Please see updates @ https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bdk-bdkbnd-rebate-zipa-kronosbnd-hermes-update-thread-84363
I'll be writing up a proper thread both when I have more info and when I don't have a backlog of stuff to respond to. I'm sorry I can't immediately update everyone on everything. Please direct any questions you have to that thread.
Topic: [GLBSE] Kronos Floating Bond, IPO on June 15th (Read 5459 times)
Kronos.BND IPO has been canceled by GLBSE. We are working to resolve this. Please give us some time to work this out.
We have decided to list on Hermes once it's ready (I'll make a full announcement on Hermes within a week). All reservations made are currently void. We'll begin fundraising again once Hermes is ready for it.Relevant: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.928697
Hmm, as an investor, I can't say I'm a fan of this structure. It has equity-like risks, but without the upside potential gains that equity usually has.
I would be more interested in a fixed interest bond.
I would be more interested in a fixed interest bond.
Agreed, but I'll keep an eye on it. I'd like to see the site developed more. Things like the FAQ still not being done leave me wondering at what stage they're in with their security.
Kronos.BND IPO has been canceled by GLBSE. We are working to resolve this. Please give us some time to work this out.
When calculating the profits for distribution, are the one-off start-up costs (such as legal fees) counted against the first two-week profits, or are they spread out across the whole of the first year's operation?
It seems quite possible that Kronos will not turn a profit before buying back the bonds (due to start-up costs), even though Kronos may be wildly profitable after that.
It's my understanding that we're talking only about Kronos net operating profits, which don't include those large one-off startup costs. I'll ask again to make absolutely sure. It seems quite possible that Kronos will not turn a profit before buying back the bonds (due to start-up costs), even though Kronos may be wildly profitable after that.
When calculating the profits for distribution, are the one-off start-up costs (such as legal fees) counted against the first two-week profits, or are they spread out across the whole of the first year's operation?
It seems quite possible that Kronos will not turn a profit before buying back the bonds (due to start-up costs), even though Kronos may be wildly profitable after that.
It seems quite possible that Kronos will not turn a profit before buying back the bonds (due to start-up costs), even though Kronos may be wildly profitable after that.
I'll be holding well over 10k bonds myself, fwiw. No, I'm not selling my risk. You're misunderstanding a simple fact I've stated at least four times in this thread, now. IOU (that is, INAU and myself) is liable to bondholders in the event of a problem with Kronos.
Sorry but to me that doesn't mean much. You are just 2 guys behind a screen name(yes, I know you are GLBSE verified) who most likely live across the Atlantic. If you decided not to pay you can be sure I won't cross the ocean to get my $1300 and even if I did pursue it, would it be worth it or would I have any ground to stand on?
High risk, high reward. What you offer is high risk, very low reward(at least as I perceive it).
Thank you for answering my questions.
Doesn't this
?
Does that mean that for each bond you'll sell Kronos is only getting 0.1 BTC(the bond face value) and you'll just pocket the difference, hence making a profit, or am I undestanding it wrong?
Care to enlighten a dumb guy about the discrepancy?
Was I expected to do this out as charity? I have no equity stake in Kronos and Kronos cannot sell bonds to everyone legally or they'd very possibly violate accredited investor laws. Kronos needs funds now - not after launch, and so IOU is liable to Kronos to pay what's needed as needed. There's a tight time-schedule for when funds need to be paid to Kronos which can't be met by releasing all shares on June 15th. What we don't sell, we cover. Additionally, discovering I have lost my sense of humor has ruined my holiday, which JRO & team have been saved from. I will be going to the family picnic in a poor mood!Quote
Price per unit by order's unit volume
1500-7499 shares: .1125BTC/bond
7500-15000: .11BTC/bond
>15000: .105BTC/bond
contradicts this1500-7499 shares: .1125BTC/bond
7500-15000: .11BTC/bond
>15000: .105BTC/bond
Quote
Face Value: .1BTC
?Does that mean that for each bond you'll sell Kronos is only getting 0.1 BTC(the bond face value) and you'll just pocket the difference, hence making a profit, or am I undestanding it wrong?
Care to enlighten a dumb guy about the discrepancy?
