Global Internet connection goes down and Bitcoin Network is not affected.

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Quote from: LbtalkL on February 24, 2020, 10:58:37 AM

Yes, You have read it correctly. I am amazed myself, Recently I found out even if the Global Internet connection goes down, Bitcoin Network is not affected at all. Why and How? I just find out this website called Blockstream I am not promoting it whatsoever. They bring bitcoin into space they have this thing called Blockstream Satellite and running 24/7 for free around the world with different satellite every continent. I might be wrong on how I understood it I don't know how true is this but I am excited what is your views and opinions about this?

Source: https://blockstream.com/satellite/#satellite_network-coverage

How significant is the coverage decrease? Where does it occur and for how long? The answers to these questions are crucial to determining what's going on here. If, say, the coverage drops in a country where Bitcoin is barely used, no wonder it does not affect Bitcoin. If these are minor and temporary coverage issues, it is also unlikely to affect Bitcoin. In any case, I believe that Bitcoin depends on the Internet a lot nowadays. Bitcoin would not be that valuable if it was not convenient to exchange it. I am not saying it's impossible to exchange BTC without the Internet but the vast majority of users would not know how to do that and would not really be interested in doing that.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Arkann on February 26, 2020, 03:06:27 PM

Undoubtedly using the Internet via satellite

I mean, obviously you can use the internet via satellite, but this is not what blockstream satellite is. They transmit the most up to date blocks to anyone on the planet for free. You don't need to a subscription to use their service.

Quote from: Arkann on February 26, 2020, 03:06:27 PM

but there are countries where in certain places there are opportunities for mining due to cheap electricity, but access to the Internet is difficult.

Again, this is a one way transmission only. You can only receive data from the satellite, not broadcast back to it (like you would with internet via satellite). Mining via the blockstream satellite without an internet connection would be impossible - even if you found a block first, you would have no way of transmitting your block to the rest of the network, and since the rest of the network couldn't see your block, it would continue on mining as if your block didn't exist.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on February 26, 2020, 03:52:24 AM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on February 25, 2020, 09:10:20 PM

I thought Using satellite may cause additional costs and it needs internet connections for making transections.

So, there is a small set up cost when running a full node via Blockstream Satellite, as you obviously need a satellite dish and a low-noise block downconverter (the bit that sticks out in front of the satellite dish on a little arm), as well the necessary cables to connect your satellite receiver to your computer, but you can also repurpose an old TV dish or similar. Once it is set up, however, it is free to receive blockchain data from the satellite network.

Internet connectivity is still needed at some point to transmit a transaction, though. You cannot send a transaction directly back up to the satellites. If you don't have an internet connection, then there are other systems that I mentioned before such as goTenna, which will essentially transmit your transaction through a local network of devices until it reaches one with an internet connection, at which point it can be broadcast to the bitcoin network. From there it will be propagated in the normal way.

Undoubtedly using the Internet via satellite is a very expensive pleasure and you have to pay a lot of money for all the necessary equipment, but there are countries where in certain places there are opportunities for mining due to cheap electricity, but access to the Internet is difficult. Based on this, it is quite logical to work via satellite. At least I think that all the expenses will be more than swimming.

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on February 25, 2020, 09:10:20 PM

I thought Using satellite may cause additional costs and it needs internet connections for making transections.

So, there is a small set up cost when running a full node via Blockstream Satellite, as you obviously need a satellite dish and a low-noise block downconverter (the bit that sticks out in front of the satellite dish on a little arm), as well the necessary cables to connect your satellite receiver to your computer, but you can also repurpose an old TV dish or similar. Once it is set up, however, it is free to receive blockchain data from the satellite network.

Internet connectivity is still needed at some point to transmit a transaction, though. You cannot send a transaction directly back up to the satellites. If you don't have an internet connection, then there are other systems that I mentioned before such as goTenna, which will essentially transmit your transaction through a local network of devices until it reaches one with an internet connection, at which point it can be broadcast to the bitcoin network. From there it will be propagated in the normal way.

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Quote from: LbtalkL on February 24, 2020, 10:58:37 AM

Yes, You have read it correctly. I am amazed myself, Recently I found out even if the Global Internet connection goes down, Bitcoin Network is not affected at all. Why and How? I just find out this website called Blockstream I am not promoting it whatsoever. They bring bitcoin into space they have this thing called Blockstream Satellite and running 24/7 for free around the world with different satellite every continent. I might be wrong on how I understood it I don't know how true is this but I am excited what is your views and opinions about this?

