GOLD Asset Backed Security (ABS) - Closed - page 2.

MarketNeutral

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Quote from: brendio on May 14, 2012, 01:54:28 AM

Quote from: Btc4Domains on May 11, 2012, 07:37:17 PM

The bond money would not be used to buy gold.

So why is this called a gold bond? It's really just a bond for your business for which you have put up some gold as collateral. So why all the other assets too for different commodities?

I know. I know. The word 'bond' is thrown around here to the point of almost becoming meaningless.

"Hey, mom? Can I borrow twenty dollars?"

"Sure, honey! You can have one of my Mom Bonds."

100% backed by Mom.

All bonds are loans, but not all loans are bonds.

....unless, of course, you're trying to add a sense of legitimacy. Roll Eyes

Btc4Domains

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Quote from: brendio on May 14, 2012, 01:54:28 AM

Quote from: Btc4Domains on May 11, 2012, 07:37:17 PM

The bond money would not be used to buy gold.

So why is this called a gold bond? It's really just a bond for your business for which you have put up some gold as collateral. So why all the other assets too for different commodities?

It' not a bond, I apologize.

brendio

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Quote from: Btc4Domains on May 11, 2012, 07:37:17 PM

The bond money would not be used to buy gold.

So why is this called a gold bond? It's really just a bond for your business for which you have put up some gold as collateral. So why all the other assets too for different commodities?

Btc4Domains

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Quote from: brendio on May 10, 2012, 08:40:23 PM

Question: If the BTC raised from the bond offering is used to buy the gold backing the bond, how can it also earn income from your domain-based business? This would imply that the bond is NOT fully gold backed.

The gold has been purchased over the past 5 years. The BTC is not being used to purchase gold.

Btc4Domains

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Quote from: alatus on May 10, 2012, 09:30:31 AM

Thanks for the detailed answer. Makes sense.
To summarize: As I understand, as long as the bond exists, and I am the holder, I am technically holding a given quantity of physical gold in a vault, that on top of it gives me some return. I am not able to claim my investment value in gold, but am served with it in case of a default. (How is a quite complex question...)
You plan to adjust your gold stocks to hold a value of... That part is not yet clear to me.
Can You please elaborate more? Or am I completely mistaken, and the whole thing is different? Thanks for the patience! :-)

That's right, and the value is USD. If the USD value of BTC assets issued is more than the USD value of the physical gold held in storage, then either BTC assets are bought back or more physical gold is purchased to balance the respective USD values.

Quote from: redbeans2012 on May 10, 2012, 12:06:21 PM

If I want to sell the bond back, can I sell it back to the issuer at any time? or do i have to hold it until i can find a buyer in the market like a stock?

If it's possible to set that up on GLBSE then yes.

brendio

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Question: If the BTC raised from the bond offering is used to buy the gold backing the bond, how can it also earn income from your domain-based business? This would imply that the bond is NOT fully gold backed.

redbeans2012

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Cool thanks for the explanation about bonds. I felt like a total idiot in this arena. I have one more question though. If I want to sell the bond back, can I sell it back to the issuer at any time? or do i have to hold it until i can find a buyer in the market like a stock?

Undecided

alatus

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Thanks for the detailed answer. Makes sense.
To summarize: As I understand, as long as the bond exists, and I am the holder, I am technically holding a given quantity of physical gold in a vault, that on top of it gives me some return. I am not able to claim my investment value in gold, but am served with it in case of a default. (How is a quite complex question...)
You plan to adjust your gold stocks to hold a value of... That part is not yet clear to me.
Can You please elaborate more? Or am I completely mistaken, and the whole thing is different? Thanks for the patience! :-)

Btc4Domains

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Just on that note about bonds being sold at a discount..

