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Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1034. (Read 2032266 times)

donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
August 12, 2014, 02:57:32 PM
Can someone explain to me some stuff from the following video:





About that GOFO (Gold Forward Offer Rate): What are USD loans collateralized by gold? Does it mean someone borrows USD and gives gold as collateral? If so this would mean the gold could be sold at spot price by the lender who would have to buy it again at a future point. Or he would just buy a futures contract. The spread between spot price and future contract would have to be financed by the interest on the loan. Did I understand that correctly?

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The very important features on this graph are the points when the gofo has gone negative. These are extremely important points because it is an indication that gold has gone into hiding.

What does "gold has gone into hiding" mean?
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
August 12, 2014, 02:44:12 PM
here's one i was going to pass over.  another old dude that gets it.  he actually taught me something:

"Capitalism is deflationary".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9hb0EKAcro&feature=youtu.be

Don't make me go there.

Too late...
"Time is deflationary." - NL

Wink
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
August 12, 2014, 02:31:13 PM
I have to transscribe a couple of passages from a video for you guys. I like stuff to be in writing so it's searchable and more easily quotable.

From Bitcoin is the perfect libertarian solution to the money enigma

About Shannon information and why the internet needs bitcoin

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Nick: [what was your bitcoin aha moment?]

George: I had just written "Knowledge and Power" about information theory and I figured that Shannons information theory was [the?] perfect instrument for creating a network that could efficiently transmit bits and bytes. However to have a civilization you need more than just bits and bytes. You need contracts, you need transactions, you need provable facts, you need titles, you need notarization, you need identities. You need all these other factors that really can't be accomodated very well on the internet. So you have to have banks and all these other outside channel to conduct transactions. You have this comedy of bogus contracts you're supposed to sign. I mean the internet is full of junk. And it pretends that a lot of the stuff is free, which is not. So it's a lie. It's full of lies. It's a hussle. A lot of the characterisitcs of the internet are the result of having a pure Shannon information without higher...

Nick: what is shannon information?

George: Shannon identifies information exclusively by its surprisal: unexpected bits. That's how you measure information and bandwidth across the net. And Shannon is a genius. He created the perfect theory for the network layer. And you need more than 3 layers in the network. You got to have a whole apparatus on the network in order to conduct provable transactions.

Nick: so how does Bitcoin...

George: Bitcoin is a breakthrough in information theory that allows without reference to trusted third parties (people outside the internet) provable transactions. Timestamped transactions that can't be changed.

Nick: So Bitcoin is the currency the internet deserves.

George: It's the currency the internet deserves and needs

Bitcoin tends to be deflationary. About scarcity in a world of abundance: Bitcoin and time.

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Nick: let's talk about: how is bitcoin deflationary. Because if you were lucky enough to buy bitcoin a few years ago you're wealthy now. Especiall if you take out of the internet...

Georg: Satoshi's worth a billion bucks, baby! [chuckles]

Nick: when do we get to the point where Bitcoin is no longer a speculative currency?

George: You know the speculation is a big debate over what proportion of the worlds transactions Bitcoin will finally accomodate. Bitcoin is currently undergoing a market process. But when it reaches its full maturity with 21 million coins, which is the asymtotic cap which is imposed through the algorithm itself. This means that it will tend to be deflationary.

Nick: Because there'll be more goods chasing after the same...

George: That's right. But this is life. Really the other way I came to this insight is of the "zero marginal cost society", if you heard about that... that capitalist economics doesn't work any more because we live in a world of abundance. But money can't be abundant in the same way that goods and services are. Money has to be the foundation to prioritize and evaluate. So the question is: what is scarce when everything else becomes abundant? And what is scarce when everything else is abundant is ultimately the rediual resource, which is time.

Nick: we're going from Bitcoin to time, what, how does that...

George: because the production of bitcoin is rigorously regulated by the passage of time and the pursuit of irreversability. Satoshi, all through his original paper, talks about irreversible currency. That's the big goal. And the only thing in this universe that's irreversible in this sense is time.

Libertarian economics, Milton Friedman's wet dream. Velocity vs. Money Supply. Bitcoin: the perfect solution

Quote
Nick: in a kind-of "Milton Friedman wet dream" you would have a government or a robot kicking out a certain amount of predetermined expansion of money on a regular basis no matter what.

