US Tax ID number is not even needed in many cases.

For example, in almost all cases personal services performed by a non-resident alien and outside of the United States are NOT subject to US taxes because personal services are tax based on source of income and in that case are not US sourced (See IRS website).

At most the business would collect a W-8BEN(-E) and have a reasonable belief the independent contractor is performing the services outside the US (perhaps a signed statement to that effect, etc.). This would be extremely defensible record keeping for the business.

People interested in these two areas should consider learning the lay of US law by reading Secrets of Independent Contractors and A Lawyer's Take On Bitcoin and Taxes.

In this case, it really sounds like frisco2's client does not really understand how tax and reporting requirements apply. Involving another corporation merely to invoice is unnecessary and overly complicated for adequate tax planning to engage in legal tax avoidance (in contrast to the illegal tax fraud or tax evasion) and ironically will likely create greater tax liability than would otherwise be due. But not understanding the labyrinthine rules and regulations is pretty common and a reason to read the two short guides on the topic.
vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1141
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
November 21, 2012, 04:11:55 PM
#20
Your client paying you directly in BTC is way less risky than the employment charade you are asking for.

But my client has to report the expense somehow, no matter whats the method of payment (could be cash) -- he needs a company name.

That's not true.  US companies can pay individuals, requiring at the very most a US taxpayer identification number, sending you IRS form W-9 to collect it.

Any non-US citizen can fill out IRS form W-7 to get a US taxpayer identification number.
sr. member
Activity: 312
Merit: 265
November 21, 2012, 01:49:57 PM
#19
Your client paying you directly in BTC is way less risky than the employment charade you are asking for.

But my client has to report the expense somehow, no matter whats the method of payment (could be cash) -- he needs a company name.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1002
November 21, 2012, 11:08:28 AM
#18
I will spell it out for you -- it is a form of legal tax avoidance, which I support and am very interested in. I don't mind becoming a legal employee of that company, if I can arrange that I will pay less taxes.
There's no such thing as legal tax avoidance - have you seen the tax code lately? It's about 2 feet thick and filled with contradictions.

If they want to put you in jail, they will. End of story.

vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1141
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
November 21, 2012, 10:22:01 AM
#17
I will spell it out for you -- it is a form of legal tax avoidance, which I support and am very interested in. I don't mind becoming a legal employee of that company, if I can arrange that I will pay less taxes.

I am skeptical of this claim as well. Being an employee, they will deduct taxes, and will be subject to other taxes and expenses on top of your pay.  Being a contractor they probably won't. Your client paying you directly in BTC is way less risky than the employment charade you are asking for.
sr. member
Activity: 312
Merit: 265
November 21, 2012, 04:14:35 AM
#16
I will spell it out for you -- it is a form of legal tax avoidance, which I support and am very interested in. I don't mind becoming a legal employee of that company, if I can arrange that I will pay less taxes.
vip
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1141
The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)
November 19, 2012, 03:25:01 PM
#15
This proposal shares all of the elements of "let me send you a check, you cash it, and send me the proceeds" scams.

It is an unusual requirement for a company to engage the services of a freelancer but require them to do business under the umbrella of a US corporation.  Most businesses would be happy paying an individual with nothing more than a tax ID number and an invoice at the most, if his or her services were deemed needed, as this meets all their accounting requirements.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
November 19, 2012, 02:51:20 PM
#14
Given the cost to from an LLC in most states is about $50, can be done online in about 30 minutes, and you can get a bank account, TaxID, and everything else necessary in about a weekend it doesn't really make any sense.

That is exactly right.

Having a software company temporarily hire you and accept contracts for you to work on is not lying or fraud, and it's a very common practice.

You're thinking of the situation where you actually know who you're hiring. This doesn't seem to be what's happening here. As far as we can see, the whole offer is, "I will transfer some money to your bank account from some other bank account and you send this money to me as irreversible, anonymous BTC."

Probably best to err on the side of caution, but obviously YMMV.

(Obviously, I didn't say it was fraud, I just pointed out that problem. It's you who said it is not fraud, and indeed that conclusion can't be jumped to.)
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1002
November 19, 2012, 11:56:30 AM
#13
Either way the company signing the contract is liable.  They are liable because they are liable for the actions of their real employees or they are liable because they made a false contract.
I'm well aware of that and never contradicted you. That's part of what they get paid for.