Quote from: Kluge on May 09, 2012, 08:35:03 PM

I'd be happy to exchange loans to you @ 3.5% paid monthly instead of going through GLBSE for physical goods held as collateral. I'm not sure how to handle the other 8 IPOs you've listed on GLBSE in the past couple days, but I'd do up to 2k BTC. No weekly dividends you have to split between accounts, don't have to monitor all those different stores. I would not pay shipping, though (has to be shipped to US, or I could probably get a person in NZ to hold it for me). Sending PMs to me isn't reversible, and sending BTC to you isn't reversible. Can use an uninterested, well-respected party for escrow during transfers.
Cheers!
ETA: Fwiw, this was a bluff before I talked to INAU and learned OP is legit. Though... I'd definitely be interested in something like this.

Thank you Kluge

Btc4Domains

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Here goes..

Quote from: alatus on May 08, 2012, 09:15:45 AM

Please elaborate on the details of Your business plan!
The bond is gold backed. Ok. But where does the profit for the dividend come from?
Otherwise: great direction! Congrats!

Hi alatus, the profit for the dividend will come from the profit I can make with the BTC asset capital raised investing it in bitcoin.

Quote from: Raize on May 09, 2012, 01:25:49 PM

Quote from: brendio on May 08, 2012, 07:10:33 PM

I assumed he's paying out of capital, and the gold backing of the bond will erode over time.
Maybe we shouldn't assume.

You're right, on a second look that appears to be the case, he is paying very small amounts as dividends, it would appear. It is a very interesting idea, unfortunately if he is actually selling them he is probably working with capital gains taxes that are going to hurt him in the long run unless he's working off his own gold holdings.

I suppose it's a smart idea assuming he can avoid unnecessary taxes and fees. Once his reserves are depleted he'll have to start selling Bitcoin for cash and then use the cash to buy more gold.

Capital Gains Tax is not a very significant issue with the bullion held. The average price it was purchased for (with premium) and its value now are relatively similar. The capital gain is also over multiple years.

Quote from: PatrickHarnett on May 09, 2012, 08:50:01 PM

What prevents you selling the gold? (Seems to be the obvious question)

I'm planning to setup a Trust and Company that holds the bullion, and owns the storage account. I own this trust and the company but will not be the Director of the company or act on behalf of the Trustee. I'm looking for a third party firm that can provide regular auditing.

From redbeans2012
"One more question. Is face value the original price the bonds were released at or is it something else.
Thanks for your information. I think I'm ready to jump in now."

By face value/issue price, I mean the price the assets are issued at.

The assets could be sold at a discount or premium, but the issue price remains the same.

redbeans2012

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Quote from: Jonathan Ryan Owens on May 09, 2012, 10:47:51 PM

Quote from: redbeans2012 on May 09, 2012, 10:37:02 PM

Quote from: Jonathan Ryan Owens on May 09, 2012, 10:12:09 PM

Quote from: redbeans2012 on May 09, 2012, 09:22:26 PM

I'm sorry for this question, but can someone explain how bonds work?

I understand shares and such, and love the GLBSE. I just don't understand bonds.

Is buying and selling the same way?

How can you lose buying a bond?

I understand bail bonds Tongue

Thanks for your replies.

Did someone say bail bonds?

confession: I just registered bailcoin.com in your honor.

-- redbeans2012:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)

"In finance, a bond is a debt security, in which the authorized issuer owes the holders a debt and, depending on the terms of the bond, is obliged to pay interest (the coupon) to use and/or to repay the principal at a later date, termed maturity. A bond is a formal contract to repay borrowed money with interest at fixed intervals (semi annual, annual, sometimes monthly).[1]

Thus a bond is like a loan: the holder of the bond is the lender (creditor), the issuer of the bond is the borrower (debtor), and the coupon is the interest. Bonds provide the borrower with external funds to finance long-term investments, or, in the case of government bonds, to finance current expenditure. Certificates of deposit (CDs) or commercial paper are considered to be money market instruments and not bonds."

Thanks.. actually the bailcoin idea seems great lol. Once the government starts clamping down, we might need it.

Ok yeah I did that wiki search.. was just wondering how it worked in terms of Glbse.. Do I sell the bond back or just hold it forever and collect the dividends on it? Can I trade the bonds?

It's basically private placement for bitcoins, and a secondary market that lets users trade the asset. You don't have a guarantee that stocks bonds or futures on glbse will pay, or end up being worth anything. Stock infers equity ownership, Bond infers a debt relationship of some type (explained in the contract area).

