The only solution I'm seeing at the moment is you withholding more % to account for the increased power costs? I'm ok with that, as you can't operate at a loss.
Topic: [GLBSE] BFLS.RIG - BFL Hardware mining & Sales - page 7. (Read 28359 times)
Please do not invoke that clause after sooooooo many months of waiting!
The only solution I'm seeing at the moment is you withholding more % to account for the increased power costs? I'm ok with that, as you can't operate at a loss.
The only solution I'm seeing at the moment is you withholding more % to account for the increased power costs? I'm ok with that, as you can't operate at a loss.
Ok folks... we are at a critical juncture here and I'm looking for input on how to move forward.
I am not able to host all the singles, given the new power requirements. I would have to split it into separate DC's and even if I were to keep them in the current locations, the increased power cost far exceeds the 10% held back on the units. In short, I simply can't operate this number of singles even at break even on my part.
Obviously, this is an untenable situation for me. I'm considering invoking the original clause:
I am obviously not willing to operate at a continual loss. If anyone has suggestions on moving forward, I'm open to them.
I am not able to host all the singles, given the new power requirements. I would have to split it into separate DC's and even if I were to keep them in the current locations, the increased power cost far exceeds the 10% held back on the units. In short, I simply can't operate this number of singles even at break even on my part.
Obviously, this is an untenable situation for me. I'm considering invoking the original clause:
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Should mining become unprofitable or other circumstances cause the operator to be unable or unwilling to perform his duties, sale of all hardware and equal distribution of funds will commence according to the number of shares held by each individual.
I am obviously not willing to operate at a continual loss. If anyone has suggestions on moving forward, I'm open to them.
Yeah, I split payment to 50 BTC instead of 100 BTC to increase frequency. Meant to make a post on that but forgot.
As a side note, I'd appreciate everyone who's involved with this clicking on my Trust link and providing feedback with your experience.
My trust link is just under my picture on the left here.
As a side note, I'd appreciate everyone who's involved with this clicking on my Trust link and providing feedback with your experience.
My trust link is just under my picture on the left here.
Something changes? The last payment was initiated earlier than usually.
The first SC device has come or is coming?
The first SC device has come or is coming?
Kicked... payments should go out normally.
The payout script may need a kick ... 
Lots of the rigs have cards go inactive fairly often. I reset them when I notice them, but it's fairly difficult to manage so many damned cards. 9% seems a little high, I will have to take a look at the most problem units and see how often and how many cards go down. Normally I would pull the unit and replace it, but I kept thinking "We are replacing it with ASICs next week, it would be silly to pull it down and have it not mining for a day or two."
We all know how that worked out so far... /sigh
The good news is, the ASICs are rock @#$@ solid so far and very heat tolerant, so once the units are replaced with ASICs that problem should go away. I will look further into it to be sure something else isn't amiss though.
If anyone wants to cash in shares for a physical unit, please do!
Overall, I would say the average for a Minirig is closer to 23 - 23.5 GH/s not 25, on average. Some overperform, but most are underperforming on average due to cards going flakey.
We all know how that worked out so far... /sigh
The good news is, the ASICs are rock @#$@ solid so far and very heat tolerant, so once the units are replaced with ASICs that problem should go away. I will look further into it to be sure something else isn't amiss though.
If anyone wants to cash in shares for a physical unit, please do!
Overall, I would say the average for a Minirig is closer to 23 - 23.5 GH/s not 25, on average. Some overperform, but most are underperforming on average due to cards going flakey.
Since the end of December (when regular payments resumed after the GLBSE fiasco) I've been tracking the performance of BFLS.RIG. That is, actual dividends/share vs. expected dividends/share. For those interested in the details, I've put together a basic spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApYaV5Jgx7Z1dFNONFZXdVQ2dEhVWHJub0FXRjVxNkE&usp=sharing
To summarize, over the past 4 months it appears that BFLS.RIG is underperforming by about 9%. This is a long period, so random pool variance should be a non-issue. The discrepancy can be caused by a number of things: either my assumptions are incorrect, or there are more shares in existence than there should be. Here's a summary chart:
Assumptions:
nominal hashrate of minirig: 24320 Ghps (specced as 25600, but I'm assuming 5% 'overhead')
shares/minirig: 6058
Payouts can be tracked on the public blockchain by filtering for the BFLS.RIG payout address: 1FZkF2T8JmSYFPv9oUJYfqZnaJEtSoJ3Z6
Several of the outputs are obviously minirigs:
1qH6zqtR4pKuZSQHeAFsyhXm5F9KWDemw
1MichaiLHNbRqWbUueLAybqU4yJ74wqyaV
1NoN4hfM5ib7h84iqULf19XcYngxpigZay (2 minirigs here)
1LubzcqSPEcYbVBDghjpuVWuv38XtWUhVc (another 2)
19ReAQrjmRUbg7o2y37ApcXJ56ccooHK2X
113zpYnErj3TocLbt8edH8eMCSwTZ7rc4y
From any one of the above addresses we can directly calculate the actual dividends/share paid by BFLS.RIG and compare them with the expected payout (based on assumed minirig hashrate and network difficulty) during the period of time since the previous payout.