So you want to turn a profit by selling your risk, interesting... Shouldn't that be the other way around?
I don't remember who said it before, but it's an idiot-tax indeed.
Good luck with your "IPO". Was planning to buy at least 2000 shares, but forget about it.
The only one with guaranteed profit is you, not your investors.
Sorry if I made you lose your sense of humor. Wasn't intended. You should've expected that people will ask questions when you ask them for money. Or are you keen for clouding things with vague wording instead of explaining things very clearly to potential investors? <--- You don't need to answer this, right now, I'm not a potential investor anymore.
Doesn't this
?
Does that mean that for each bond you'll sell Kronos is only getting 0.1 BTC(the bond face value) and you'll just pocket the difference, hence making a profit, or am I undestanding it wrong?
Care to enlighten a dumb guy about the discrepancy?
Was I expected to do this out as charity? I have no equity stake in Kronos and Kronos cannot sell bonds to everyone legally or they'd very possibly violate accredited investor laws. Kronos needs funds now - not after launch, and so IOU is liable to Kronos to pay what's needed as needed. There's a tight time-schedule for when funds need to be paid to Kronos which can't be met by releasing all shares on June 15th. What we don't sell, we cover. Additionally, discovering I have lost my sense of humor has ruined my holiday, which JRO & team have been saved from. I will be going to the family picnic in a poor mood!Quote
Price per unit by order's unit volume
1500-7499 shares: .1125BTC/bond
7500-15000: .11BTC/bond
>15000: .105BTC/bond
contradicts this1500-7499 shares: .1125BTC/bond
7500-15000: .11BTC/bond
>15000: .105BTC/bond
Quote
Face Value: .1BTC
?Does that mean that for each bond you'll sell Kronos is only getting 0.1 BTC(the bond face value) and you'll just pocket the difference, hence making a profit, or am I undestanding it wrong?
Care to enlighten a dumb guy about the discrepancy?
So you want to get the biggest part of the profit to yourself by selling your risk, interesting... Shouldn't that be the other way around?(Rethorical question only)
I don't remember who said it before, but it's an idiot-tax indeed.
Good luck with your "IPO". Was planning to buy at least 2000 shares, but forget about it.
The only one with guaranteed profit is you, not your investors.
Sorry if I made you lose your sense of humor. Wasn't intended. You should've expected that people will ask questions when you ask them for money. Or are you keen for clouding things with vague wording instead of explaining things very clearly to potential investors? <--- You don't need to answer this, right now, I'm not a potential investor anymore.
Can you please let us know the connection between IOU and BDK?
Thank you.
IOU is considered under the BDK umbrella. All risks, liabilities, assets, gains, and losses of IOU are also BDK's. If there is enough demand, I'd be very happy to consider them separate -- I was worried people'd be pissed if I separated them and then kept all IOU gains for myself. This wasn't in the original scope of BDK when the first 4.5% of BDK monthly profits were sold, so I can understand people wanting to go either way. I'd be happy to take liability of IOU on myself and not subject BDK to the risk nor potential reward, though.Thank you.
Motion created: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.926629
IANAL, but if one knowingly sells bonds to unaccredited investors via proxy, one probably violates those pesky security laws anyway.
Kronos is not offering this bond, by proxy or otherwise. I have no equity stake in Kronos. In the contract between IOU & Kronos, the bond sale was a final sale to IOU. It doesn't say "IOU will underwrite a security for Kronos and pay Kronos the proceeds minus a % fee." The contract has been reviewed by a lawyer.Potential causes of a default: zombie apocalypse, double-suicide, EMP strike, police raid, earthquake. Kronos defaulting on their bond to us isn't relevant to our deal with GLBSE bond-holders, though it would likely take a few months to get all funds due to bond-holders in the event of a Kronos default.
Min. Annual Interest Rate by tier in worst-case scenario, assuming no dividends paid and buyback not occurring until 180D after bond issued:
.115BTC/bond = 0% APR
.1125BTC/bond = ~4.444% APR
.11BTC/bond = ~9.09% APR
.105BTC/bond = ~19.047619% APR
. Additionally, discovering I have lost my sense of humor has ruined my holiday, which JRO & team have been saved from. I will be going to the family picnic in a poor mood!