You are incorrect to say the least. Sorry to break your illusion, but the famous "Bitcoin satellite" is one way only. The blockchain is a giant monster (250g), it is very nice keep your local copy of the blockchain in sync for free using that satellite, but that's all it does. It has no return path, you need the internet to broadcast transactions.

On the other hand, using satellite for the return path isn't very scalable, which is why the likes of Google and Elon Musk are launching so many of them for their internet service. Each satellite has limited bandwidth, too limited to allocate all users.

The linked site rents a data broadcast channel from various satellite operators, this data stream can be picked up by anyone with the antenna receiver pc in the areas with coverage. You could remove the bandwidth consumption for receiving blockchain updates by using this satellite link.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on February 25, 2020, 11:25:39 AM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on February 25, 2020, 11:05:38 AM

Though, it sounds great to hear that bitcoins have its own satellite for the users to be able to transact money whenever and wherever they want but it’s pretty unless.

It definitely isn't useless.

Blockstream satellite is a great initiative. It provides redundancy throughout the bitcoin network. It allows people to keep a node fully up to date without an internet connection, which in many parts of the world would be either impossible due to patchy or entirely absent internet access, or prohibitively expensive due to internet bandwidth costs. It can even be partnered with mesh networks such as goTenna or SMS gateways, allowing you to both send and receive bitcoin without an internet connection at all.

Have a read of their website to learn some more: https://blockstream.com/satellite/

Thank you to clarify it, I thought Using satellite may cause additional costs and it needs internet connections for making transections.
If it broadcasts the Bitcoin blockchain for free and if the transaction can be done without internet connection then it seems useful cause till now internet connection is rare and expensive in many parts of the world.

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There are several alternatives . LoRa is one that may gain popular approval. Software controlled radio is a bit limited, but it could be useful in some remote locations, but it would need an internet connection at some stage. Elon Musk is putting together a satellite system that could be used, and a couple of mobile network providers are going to be getting in on the act.

The really interesting topic will be the way all these different transport mechanisms can be integrated to avoid the creation of large numbers of orphan blocks.

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on February 25, 2020, 11:05:38 AM

That is something I learned new today.
I mean, Though, it sounds great to hear that bitcoins have its own satellite for the users to be able to transact money whenever and wherever they want but it’s pretty unless. If the transaction was done using only the Satellite then it would be ok but the Satellite needs internet connection as well. So, using the Satellite will increase the cost nothing else.

This is a very nice idea but bitcoin's progression through the years are slowing down perhaps there is a huge entity that will make this come true to life. But wouldn't it not be that risky for the crypto space? I mean if these satellites are shutting then it could also happen if there is a crypto satellite. On top of that problem, who would be in charge of doing that? take note that this is decentralized.

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Quote from: Ucy on February 25, 2020, 12:15:44 PM

People should by now be brainstorming on how to create a decentralized global internet network. There are few viable "flying things" that can be used for this.

The internet is already decentralized, but not everywhere - countries like China and Russia are testing the mechanisms of shutting it down in their countries or cutting themselves off from the global network. So having some sort of censorship-resistant satellite-based Internet providers could potentially solve this problem, all we need after that is just some competition to avoid relying too much on a single provider.

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It's a nice idea. My only problem with things like that is centralization. We could rely too much on the satellites and forget to create something decentralized and hard to censors.
People should by now be brainstorming on how to create a decentralized global internet network. There are few viable "flying things" that can be used for this.

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Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on February 25, 2020, 11:05:38 AM

Though, it sounds great to hear that bitcoins have its own satellite for the users to be able to transact money whenever and wherever they want but it’s pretty unless.

It definitely isn't useless.

Blockstream satellite is a great initiative. It provides redundancy throughout the bitcoin network. It allows people to keep a node fully up to date without an internet connection, which in many parts of the world would be either impossible due to patchy or entirely absent internet access, or prohibitively expensive due to internet bandwidth costs. It can even be partnered with mesh networks such as goTenna or SMS gateways, allowing you to both send and receive bitcoin without an internet connection at all.