George: an assumption of inflation. Miltion Friedman was the greates figure in libertarian economics and I don't deny it for a minute. But he did make a major error. MV = PT, that's his great formulat. The money supply times velocity equals output. But what we've learned overwhelmingly in recent years is: velocity is not a constant. Milton Friedman thought the money supply controlled. And because he thought the money supply controlled he though you had to have some centralized control of money and that the central body that controlled the emission of money should be regulated [and] accomodate economic growth.

Nick: And he was wrong in thinking that you'd need growth of the money supply in order to have economic growth?

George: Yes. And that money rules rather than velocity. He thought velocity was a constant and the money supply could be regulated by the government to actually favor outcomes. And I think that velocity rules and veolocity means we can rule. That Bitcoin as a currency on the internet, peer to peer, managed by the participants in it is the perfect libertarian solution to the money enigma.

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backward-looking reactionaries?

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Nick: How do you tell the kind-of backward-looking reactionaries who are like "it's all about gold, it's all about silver, it's all about paper currency".. should they just give up?

Gilder: Gold is still important. Gold and Bitcoin share these fundamental roots in time. They aren't chiefly governed by the capital function. Capital changes and is volatile and is not a stable source of measurement. It's time that is the source of measurement and both gold and bitcoin share this feature.

There's more, like "my book is going to be called 'Bitcoin and Gold'", but I'm done typing for now.

relevant reddit post
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
August 12, 2014, 02:14:48 PM
now i finally understand our CFPB:

"The $19.4 trillion sitting in personal retirement accounts like the 401K may be too tempting an apple for a government that is quite broke, both monetarily and morally.  The U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau director Richard Cordray recently mentioned these accounts in a recent interview, stating “That’s one of the things we’ve been exploring and are interested in, in terms of whether and what authority we have.”

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/politics-blue-collar/2013/feb/3/your-401k-about-be-nationalized/

I don't know about that.  Sounds like it is possible, if not probable, that the reporter took a quote completely out of context.  Cordray was likely ruminating on whether or not the CFPB had authority to protect (possibly insure or even educate people about) those assets.  It's a massive, massive jump from that to nationalizing them.

Technically, I suppose the gubmint could borrow against those funds, if the account holders voluntarily bought US treasuries.  I'd be more inclined to think they might incent that before they actually GRAB those funds from people involuntarily.

I'd be shocked to not see heavy means testing for retirement dispensations within the next few decades.  Appropriation of retirement accounts would be the 'cleanest' way to implement such a thing in a workable manner.



I'd be shocked to see it.  I guess we'll see.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
August 12, 2014, 02:00:19 PM
now i finally understand our CFPB:

"The $19.4 trillion sitting in personal retirement accounts like the 401K may be too tempting an apple for a government that is quite broke, both monetarily and morally.  The U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau director Richard Cordray recently mentioned these accounts in a recent interview, stating “That’s one of the things we’ve been exploring and are interested in, in terms of whether and what authority we have.”

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/politics-blue-collar/2013/feb/3/your-401k-about-be-nationalized/

I don't know about that.  Sounds like it is possible, if not probable, that the reporter took a quote completely out of context.  Cordray was likely ruminating on whether or not the CFPB had authority to protect (possibly insure or even educate people about) those assets.  It's a massive, massive jump from that to nationalizing them.

Technically, I suppose the gubmint could borrow against those funds, if the account holders voluntarily bought US treasuries.  I'd be more inclined to think they might incent that before they actually GRAB those funds from people involuntarily.

I'd be shocked to not see heavy means testing for retirement dispensations within the next few decades.  Appropriation of retirement accounts would be the 'cleanest' way to implement such a thing in a workable manner.

hero member
Activity: 722
Merit: 500
August 12, 2014, 01:59:04 PM
IMF just snuck out a new wealth tax proposal/idea

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7669824
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
August 12, 2014, 01:45:35 PM
now i finally understand our CFPB:

"The $19.4 trillion sitting in personal retirement accounts like the 401K may be too tempting an apple for a government that is quite broke, both monetarily and morally.  The U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau director Richard Cordray recently mentioned these accounts in a recent interview, stating “That’s one of the things we’ve been exploring and are interested in, in terms of whether and what authority we have.”

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/politics-blue-collar/2013/feb/3/your-401k-about-be-nationalized/

I don't know about that.  Sounds like it is possible, if not probable, that the reporter took a quote completely out of context.  Cordray was likely ruminating on whether or not the CFPB had authority to protect (possibly insure or even educate people about) those assets.  It's a massive, massive jump from that to nationalizing them.