The results are that we are converging to being 9% 'under' expectations. I'm not sure what the reason for this is, or if there is cause for concern; if a minirig averaged only 22000 Ghps then we'd be dead-on ... could that be a more reasonable assumption (I don't have one to compare)? If anyone has experience with a minirig I'd like to hear what kind of average hashrate can be expected.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApYaV5Jgx7Z1dFNONFZXdVQ2dEhVWHJub0FXRjVxNkE&usp=sharing
To summarize, over the past 4 months it appears that BFLS.RIG is underperforming by about 9%. This is a long period, so random pool variance should be a non-issue. The discrepancy can be caused by a number of things: either my assumptions are incorrect, or there are more shares in existence than there should be. Here's a summary chart:
Assumptions:
nominal hashrate of minirig: 24320 Ghps (specced as 25600, but I'm assuming 5% 'overhead')
shares/minirig: 6058
Payouts can be tracked on the public blockchain by filtering for the BFLS.RIG payout address: 1FZkF2T8JmSYFPv9oUJYfqZnaJEtSoJ3Z6
Several of the outputs are obviously minirigs:
1qH6zqtR4pKuZSQHeAFsyhXm5F9KWDemw
1MichaiLHNbRqWbUueLAybqU4yJ74wqyaV
1NoN4hfM5ib7h84iqULf19XcYngxpigZay (2 minirigs here)
1LubzcqSPEcYbVBDghjpuVWuv38XtWUhVc (another 2)
19ReAQrjmRUbg7o2y37ApcXJ56ccooHK2X
113zpYnErj3TocLbt8edH8eMCSwTZ7rc4y
From any one of the above addresses we can directly calculate the actual dividends/share paid by BFLS.RIG and compare them with the expected payout (based on assumed minirig hashrate and network difficulty) during the period of time since the previous payout.
The results are that we are converging to being 9% 'under' expectations. I'm not sure what the reason for this is, or if there is cause for concern; if a minirig averaged only 22000 Ghps then we'd be dead-on ... could that be a more reasonable assumption (I don't have one to compare)? If anyone has experience with a minirig I'd like to hear what kind of average hashrate can be expected.
That's the current plan, yes.
I noticed on the butterflylabs.com forums that you mentioned you had 4 minirigs and 40+ Singles on order. Assuming those are 'upgrade' orders for BFLS, they represent roughly 4x6058 + 40x200 (= 32000) existing BFLS and RIG shares. And since you confirmed that all BFLS upgrade orders have been placed, I also assume that this represents *at least* all of the outstanding BFLS shares (I'd like to be corrected if my assumptions are wrong).Now, I don't know the total # of existing BFLS and RIG shares, but based on Sunday's payout of 158.8 BTC at a dividend of 0.0016 BTC/share, that works out to roughly 97500 shares being paid ... which is much more than the 32000. So payout is going to non-BFLS shareholders from this common pool as well, which is fine. A common pool for BFLS and non-BFLS is reasonable as long as all hardware is the same (i.e. FPGA minirigs and singles. Or ASIC minirigs and singles).
But ... I'd like to point out that once BFLS ASIC upgrades begin, you may want to remove the 'non-BFLS shareholders' from the common payout pool. My thinking is that if they do not upgrade (at the same time as you) and remain in the payout pool, they will a) get a higher payout due to ASIC hardware they do not own; and b) BFLS shareholders' dividends will be correspondingly (and unfairly) diminished.
(The above is based on the assumption that new shares would be issued based on https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1455088).
Of course, once the non-BFLS shareholders upgrade their own gear to ASIC, they can be brought in to the common BFLS pool once again.
Crap, you're right. I'll get that fixed tonight. I forgot that when i moved the EMC server, I had bitcoind that the payout script talks to talking only to the EMC bitcoind. I will rectify that tonight and get it started again and point it at more than one Bitcoind this time.
FYI: BFLS payout seems to be stuck.
Sounds good, thanks.
That's the current plan, yes.
Shares will remain exactly as they are now. Any new shares purchased going forward (if any) will be RIG shares.