Cheers.
-Jonathan

One more question. Is face value the original price the bonds were released at or is it something else.

Thanks for your information. I think I'm ready to jump in now.

Jonathan Ryan Owens

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Activity: 392

Merit: 252

Quote from: redbeans2012 on May 09, 2012, 10:37:02 PM

Quote from: Jonathan Ryan Owens on May 09, 2012, 10:12:09 PM

Quote from: redbeans2012 on May 09, 2012, 09:22:26 PM

I'm sorry for this question, but can someone explain how bonds work?

I understand shares and such, and love the GLBSE. I just don't understand bonds.

Is buying and selling the same way?

How can you lose buying a bond?

I understand bail bonds Tongue

Thanks for your replies.

Did someone say bail bonds?

confession: I just registered bailcoin.com in your honor.

-- redbeans2012:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)

"In finance, a bond is a debt security, in which the authorized issuer owes the holders a debt and, depending on the terms of the bond, is obliged to pay interest (the coupon) to use and/or to repay the principal at a later date, termed maturity. A bond is a formal contract to repay borrowed money with interest at fixed intervals (semi annual, annual, sometimes monthly).[1]

Thus a bond is like a loan: the holder of the bond is the lender (creditor), the issuer of the bond is the borrower (debtor), and the coupon is the interest. Bonds provide the borrower with external funds to finance long-term investments, or, in the case of government bonds, to finance current expenditure. Certificates of deposit (CDs) or commercial paper are considered to be money market instruments and not bonds."

Thanks.. actually the bailcoin idea seems great lol. Once the government starts clamping down, we might need it.

Ok yeah I did that wiki search.. was just wondering how it worked in terms of Glbse.. Do I sell the bond back or just hold it forever and collect the dividends on it? Can I trade the bonds?

It's basically private placement for bitcoins, and a secondary market that lets users trade the asset. You don't have a guarantee that stocks bonds or futures on glbse will pay, or end up being worth anything. Stock infers equity ownership, Bond infers a debt relationship of some type (explained in the contract area).

Cheers.
-Jonathan

redbeans2012

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Activity: 887

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Jonathan Ryan Owens on May 09, 2012, 10:12:09 PM

Quote from: redbeans2012 on May 09, 2012, 09:22:26 PM

I'm sorry for this question, but can someone explain how bonds work?

I understand shares and such, and love the GLBSE. I just don't understand bonds.

Is buying and selling the same way?

How can you lose buying a bond?

I understand bail bonds Tongue

Thanks for your replies.

Did someone say bail bonds?

confession: I just registered bailcoin.com in your honor.

-- redbeans2012:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)

"In finance, a bond is a debt security, in which the authorized issuer owes the holders a debt and, depending on the terms of the bond, is obliged to pay interest (the coupon) to use and/or to repay the principal at a later date, termed maturity. A bond is a formal contract to repay borrowed money with interest at fixed intervals (semi annual, annual, sometimes monthly).[1]

Thus a bond is like a loan: the holder of the bond is the lender (creditor), the issuer of the bond is the borrower (debtor), and the coupon is the interest. Bonds provide the borrower with external funds to finance long-term investments, or, in the case of government bonds, to finance current expenditure. Certificates of deposit (CDs) or commercial paper are considered to be money market instruments and not bonds."

Thanks.. actually the bailcoin idea seems great lol. Once the government starts clamping down, we might need it.

Ok yeah I did that wiki search.. was just wondering how it worked in terms of Glbse.. Do I sell the bond back or just hold it forever and collect the dividends on it? Can I trade the bonds?

Jonathan Ryan Owens

donator

Activity: 392

Merit: 252

Quote from: redbeans2012 on May 09, 2012, 09:22:26 PM

I'm sorry for this question, but can someone explain how bonds work?

I understand shares and such, and love the GLBSE. I just don't understand bonds.

Is buying and selling the same way?

How can you lose buying a bond?

I understand bail bonds Tongue

Thanks for your replies.

Did someone say bail bonds?

confession: I just registered bailcoin.com in your honor.