But all of you guys are making assumptions about the terms of the contract and this request.
It's not automatically "fraud" just because you've come up with some situation where it could be.

legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
November 19, 2012, 11:49:16 AM
#12
I think you're referring to a different situation than I am. Having a software company temporarily hire you and accept contracts for you to work on is not lying or fraud, and it's a very common practice. That's all I was saying. I didn't get the impression this guy was looking for someone to lie about anything.


Well, that's the idea...
As far as I see, he wants to get paid in Bitcoins. He doesn't say anything about lying.
Why would he?
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1080
Gerald Davis
November 19, 2012, 11:48:50 AM
#11
I think you're referring to a different situation than I am. Having a software company temporarily hire you and accept contracts for you to work on is not lying or fraud, and it's a very common practice. That's all I was saying. I didn't get the impression this guy was looking for someone to lie about anything.

When you hire an employee you become liable for their actions. The OP didn't seem to indicate he wanted to actually BE an employee (i.e. held accountable by the employer, employer double check contracts and work, hold wages to ensure employee delivers good work, etc).  He just wanted to pretend he is an employee.  If the company aids in that deception it is fraud.

The company signing the contract would be liable for any damages suffered by clients as a result of the company failure to fulfill the contract.  If the company doesn't disclose that the person doing the work wasn't actually an employee then they are also liable for any damages suffered by the client as a result of that misrepresentation.   Also any client would be stupid to accept a contract based on a shared lie.  If both parties know the contract is false (because OP really isn't an employee) then the contract has no value.   Thus it really is only useful for the OP if the company DOES lie.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1002
November 19, 2012, 11:47:21 AM
#10
I think you're referring to a different situation than I am. Having a software company temporarily hire you and accept contracts for you to work on is not lying or fraud, and it's a very common practice. That's all I was saying. I didn't get the impression this guy was looking for someone to lie about anything.


Well, that's the idea...
As far as I see, he wants to get paid in Bitcoins. He doesn't say anything about lying.
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 1009
November 19, 2012, 11:46:10 AM
#9
I think you're referring to a different situation than I am. Having a software company temporarily hire you and accept contracts for you to work on is not lying or fraud, and it's a very common practice.

This is not at all what's happening here. He wants a corporation as "representative" so he can hire out to another corp as a "freelancer-disguised-as-a-corp".
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
November 19, 2012, 11:44:44 AM
#8
I think you're referring to a different situation than I am. Having a software company temporarily hire you and accept contracts for you to work on is not lying or fraud, and it's a very common practice. That's all I was saying. I didn't get the impression this guy was looking for someone to lie about anything.


Well, that's the idea...
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1002
November 19, 2012, 11:42:12 AM
#7
I think you're referring to a different situation than I am. Having a software company temporarily hire you and accept contracts for you to work on is not lying or fraud, and it's a very common practice. That's all I was saying. I didn't get the impression this guy was looking for someone to lie about anything.

donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1080
Gerald Davis
November 19, 2012, 11:32:34 AM
#6
Sounds legit....

Of course there's that pesky problem of fraud.
This is not fraud.

Well it is fraud and it is incredibly stupid and risky.

A contract is a contract.  The contract for this unknown third party would be signed by the "parent company".  The company opens itself up to unlimited liability for a unknown third party outside their control.  For example if the OP stole from a client, delivered substandard work, or ran off with an advance who is going to be left holding the bag?  The company who signed the contract like an idiot of course.

By reporting to clients that this unknown third party is an employee the company is also lying to the clients.  Simple version: "lying for profit" = fraud. The company by making false statements makes it impossible for the client to accurately determine risk.  When you make false statements that others rely upon it makes you liable for damages they suffer. 

Given the cost to from an LLC in most states is about $50, can be done online in about 30 minutes, and you can get a bank account, TaxID, and everything else necessary in about a weekend it doesn't really make any sense.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
November 19, 2012, 11:30:25 AM
#5
What does the software business have to do with it? I mean if you want to send me money to buy bitcoins, I will be happy to help you with that lol I do it for customers in 3 different countries out side of the USA right now and most of them pay with CC and purchase over 1K at a time.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1002
November 19, 2012, 11:27:04 AM
#4
Sounds legit....

Of course there's that pesky problem of fraud.
This is not fraud.
sr. member
Activity: 312
Merit: 265
November 19, 2012, 11:19:56 AM
#3
I don't follow you -- what does advanced fee has to do with this? The only one at risk here is me because I must count on the guy sending me my bitcoin. (He will take out some agreed upon fee of course).
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
November 19, 2012, 06:41:38 AM
#2
Sounds legit....

Of course there's that pesky problem of fraud.
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