Does this mean that if a person has 200 BFLS shares today, they would have 200 shares of 'BFLSSC' (or whatever it will be called) when the conversion to ASIC is done?(For reference I'm using this: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1455088)
i.e. a 200-share FPGA Single is converted to a 433-share SC Single (200/433 is the $600/$1300 price ratio). That is, the conversion would distribute 200 shares to the current shareholders and 233 shares to Inaba.
1. are all (or at least a large majority of) BFLS shares backed by Singles?
2. are all (or at least a large majority of) BFLS.RIG shares backed by MiniRigs?
2. are all (or at least a large majority of) BFLS.RIG shares backed by MiniRigs?
A bit of both in a fairly even distribution.
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3. can you share some details of your current plan in converting the existing BFLS and RIG hardware to SC ASIC? Specifically (but not limited to):
3a. is it your intention to convert ALL existing FPGA hardware?
3a. is it your intention to convert ALL existing FPGA hardware?
Yes, I intend to convert it all into minirigs at some point.
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3b. have the upgrade orders been placed with BFL yet?
Yes they have.
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3c. are any of these orders likely to be part of the 'first batch' shipment from BFL?
Some of them are, not all of them. The number that will be in the "first batch" is kind of up in the air at the moment, given the current disposition of our first batch. Since we have a limited number of available chips for the first batch, I will not, in good conscience, be taking a large swath of them.
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3d. what is the (best guess) expected rollout schedule once ASIC shipments start and conversion begins?
I don't currently have one, and will be doing this based on what's available and trying to serve the customers of BFL fairly.
And regarding BFLS and RIG share conversion:
Quote
4. will share conversion happen along the lines I've outlined here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1455088
4a. will BFLS and RIG shares be combined at this point, or still kept separate? Currently the hashrates of a BFLS and RIG share are essentially identical (1.5% advantage to RIG) but after conversion an 'SC BFLS' will have 10% more hashrate than an 'SC RIG' share. This may be an opportunity to combine the two into one pot using a 1:1.1 ratio as discussed earlier.
The reason I ask is that I've been using the blockchain to track BFLS(.RIG) dividend payments in detail since the end of December. This has been straightforward because the hardware is all FPGAs and both BFLS and RIG shares hash at approximately the same rate.
But that will no longer be case once ASICs start replacing them, so I'd like to get a sense of the hardware breakdown to be able to calculate the expected dividend payments. There will be a transition period until all FPGAs are replaced; I'm not too worried about tracking that. I'm more interested in what the final hardware will be and how it will map to 'SC BFLS' and 'SC RIG' shares. Or if the two share types will be combined going forward.
A lot of questions in here, and not the type to be answered easily or quickly; I apologize for that. But I'll thank you in advance for any clarification you can provide.
4a. will BFLS and RIG shares be combined at this point, or still kept separate? Currently the hashrates of a BFLS and RIG share are essentially identical (1.5% advantage to RIG) but after conversion an 'SC BFLS' will have 10% more hashrate than an 'SC RIG' share. This may be an opportunity to combine the two into one pot using a 1:1.1 ratio as discussed earlier.
The reason I ask is that I've been using the blockchain to track BFLS(.RIG) dividend payments in detail since the end of December. This has been straightforward because the hardware is all FPGAs and both BFLS and RIG shares hash at approximately the same rate.
But that will no longer be case once ASICs start replacing them, so I'd like to get a sense of the hardware breakdown to be able to calculate the expected dividend payments. There will be a transition period until all FPGAs are replaced; I'm not too worried about tracking that. I'm more interested in what the final hardware will be and how it will map to 'SC BFLS' and 'SC RIG' shares. Or if the two share types will be combined going forward.
A lot of questions in here, and not the type to be answered easily or quickly; I apologize for that. But I'll thank you in advance for any clarification you can provide.
Shares will remain exactly as they are now. Any new shares purchased going forward (if any) will be RIG shares.
I've been meaning to write this when the BFL ASICs started shipping, but it probably doesn't hurt to get the ball rolling on this a bit earlier. I may be opening a can of worms, though; we'll see.
Inaba, I have initial questions about the existing hardware and how it maps to outstanding BFLS and BFLS.RIG shares:
1. are all (or at least a large majority of) BFLS shares backed by Singles?
2. are all (or at least a large majority of) BFLS.RIG shares backed by MiniRigs?
Whether they are or not is not that important right now (unless someone wanted to convert their shares to hardware, I suppose), but it may become important with the conversion to ASIC. Which brings me to another set of questions:
3. can you share some details of your current plan in converting the existing BFLS and RIG hardware to SC ASIC? Specifically (but not limited to):
3a. is it your intention to convert ALL existing FPGA hardware?