-- redbeans2012:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_(finance)

"In finance, a bond is a debt security, in which the authorized issuer owes the holders a debt and, depending on the terms of the bond, is obliged to pay interest (the coupon) to use and/or to repay the principal at a later date, termed maturity. A bond is a formal contract to repay borrowed money with interest at fixed intervals (semi annual, annual, sometimes monthly).[1]

Thus a bond is like a loan: the holder of the bond is the lender (creditor), the issuer of the bond is the borrower (debtor), and the coupon is the interest. Bonds provide the borrower with external funds to finance long-term investments, or, in the case of government bonds, to finance current expenditure. Certificates of deposit (CDs) or commercial paper are considered to be money market instruments and not bonds."

redbeans2012

hero member

Activity: 887

Merit: 1000

I'm sorry for this question, but can someone explain how bonds work?

I understand shares and such, and love the GLBSE. I just don't understand bonds.

Is buying and selling the same way?

How can you lose buying a bond?

I understand bail bonds Tongue

Thanks for your replies.

MarketNeutral

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 252

Quote from: PatrickHarnett on May 09, 2012, 09:14:48 PM

Quote from: MarketNeutral on May 09, 2012, 09:02:07 PM

In what form is the gold? Is it .9999, .9995, .999, a mix?? Is it in bar form? If so, kilo bars, london good delivery bars, ten ounce bars, etc? Who are the manufacturers? Johnson Matthey? Heraeus? Credit Suisse? PAMP? Do the bars have serial numbers? Can you provide a list of the serial numbers to verify with the manufacturer? Or are they in coin form? Which coins? 1 ounce maples? Etc.

More info on the physical gold, please.

The OP says:
Brands: ABC Bullion 1 Oz Gold Bars
Perth Mint 1 Oz Gold Nugget Coins

That must cover half of the questions. You can probably look up the fineness from the relevant web site.

Thank you, I missed that.
My apologies.

PatrickHarnett

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Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: MarketNeutral on May 09, 2012, 09:02:07 PM

In what form is the gold? Is it .9999, .9995, .999, a mix?? Is it in bar form? If so, kilo bars, london good delivery bars, ten ounce bars, etc? Who are the manufacturers? Johnson Matthey? Heraeus? Credit Suisse? PAMP? Do the bars have serial numbers? Can you provide a list of the serial numbers to verify with the manufacturer? Or are they in coin form? Which coins? 1 ounce maples? Etc.

More info on the physical gold, please.

The OP says:
Brands: ABC Bullion 1 Oz Gold Bars
Perth Mint 1 Oz Gold Nugget Coins

That must cover half of the questions. You can probably look up the fineness from the relevant web site.

MarketNeutral

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 252

In what form is the gold? Is it .9999, .9995, .999, a mix?? Is it in bar form? If so, kilo bars, london good delivery bars, ten ounce bars, etc? Who are the manufacturers? Johnson Matthey? Heraeus? Credit Suisse? PAMP? Do the bars have serial numbers? Can you provide a list of the serial numbers to verify with the manufacturer? Or are they in coin form? Which coins? 1 ounce maples? Etc.

More info on the physical gold, please.

PatrickHarnett

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

What prevents you selling the gold? (Seems to be the obvious question)

Kluge

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1015

I'd be happy to exchange loans to you @ 3.5% paid monthly instead of going through GLBSE for physical goods held as collateral. I'm not sure how to handle the other 8 IPOs you've listed on GLBSE in the past couple days, but I'd do up to 2k BTC. No weekly dividends you have to split between accounts, don't have to monitor all those different stores. I would not pay shipping, though (has to be shipped to US, or I could probably get a person in NZ to hold it for me). Sending PMs to me isn't reversible, and sending BTC to you isn't reversible. Can use an uninterested, well-respected party for escrow during transfers.

Cheers!

ETA: Fwiw, this was a bluff before I talked to INAU and learned OP is legit. Though... I'd definitely be interested in something like this.

Topic: GOLD Asset Backed Security (ABS) - Closed - page 2. (Read 5584 times)