Just don't take things so personally.... the trolls are there for 1BTC loans and 1M$ mining companies and everything in between
IANAL, but if one knowingly sells bonds to unaccredited investors via proxy, one probably violates those pesky securities laws anyway.
Doesn't this
?
Does that mean that for each bond you'll sell Kronos is only getting 0.1 BTC(the bond face value) and you'll just pocket the difference, hence making a profit, or am I undestanding it wrong?
Care to enlighten a dumb guy about the discrepancy?
Was I expected to do this out as charity? I have no equity stake in Kronos and Kronos cannot sell bonds to everyone legally or they'd very possibly violate accredited investor laws. Kronos needs funds now - not after launch, and so IOU is liable to Kronos to pay what's needed as needed. There's a tight time-schedule for when funds need to be paid to Kronos which can't be met by releasing all shares on June 15th. What we don't sell, we cover. Additionally, discovering I have lost my sense of humor has ruined my holiday, which JRO & team have been saved from. I will be going to the family picnic in a poor mood! Quote
Price per unit by order's unit volume
1500-7499 shares: .1125BTC/bond
7500-15000: .11BTC/bond
>15000: .105BTC/bond
contradicts this1500-7499 shares: .1125BTC/bond
7500-15000: .11BTC/bond
>15000: .105BTC/bond
Quote
Face Value: .1BTC
?Does that mean that for each bond you'll sell Kronos is only getting 0.1 BTC(the bond face value) and you'll just pocket the difference, hence making a profit, or am I undestanding it wrong?
Care to enlighten a dumb guy about the discrepancy?
Also giving annualised minimum interest rates for every tier would be great. You surely do not want to mislead investors, so it must be a good idea.
What kind of risks are there, i.e. what would potentially cause you to default and return nothing or less than invested capital?
What kind of risks are there, i.e. what would potentially cause you to default and return nothing or less than invested capital?
Doesn't this
?
Does that mean that for each bond you sell Kronos is only getting 0.1 BTC(the bond face value) and you'll just pocket the difference, hence making a profit, or am I undestanding it wrong?
Care to enlighten a dumb guy about the discrepancy?
Quote
Price per unit by order's unit volume
1500-7499 shares: .1125BTC/bond
7500-15000: .11BTC/bond
>15000: .105BTC/bond
contradicts this1500-7499 shares: .1125BTC/bond
7500-15000: .11BTC/bond
>15000: .105BTC/bond
Quote
Face Value: .1BTC
?Does that mean that for each bond you sell Kronos is only getting 0.1 BTC(the bond face value) and you'll just pocket the difference, hence making a profit, or am I undestanding it wrong?
Care to enlighten a dumb guy about the discrepancy?
If someone's not willing to read the entirety of the OP, they probably shouldn't be investing hundreds of BTC in this, anyway.
Also if someone is just trolling and not willing to invest a single bitpenny, he should not try to read the entirety of the OP. Too bad OP had failed to do executive summary.
IPO date: June 15th
Face Value: .1BTC
Dividends: .00011428571% of Kronos net profit per bond unit paid every 14 days
Buyback Value: .115BTC, will be bought back by 12/12/12
Price per unit by order's unit volume
1500-7499 shares: .1125BTC/bond
7500-15000: .11BTC/bond
>15000: .105BTC/bond
I can condense it further....
IPO date: June 15th
Face Value: .1BTC
Dividends: .00011428571% of Kronos net profit per bond unit paid every 14 days
Buyback Value: .115BTC, will be bought back by 12/12/12
Price per unit by order's unit volume
1500-7499 shares: .1125BTC/bond
7500-15000: .11BTC/bond
>15000: .105BTC/bond
Vladimir seems to have a lot of free time lately
LOL, yep, waiting for ASIC's to be printed do that to people.
Vladimir seems to have a lot of free time lately
If someone's not willing to read the entirety of the OP, they probably shouldn't be investing hundreds of BTC in this, anyway.
Also if someone is just trolling and not willing to invest a single bitpenny, he should not try to read the entirety of the OP. Too bad OP had failed to do executive summary.
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