3b. have the upgrade orders been placed with BFL yet?
3c. are any of these orders likely to be part of the 'first batch' shipment from BFL?
3d. what is the (best guess) expected rollout schedule once ASIC shipments start and conversion begins?
And regarding BFLS and RIG share conversion:
4. will share conversion happen along the lines I've outlined here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1455088
4a. will BFLS and RIG shares be combined at this point, or still kept separate? Currently the hashrates of a BFLS and RIG share are essentially identical (1.5% advantage to RIG) but after conversion an 'SC BFLS' will have 10% more hashrate than an 'SC RIG' share. This may be an opportunity to combine the two into one pot using a 1:1.1 ratio as discussed earlier.
The reason I ask is that I've been using the blockchain to track BFLS(.RIG) dividend payments in detail since the end of December. This has been straightforward because the hardware is all FPGAs and both BFLS and RIG shares hash at approximately the same rate.
But that will no longer be case once ASICs start replacing them, so I'd like to get a sense of the hardware breakdown to be able to calculate the expected dividend payments. There will be a transition period until all FPGAs are replaced; I'm not too worried about tracking that. I'm more interested in what the final hardware will be and how it will map to 'SC BFLS' and 'SC RIG' shares. Or if the two share types will be combined going forward.
A lot of questions in here, and not the type to be answered easily or quickly; I apologize for that. But I'll thank you in advance for any clarification you can provide.
Inaba, I have initial questions about the existing hardware and how it maps to outstanding BFLS and BFLS.RIG shares:
1. are all (or at least a large majority of) BFLS shares backed by Singles?
2. are all (or at least a large majority of) BFLS.RIG shares backed by MiniRigs?
Whether they are or not is not that important right now (unless someone wanted to convert their shares to hardware, I suppose), but it may become important with the conversion to ASIC. Which brings me to another set of questions:
3. can you share some details of your current plan in converting the existing BFLS and RIG hardware to SC ASIC? Specifically (but not limited to):
3a. is it your intention to convert ALL existing FPGA hardware?
3b. have the upgrade orders been placed with BFL yet?
3c. are any of these orders likely to be part of the 'first batch' shipment from BFL?
3d. what is the (best guess) expected rollout schedule once ASIC shipments start and conversion begins?
And regarding BFLS and RIG share conversion:
4. will share conversion happen along the lines I've outlined here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1455088
4a. will BFLS and RIG shares be combined at this point, or still kept separate? Currently the hashrates of a BFLS and RIG share are essentially identical (1.5% advantage to RIG) but after conversion an 'SC BFLS' will have 10% more hashrate than an 'SC RIG' share. This may be an opportunity to combine the two into one pot using a 1:1.1 ratio as discussed earlier.
The reason I ask is that I've been using the blockchain to track BFLS(.RIG) dividend payments in detail since the end of December. This has been straightforward because the hardware is all FPGAs and both BFLS and RIG shares hash at approximately the same rate.
But that will no longer be case once ASICs start replacing them, so I'd like to get a sense of the hardware breakdown to be able to calculate the expected dividend payments. There will be a transition period until all FPGAs are replaced; I'm not too worried about tracking that. I'm more interested in what the final hardware will be and how it will map to 'SC BFLS' and 'SC RIG' shares. Or if the two share types will be combined going forward.
A lot of questions in here, and not the type to be answered easily or quickly; I apologize for that. But I'll thank you in advance for any clarification you can provide.
Ok I'll go through the thread and look for it.
It can't be much shares. 10 for RIG and 20 to 30 for BFLS.(or less I don't know for sure). Maybe I do have a log somewhere.... I'll search for it!
It can't be much shares. 10 for RIG and 20 to 30 for BFLS.(or less I don't know for sure). Maybe I do have a log somewhere.... I'll search for it!
I sent out several emails, made a Google Doc and made a number of posts in these threads during the claims process over the course of a couple months. Feel free to read back in this and the BFLS threads to follow the course of events. All but a handful of shares were accounted for.
Is there any chance that you got a list of shareholders from nefario?
I can't access glbse (its gone), i don't have a list (my error i know) but i know that there must be a list out there since i was contacted by many other companies to claim my shares on several platforms!
I didn't here from you?
I can't access glbse (its gone), i don't have a list (my error i know) but i know that there must be a list out there since i was contacted by many other companies to claim my shares on several platforms!
I didn't here from you?
Payout script is disabled at the moment. I will have it running again tonight. I was diagnosing some latency issues with a couple of the boxes, one of them being the BFLS box. The latest payout should come tonight once I get a chance to sit down and re-enable it.
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