Technically, I suppose the gubmint could borrow against those funds, if the account holders voluntarily bought US treasuries.  I'd be more inclined to think they might incent that before they actually GRAB those funds from people involuntarily.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 12, 2014, 12:37:59 PM
Break out the lube, boys  Kiss

when traderCJ speaks, _________ .

ans: BUY
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 12, 2014, 12:18:04 PM
silver leading:

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 12, 2014, 12:13:50 PM
here's one i was going to pass over.  another old dude that gets it.  he actually taught me something:

"Capitalism is deflationary".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9hb0EKAcro&feature=youtu.be
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 12, 2014, 11:47:10 AM
now i finally understand our CFPB:

"The $19.4 trillion sitting in personal retirement accounts like the 401K may be too tempting an apple for a government that is quite broke, both monetarily and morally.  The U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau director Richard Cordray recently mentioned these accounts in a recent interview, stating “That’s one of the things we’ve been exploring and are interested in, in terms of whether and what authority we have.”

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/politics-blue-collar/2013/feb/3/your-401k-about-be-nationalized/
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 12, 2014, 11:34:28 AM
so true:

“This is a political, careerist power grab on Ben Lawsky’s part and he needs to be held accountable for distracting the bitcoin community from productive efforts. Every minute spent arguing about government regulations is a minute not spent innovating and pushing the world forward.”

    “Ben Lawsky thinks he has a right to interfere with the natural evolution of block chain technology. He and everyone like him need to be shown the error of their ways, and held accountable for slowing our progress.”


http://www.coindesk.com/new-york-bitlicense-views-inside-bitcoin-industry/
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 12, 2014, 11:05:54 AM
This looks to be really good. We need to hear more from Sclichter;

http://detlevschlichter.com/book/prologue/
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 12, 2014, 10:53:33 AM
Bitcoin is experiencing waves of up and downs all the time, as Gold. But in the case of Gold those waves remain at the same levels. Bitcoin gets to all new heights. I think it's better to stick with our favourite crypto-currency!

Yep, bears have to try harder.

In order to get any true selling going they have to get it to below 554.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Honest 80s business!
August 12, 2014, 08:22:24 AM
Bitcoin is experiencing waves of up and downs all the time, as Gold. But in the case of Gold those waves remain at the same levels. Bitcoin gets to all new heights. I think it's better to stick with our favourite crypto-currency!
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
₪``Campaign Manager´´₪
August 12, 2014, 08:02:54 AM
I'm fascinated by this death-spiral as it reminds me of the movie "Black Hole" when the event horizon was being approached:

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/dogebtc

of all the alts, Dogecoin is one of the dumbest.  

Indeed, too bad you can't short it (as far as I am aware).
EDIT: the volatility spikes could be killers too for margin calls, depending on how the exchange would handle them.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 12, 2014, 07:29:26 AM
I'm fascinated by this death-spiral as it reminds me of the movie "Black Hole" when the event horizon was being approached:

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/dogebtc

of all the alts, Dogecoin is one of the dumbest. 

money is not a game. it will make ppl not only happy, but very sad.  looks to me like all the fun has worn off.  now it's time for the pain and sorrow.

Couldn't agree more. Those that manage to discover crypto only to invest in DOGE .... well, they should be a little ashamed of themselves.

MOST of the ppl investing in crypto currencies are going to lose money.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
August 12, 2014, 07:03:23 AM
I'm fascinated by this death-spiral as it reminds me of the movie "Black Hole" when the event horizon was being approached:

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/dogebtc

of all the alts, Dogecoin is one of the dumbest. 

money is not a game. it will make ppl not only happy, but very sad.  looks to me like all the fun has worn off.  now it's time for the pain and sorrow.

who could a known??
Dogecoin was a dog investment ... Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
August 12, 2014, 06:34:49 AM
I'm fascinated by this death-spiral as it reminds me of the movie "Black Hole" when the event horizon was being approached:

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/dogebtc

of all the alts, Dogecoin is one of the dumbest. 

money is not a game. it will make ppl not only happy, but very sad.  looks to me like all the fun has worn off.  now it's time for the pain and sorrow.

Couldn't agree more. Those that manage to discover crypto only to invest in DOGE .... well, they should be a little ashamed of themselves.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
August 12, 2014, 01:55:04 AM
I'm fascinated by this death-spiral as it reminds me of the movie "Black Hole" when the event horizon was being approached:

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/dogebtc

of all the alts, Dogecoin is one of the dumbest. 

money is not a game. it will make ppl not only happy, but very sad.  looks to me like all the fun has worn off.  now it's time for the pain and sorrow.
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