Have a read of their website to learn some more: https://blockstream.com/satellite/

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That is something I learned new today.
I mean, Though, it sounds great to hear that bitcoins have its own satellite for the users to be able to transact money whenever and wherever they want but it’s pretty unless. If the transaction was done using only the Satellite then it would be ok but the Satellite needs internet connection as well. So, using the Satellite will increase the cost nothing else.

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Every time I hear the word satellite I can't help thinking of the documentary that discusses satellites aren't true. None of the pictures how it look is actually real all of them are just photo manipulations representing like it has two wings and all. Computers talk to each other same thing as all devices that can communicate since they all follow same protocols which builds the network we are in and thus we call internet to which we imagine to be the cloud but in reality its computer networks network and as long as it exist BTC will survive.

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Blockstream satellite communication is functioning in a single direction, you can obtain the data broadcasted by the system only. And as someone mentioned it works with commercial satellite, the same used for TV relay.

Actually we may think about SMS (?). International communications still rely on communications satellites like Inmarsat and Euteltracs.
We could send an SMS going to a satellite, if the internet connection goes down worldwide it won't be a problem anymore.
Or even the phone network with copper

seoincorporation

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Great article, even is a meteorite hits the earth and starts a new glacial era bitcoin could survive. The fun fact is it will not have a value if all the humans die. Tongue

This reminds me of the Radio blockchain project, this one takes bitcoin out of the internet and moves the blocks with Radiofrequency.

https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-coders-send-international-lightning-payment-over-ham-radio

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I certainly doubt that the internet connection was down entirely in recent times. Please check the correctness of this news. If the internet goes down around the world, it's a braking news but fortunately I couldn't find anything that can support OP's claim! There was no shutdown at all at the global level, some local area can be affected but no news is found for that either! Seems like a FUD that OP couldn't catch!

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Quote from: LbtalkL on February 24, 2020, 11:37:38 AM

But my point here even with Global Internet connection goes down worldwide bitcoin network is still running at space right?

No. Where do you think the satellites get the data about the latest transactions/blocks to transmit? If the internet goes down, then not only are all the nodes on Earth unable to access the bitcoin network, but so too are the satellites, and so they have nothing to transmit. Further, the satellites are one way only - you can only use them to receive the most recent data, and not to broadcast transactions. So if the internet goes down, then no new transactions can be broadcast.

Quote from: LbtalkL on February 24, 2020, 11:37:38 AM

People on space can use bitcoins continuously even if something like that will happen

And who is going to mine the next block when all of the miners on Earth have been disconnected from the network?

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I think we’re taking the expectations way too far here. Unless I’m wrong, this blockstream satellite project is the same one that Andreas Antonopoulos talks about here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1GxxlqRkKQ

The video is eight minutes long, so it’s easy to watch, and the first 2 minutes give you the basics.

Esentially, the satellites used are existing commercial satellites, on which a specific bandwith (/frequencies) is leased in order to transmit updated blocks and TXs. There are no nodes there, so, as far as I’m aware of, they only relay information in one direction, and a case use is that of avoiding censorship or gaining privacy as per the above video stated.

To receive BTC blockchain you need to invest at least 150$ to acquire a satellite dish,
change the Transceiver on the dish , and use a specific software based radio receiver. If I’ve read it right, it’s certainly not bidirectional, and in no way does it support global internet failure for Bitcoin TXs, as it does not have nodes of it’s own (nor are they expected to be there really).

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Quote from: ranochigo on February 24, 2020, 11:06:42 AM

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Quote from: BrewMaster on February 24, 2020, 11:23:06 AM

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Thanks for your inputs, But my point here even with Global Internet connection goes down worldwide bitcoin network is still running at space right? People on space can use bitcoins continuously even if something like that will happen but I hope not, internet has been a part of our daily lives now Cheesy

. Of course, people on earth cannot access it.

@DdmrDdmr
Thanks for the video I will be watching it to learn more about this topic.

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that's not how it works. the blockstream satellite still requires internet to connect to the bitcoin network. however, you as the individual user of this centralized service don't need any internet. otherwise all the nodes, the miners, pools,... need the internet to communicate with each other.
believe it or not, there is no communication medium yet created that can replace internet. everything else is either short range, heavily centralized or inefficient.

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